Social Island, Welcome Island, pop ups that won't go away...

[portexploits]

12 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

That's not the guidebook, and it's not what you posted in your first post.  That window has opened when you go to Social Island for the past couple of years.  It detaches automatically when you leave.

 

10 minutes ago, MoiraKathleen said:

This is a different thing than the guidebook that was very recently implemented, and what is shown in your original post.   

For the item in this screen shot, which is supposed to detach itself when you leave the area, the suggestions at the very top of this thread dealt with removing it when it didn't do so on its own.  

I think guidebook with its directions about how to detach it, the toolbar button and the menu bar option is an improvement.      

I was demonstrating how those linden HUDs are not always responsive. Yes, it should detach when I leave the island, but there have been many times it has been stuck on my screen regardless of where I am. I have to restart to get rid of it. My point is, the HUD in the OP and the HUD from social island are both linden HUDs. They can be problematic. Because I couldn't get to the next step, maybe the person who I was helping couldn't go to the next page or step for the same reason that I couldn't.

[Rolig Loon]

2 minutes ago, portexploits said:

My point is, the HUD in the OP and the HUD from social island are both linden HUDs. They can be problematic. Because I couldn't get to the next step, maybe the person who I was helping couldn't go to the next page or step for the same reason that I couldn't.

That's a decent point, although you leapt to the assumption that your problem with the Social Island HUD and the new Guidebook (which is not a HUD) are related.  They aren't, as several people have now pointed out.  You've mixed up two things and confused the conversation here.

If the Social Island HUD isn't detaching for you, the suggestions that people have posted in this thread ought to work. If they don't, see what happens when you use the standard SL viewer.   If the problem doesn't occur then (I'm pretty sure it won't), my bet is that your copy of Firestorm is damaged and needs updating/replacing.  Give it a shot.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, MoiraKathleen said:

True, but I did scroll through it when it was first introduced in the LL viewer and it's not a lot to read if I remember correctly (and it's definitely easier to read than instructions for other things in-world which are presented on notecards). If you are truly brand new,  it's all useful things you should know if you're planning on leaving welcome island. 

If you're not truly brand new, you can click the tool bar button or the menu bar option to close it. 

But, Mousie, thou art no thy-lane,
In proving foresight may be vain;
The best-laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft agley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
For promis'd joy!

~Robert Burns

 

Translation:

But Mouse, you are not alone,
In proving foresight may be vain:
The best-laid schemes of mice and men
Go oft awry,
And leave us nothing but grief and pain,
For promised joy!

Edited July 16, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker

[portexploits]

3 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

That's a decent point, although you leapt to the assumption that your problem with the Social Island HUD and the new Guidebook (which is not a HUD) are related.  They aren't, as several people have now pointed out.  You've mixed up two things and confused the conversation here.

If the Social Island HUD isn't detaching for you, the suggestions that people have posted in this thread ought to work. If they don't, see what happens when you use the standard SL viewer.   If the problem doesn't occur then (I'm pretty sure it won't), my bet is that your copy of Firestorm is damaged and needs updating/replacing.  Give it a shot.

"A head-up display,[1] also known as a HUD (/hʌd/), is any transparent display that presents data without requiring users to look away from their usual viewpoints."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-up_display

 

Both of those HUDs(Heads-UP Display) are from linden lands(guides/welcome centers) whatever you want to call them. Honestly, it probably modified code from the Social Island HUD. Thus, both of these HUDs are made by the same company, and more than likely have the same issues or bugs. It's fair to compare them the way I did.

 

Thanks for your feedback on my Firestorm. But I have known many people who have had the same issue that I have had with the Social Island HUD. I doubt it's a Firestorm issue. 

[MoiraKathleen]

27 minutes ago, portexploits said:

Both of those HUDs(Heads-UP Display) are from linden lands(guides/welcome centers) whatever you want to call them. Honestly, it probably modified code from the Social Island HUD. Thus, both of these HUDs are made by the same company, and more than likely have the same issues or bugs. It's fair to compare them the way I did.

However, on the first page of this thread Quartz Mole stated that it was not the same type of HUD, and that it's not attached nor detached from the screen like we generally think of HUD's being, but it is a floater window.   

I think it's a feature of the viewer rather than something just associated with "linden lands" like the social island HUD was, because if you have the latest LL viewer, you can open and browse through the guide book no matter where you are in SL by using the F1 key, the Guidebook menu option from the Help menu, or the guidebook toolbar button, and then close it by using its menu option or toolbar button.  It's available to me in the LL viewer, even though I have not been to the welcome island or social islands for years. 

It's very possible that this new Guidebook functionality is not in the FS viewer yet, as they don't release updates very often.  It is in the latest Kokua viewer, as a toolbar button option, as Kokua tracks fairly closely to changes made in the LL viewer, generally doing an update and release after each LL viewer update and release.

 

 

[Rolig Loon]

27 minutes ago, MoiraKathleen said:

However, on the first page of this thread Quartz Mole stated that it was not the same type of HUD, and that it's not attached nor detached from the screen like we generally think of HUD's being, but it is a floater window.   

I think it's a feature of the viewer rather than something just associated with "linden lands" like the social island HUD was, because if you have the latest LL viewer, you can open and browse through the guide book no matter where you are in SL by using the F1 key, the Guidebook menu option from the Help menu, or the guidebook toolbar button, and then close it by using its menu option or toolbar button.

