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Social Island, Welcome Island, pop ups that won't go away...


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26 minutes ago, portexploits said:

But by definition isn't a floater a HUD? If not, what is the difference?

In the context of SL, heads-up displays (HUDs) are objects that attach to your screen, either because you've attached it from your inventory or it's been rezzed and  temp-attached to you by script.    They are described in this Knowledge Base article.

A floater is, in the words of the WikiA dialog or window appearing in the user interface. Implemented in classes titled “LLFloater*”'.  Examples would include the inworld web browser or in-world search, as well as the Guidebook that we're discussing, and they're created by the viewer.

HUDs are objects of some kind.  Floaters are, well, floaters, and in this particular case, the Guidebook floater is opened by llOpenFloater().  

 

Edited by Quartz Mole
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7 minutes ago, Quartz Mole said:

heads-up displays (HUDs)

was an exchange in the comments over on Hamlet's blog (which I am not going to link)

in the article Hamlet said: heads-up display

a reader comments: Would have to have two heads for it to be a heads-up display. And seeing as how we only got one head then it would be a head-up display

Hamlet couldn't help himself and commented back about heads-up being the commonly recognised vernacular something something head's-up

which was pretty funny and I was like oh! man. I quite liked the person saying that need two heads to wear a heads-up display  😸

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5 minutes ago, Quartz Mole said:

In the context of SL, heads-up displays (HUDs) are objects that attach to your screen, either because you've attached it from your inventory or it's been rezzed and  temp-attached to you by script.    They are described in this Knowledge Base article.

A floater is, in the words of the WikiA dialog or window appearing in the user interface. Implemented in classes titled “LLFloater*”'.  Examples would include the inworld web browser or in-world search, as well as the Guidebook that we're discussing, and they're created by the viewer.

HUDs are objects of some kind.  Floaters are, well, floaters, and in this particular case, the Guidebook floater is opened by llOpenFloater().  

 

Okay, it seems like the keywords here are "context of SL" and "attachment." I posted a more global definition above. It mentioned that a HUD presents data to the user's viewpoint. Thus they don't have to look away to see the data. This fits the definition of a "floater."

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

was an exchange in the comments over on Hamlet's blog (which I am not going to link)

in the article Hamlet said: heads-up display

a reader comments: Would have to have two heads for it to be a heads-up display. And seeing as how we only got one head then it would be a head-up display

Hamlet couldn't help himself and commented back about heads-up being the commonly recognised vernacular something something head's-up

which was pretty funny and I was like oh! man. I quite liked the person saying that need two heads to wear a heads-up display  😸

Ha, the definition from wiki spells it correctly. "A head-up display,[1] also known as a HUD (/hʌd/), is any transparent display that presents data without requiring users to look away from their usual viewpoints."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-up_display

 

The funny thing is, HUDs in SL are not transparent. Thus by the formal definition, HUDs in SL is not even HUDs. 

Edited by portexploits
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1 hour ago, portexploits said:

Ha, the definition from wiki spells it correctly. "A head-up display,[1] also known as a HUD (/hʌd/), is any transparent display that presents data without requiring users to look away from their usual viewpoints."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-up_display

 

The funny thing is, HUDs in SL are not transparent. Thus by the formal definition, HUDs in SL is not even HUDs. 

is all getting pretty funny even more now, as if the definition is transparent then SL floaters are HUDs as they are transparent in the Linden viewer unlike dialogs which are not. And some user made HUDs are HUDs because transparent and some are not HUDs because not transparent 😸

the common usage of the term HUD in SL is that user made objects that attach to our viewer display are HUDs. We can get into the technicals of it for sure but is all about context really when we use terms and phrases

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4 hours ago, portexploits said:

But by definition isn't a floater a HUD? If not, what is the difference?

No. Totally different technology, as Quartz Mole and I have both explained.  A floater, which is managed by LL servers and your viewer's internal code, is not a HUD, which is a scripted attachment to your viewer screen. Floaters provide system-generated information like the notices that appear when a region is being restarted. They are internal to the viewer. They do not require a separate scripted attachment to the user's viewer because they are providing information directly from LL servers to the viewer. 

Linden Lab added the new llOpenFloater function so that they would have a way to provide updatable content to a viewer-generated floater without needing to upgrade the entire viewer code each time.  A script to open a floater is placed in a object in the region, not in a HUD attached to a resident's viewer screen. It uses a Linden-owned Experience to ask the viewer to display specific information like the Guidebook that is in a file -- I assume something comparable to a web page -- in the SL servers. With this new technology, LL can simply change the content of that file when it needs upgrading.

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5 hours ago, Quartz Mole said:

In the context of SL, heads-up displays (HUDs) are objects that attach to your screen, either because you've attached it from your inventory or it's been rezzed and  temp-attached to you by script.    They are described in this Knowledge Base article.

A floater is, in the words of the WikiA dialog or window appearing in the user interface. Implemented in classes titled “LLFloater*”'.  Examples would include the inworld web browser or in-world search, as well as the Guidebook that we're discussing, and they're created by the viewer.

HUDs are objects of some kind.  Floaters are, well, floaters, and in this particular case, the Guidebook floater is opened by llOpenFloater().  

 

Hmmm... the chat windows are floaters but we always called them popups because the window would just pop up in front of you like a jack in the box. 

I think it would be more accurate to say the differences lie in the purpose and in the code used to implement. Different purposes require different coding which is why we have floaters, HUDs, popups, etc. 

It doesn't happen only in SL! lol

Edited by Silent Mistwalker
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20 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

That's horrific. 

Someone had to explain the context to me, I just assumed you meant in general. I did not realize the text in the floater was part of an image. That is bad design and I hope they change that soon, I'm sure they will though.

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2 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

No. Totally different technology, as Quartz Mole and I have both explained.  A floater, which is managed by LL servers and your viewer's internal code, is not a HUD, which is a scripted attachment to your viewer screen. Floaters provide system-generated information like the notices that appear when a region is being restarted. They are internal to the viewer. They do not require a separate scripted attachment to the user's viewer because they are providing information directly from LL servers to the viewer. 

Linden Lab added the new llOpenFloater function so that they would have a way to provide updatable content to a viewer-generated floater without needing to upgrade the entire viewer code each time.  A script to open a floater is placed in a object in the region, not in a HUD attached to a resident's viewer screen. It uses a Linden-owned Experience to ask the viewer to display specific information like the Guidebook that is in a file -- I assume something comparable to a web page -- in the SL servers. With this new technology, LL can simply change the content of that file when it needs upgrading.

A floater doesn't present data to a user without the need of the user to look away?

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3 minutes ago, portexploits said:

A floater doesn't present data to a user without the need of the user to look away?

Don't be silly.  I put sticky notes on my screen sometimes to remind me that I need to go get milk at the grocery.  They clearly present data, and I put them there so that I don't have to look away to be reminded.  Does that make them HUDs?  How about the reflection of stuff that's behind me while I am looking at the screen?  You're focusing on a relatively unimportant part of a wiki definition and ignoring important distinctions about how information is triggered and displayed.

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3 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

Don't be silly.  I put sticky notes on my screen sometimes to remind me that I need to go get milk at the grocery.  They clearly present data, and I put them there so that I don't have to look away to be reminded.  Does that make them HUDs?  How about the reflection of stuff that's behind me while I am looking at the screen?  You're focusing on a relatively unimportant part of a wiki definition and ignoring important distinctions about how information is triggered and displayed.

Ha, by definition those are HUDs too. But yes, I'll agree with you that it's an unimportant distinction. 

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2 hours ago, portexploits said:

ha, do you call a square a rectangle?

Nope. I stick to the actual nomenclature unless it otherwise needs further differentiation/definition. So, HUD for things that actually are HUDs (or named as such within the confines of Second Life) and Floater or Dialog Box (among other terms) for parts of the system/program UI.

ETA: Here's an example of what can be classified as a HUD outside of SL/Computer Nomenclature and here's some program Dialog Boxes.

Done?

Edited by Solar Legion
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2 hours ago, portexploits said:

ha, do you call a square a rectangle?

If I can be forgiven for continuing the tangent, I often call rectangles squares. I am 'by the book' incorrect when doing so, but most reasonable people can infer from context that by "square" I might intend 'equiangular quadrilateral with side-length ratio smaller than 2:1'

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39 minutes ago, Quistess Alpha said:

If I can be forgiven for continuing the tangent, I often call rectangles squares. I am 'by the book' incorrect when doing so, but most reasonable people can infer from context that by "square" I might intend 'equiangular quadrilateral with side-length ratio smaller than 2:1'

Well. Just get technical about it why don't you. 😏🤭

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6 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Hmmm... the chat windows are floaters but we always called them popups because the window would just pop up in front of you like a jack in the box. 

I think it would be more accurate to say the differences lie in the purpose and in the code used to implement. Different purposes require different coding which is why we have floaters, HUDs, popups, etc. 

It doesn't happen only in SL! lol

How about this?

Can I use the edit tool to select this thing that's appeared on my screen as if it's attached to it? 

If "Yes,"  it's a HUD.

If "No," it's a floater.

 

Edited by Innula Zenovka
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1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said:

How about this?

Can I use the edit tool to select this thing that's appeared on my screen as if it's attached to it? 

If "Yes,"  it's a HUD.

If "No," it's a floater.

 

KISS!

I love it! 😊

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On 7/16/2021 at 8:00 PM, Galaxy Littlepaws said:

You can open Google Translate on your smartphone or tablet (if you have one) and use the camera and it will read it for you that way. I've done this in the real world and on my PC screen for cases where I could not copy/paste and it's very helpful.

Thanks for that.   I didn't realise you can do this, and certainly I've wished a few times recently that it was possible.   Now I know it is.    I looked it up, and Google explain all about it:   https://support.google.com/translate/answer/6142483

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On 7/17/2021 at 6:37 AM, portexploits said:

 

The funny thing is, HUDs in SL are not transparent. Thus by the formal definition, HUDs in SL is not even HUDs. 

Says who? A HUD in SL can be transparent; many HUD's have portions that are.

 

On 7/17/2021 at 12:58 PM, portexploits said:

ha, do you call a square a rectangle?

A square is a rectangle, as it's a geometric shape with all corners being 90 degrees.

This, of course, ignores the fact that words are often used and understood for cases that aren't their most common definitions. For example, say... "jackass."

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On 7/15/2021 at 8:33 AM, portexploits said:

I have encounter this issue in Social Island. I go there and get a blue pop-up on my screen. Sometimes I can right-click on it and detach it, sometimes I can not. I have to restart. The viewer I use is Firestorm. I am trying to help someone and they have one of these pop-ups on their screen for four months. She has restarted and it's still there. I thought maybe she had her home set to "Welcome Island." She doe snot. This is the pop up on her screen.

https://prnt.sc/1bc11cz

 

How do we remove these type of pop-ups?

I am an old player in SL, and I am used to how to remove information on the screen. Rightclick and detach.

So when a new way of removing the pop-up is introduced, how do we older users know it? So trying to be helpful when we use what we learnt, does not work. At least you and I know about the Forum and can post here.

And I read the posts you got that goes like this "You should have read here" "It is a blogpost there" "Read all the pages and follow the instructions to the end" "Click around until you find the right place to click" "3 minutes is not a long time".

Very few people search so much that they find that kernel of information they need.

I really applaud you for helping people. ❤️

It is amazing how much information I don't find. Even if I love to read.

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  • 1 month later...
On 7/15/2021 at 12:03 PM, portexploits said:

I have encounter this issue in Social Island. I go there and get a blue pop-up on my screen. Sometimes I can right-click on it and detach it, sometimes I can not. I have to restart. The viewer I use is Firestorm. I am trying to help someone and they have one of these pop-ups on their screen for four months. She has restarted and it's still there. I thought maybe she had her home set to "Welcome Island." She doe snot. This is the pop up on her screen.

https://prnt.sc/1bc11cz

 

How do we remove these type of pop-ups?

If you still haven't found the answer for this, I had the same issue and have figured out the solution. Instead of the non-help we've got from everyone else. I will help, so others don't have this issue like I did, because it seems like it pops up for every new player that joins in the firestorm viewer. And it's most certainly not easy for a new player to figure out in such a complicated game.

For the SL Viewer, it's simple.

As it says in the guidebook itself, you just click on the "Guidebook question mark icon" or you click Help Menu, Guidebook.

But for the Firestorm Viewer, you do this.

Avatar menu > Toolbar buttons - find the guidebook button, drag it to any toolbar(the one at the bottom works) then click the button to disable the popup. 

Then you can right-click the button and select 'remove' to get rid of the guidebook button altogether if you like.

I do believe this should fix the issue, but if it still doesn't, Click Help, Join Firestorm Support Group, and ask in the group chat.

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What I would like to know is where are all these new people finding out about FS before they ever even make an account? Truly new people aren't going to know about TPVs and will be using the LL official viewer. And why aren't they reading the FS documentation that has been available for 10 years?

There are a number of FS support groups to join so you can choose your language.

Quote

Then there is the wiki: start [Phoenix Firestorm Project - Wiki] (firestormviewer.org)

Troubleshooting: firestorm_troubleshooting [Phoenix Firestorm Project - Wiki] (firestormviewer.org)

They even have their own JIRA System Dashboard - Firestorm Bug Tracker (firestormviewer.org)

It's not hard to find help, if you just look for it and ask nicely.

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On 9/3/2021 at 8:13 AM, Silent Mistwalker said:

What I would like to know is where are all these new people finding out about FS before they ever even make an account?

Others, like anyone who makes Alts are not new people, and still make new accounts.  Since most of us use Firestorm, we would have no way of figuring out how to get rid of that damn Guidebook.  Not everyone searches this forum or lives here, or reads the latest updates for the SL viewer, etc.

When I first posted in this thread 2 months ago, I was making a new alt and decided to see what the new user experience was, so I logged in with their latest SL viewer.  I ended up in Welcome Island, and getting rid of that Guidebook was my first priority.  It took me 15 mins to figure out there was a new toolbar button called Guidebook, and pressing it toggled the guidebook window off.  At least a newbie could do it with enough reading and poking, assuming the newbie was old, a GUI programmer, patient as a priest, and had a strong bladder.   Noobs are sometimes actually young and inpatient, something SL doesn't understand.

But when I switched to Firestorm, before I got out of the Welcome Island the guidebook was gone - not yet added to FS.  So I forgot about it

Yesterday I accidently hit a landmark I had made for Welcome Back Island, and besides being blinded by the overbright landscape, saw that Guidebook again.  I remembered from what I posted here 2 months ago that you had to scroll thru all the guide sections to get to the end, or click on the 3-line control icon to get the Menu.  On the botton of the menu it says Click the Guidebook button on the bottom toolbar.  But their is no Guidebook button on the bottom toolbar in FS. It is not a default button.  I remembered something about clicking on help, the ? or F1 key. "?" brings up a menu on loading drivers for Windows from Firestorm Help.  F1 key opens up the Chrome Browser Help page.  Can't close the Guidebook using F1 key, and Guidebook button is missing in Firestorm toolbar.

Of course having used Firestorm for the last 10 years, I checked the Toolbar Buttons window and dragged the NEW Guidebook button to the lower toolbar, and finally closed the damn guidebook popup.

Somehow I don't think a new user, and most oldtime users would remember all this - since the Guidebook is only a few months old.

Just giving a real example to add to what BuddyDClown posted earlier for old Firestorm users.  If it could happen to me, it could happen to anyone!

SL assumes everyone uses their viewer.  Then they wonder about attrition.

PS, The F1 keyboard key does kill the box if you first highlight it with your mouse and then press F1. Of course, that was so obvious, how could I be so dense.

Did I mention there is no mention of the F1 key in their guidebook menu.

 

Edited by Jaylinbridges
added something in bold :)
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And 12 years ago, it took me awhile to get rid of the red arrow from.the map.  I survived.  Managed to get rid of system hair I tried to make, too.   Still logging in. Moaned about setting up EEP and that whole mess.  Figured it out.  Everything that comes along, you either figure out or give up.  Or come here and whine.

 

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