👍  Read the Release notes for the current SL standard viewer 6.4.20.560520

[MoiraKathleen]

21 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

👍  Read the Release notes for the current SL standard viewer 6.4.20.560520

I was actually pleasantly pleased with the UI enhancements and the Guidebook functionality that were made in this current version.

[Mollymews]

8 hours ago, portexploits said:

I clicked this one about ten to twenty times and it's not responsive.
https://gyazo.com/3153f589067298cd5277c8bf7b8b6350

this is the HUD system from the Social Island. Which can sometimes not auto-detach. It can also not auto-attach sometimes. Which is what I was going on about before

as has been mentioned the pic you initially posted is the new Guidebook system, which Quartz Mole explained about earlier also

[Mollymews]

4 hours ago, MoiraKathleen said:

However, on the first page of this thread Quartz Mole stated that it was not the same type of HUD, and that it's not attached nor detached from the screen like we generally think of HUD's being, but it is a floater window.   

I think it's a feature of the viewer rather than something just associated with "linden lands" like the social island HUD was, because if you have the latest LL viewer, you can open and browse through the guide book no matter where you are in SL by using the F1 key, the Guidebook menu option from the Help menu, or the guidebook toolbar button, and then close it by using its menu option or toolbar button.  It's available to me in the LL viewer, even though I have not been to the welcome island or social islands for years

i think it has something to do with this new LSL function http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlOpenFloater

which ended up being restricted to Linden use only

a discussion about it all is here

 

[Noelle Delaunay]

I think there needs to be an easy option to skip the tutorial and leave the island immediately, and also an easy option to return.

Yes, objectively it doesn't make sense to skip the tutorial for a new player, but I'm looking at myself here as an example and I tend to be extremely impatient and unforgiving when it's about a new game and getting to know it. There can be one little thing that frustrates me and makes me feel I'm stuck and I may be out. When I was visiting the island recently I was IMed with the question where a specific icon was that was required for the tutorial to proceed. This might very well be the perfect situation that would leave me feeling stuck and I'm gone. If in that case I were told like "But if you want to continue the tutorial at a later time you can just open the search/map and leave") it would probably increase my chances to stay. When I did the tutorial recently I didn't feel like I had this opportunity.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Noelle Delaunay

[Jaylinbridges]

18 hours ago, Claireschen Hesten said:

If your friend wants Welcome Island without the pop-up/HUD doozy coming up every time based on Quartz Mole's pic Welcome Back Island is the exact same place no pop-ups and very quiet

Not my experience.  Every time I enter the Welcome Back Island, the Guidebook pops up on your screen. 

You don't get a popup with Firestorm, since it''s not in their viewer.  

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[Innula Zenovka]

8 hours ago, portexploits said:

Honestly, it probably modified code from the Social Island HUD. Thus, both of these HUDs are made by the same company, and more than likely have the same issues or bugs.

Guess you missed the memo (and the discussion at the time)

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlOpenFloater

ETA -- I hadn't read to the end of the thread  before posting this, so I didn't see it had previously been pointed out by Mollymews and Rolig, but the point still stands.

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Innula Zenovka

[Coffee Pancake]

On 7/15/2021 at 7:47 AM, Quartz Mole said:

  

You get rid of the guidebook by toggling the Guidebook button on the button bar at the bottom of the main viewer window, as shown below.

If you log out with the Guidebook turned off, then you won't see it again until the next time you visit Welcome Back Island (not Social Island, I think).

 

Toolbar buttons have poor usability. Are easily removed. May not exist in the default toolbar on all viewers. They need to be explicitly pointed out, especially to new users.

Usability depends in large part on a shared language of computer UI and video games in general. Toolbar buttons around the edge of the screen are not a common part of this shared language and when used in games are explicitly given their own tutorial steps (typically presenting them one by one and making their introduction visually elaborate).

In lieu of other systems, I would suggest adding a JIRA to make the guidebook button highlight orange (like chat & conversations) when the guidebook is shown. The first page of the guidebook needs to be "How to show and dismiss the guidebook".

The current system depends on and leverages assumptions about new users ability to look at the SL UI and not only understand what does what, but find the thing they need to interact with. 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Coffee Pancake

[Jaylinbridges]

31 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The first page of the guidebook needs to be "How to show and dismiss the guidebook".

The entire purpose of the Welcome Island is to use the guidebook to learn a few SL basics.  Why would someone want to dismiss the guidebook first thing?  There is nothing else to do on the island.  So now we have newbies dismissing the guidebook floater, and then saying Help I Am Lost - why am I here?  This is so boring - all there is to do in  SL is sitting on a bench?

And ooh look!  A sign right in the middle of the courtyard telling you to click the Destination Guide icon, in nine languages even!

I feel sorry for all the LL staff trying to improve the new user experience, and getting nothing but criticism in this forum. 

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Jaylinbridges said:

And ooh look!  A sign right in the middle of the courtyard telling you to click the Destination Guide icon, in nine languages even!

 

About that ....

鲍勃想成为你的朋友！对鲍勃好一点！

😃朋友 😃amigo 😃caraid 😃သူငယ်ချင်း 😃friend 😃hoa 😃przyjaciel 😃amica

 

 

[Jaylinbridges]

7 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

鲍勃想成为你的朋友！对鲍勃好一点

You can never have too many Bob friends.

[Coffee Pancake]

37 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

You can never have too many Bob friends.

But you can't copy and paste text into google translate from a picture in world.

[Whirly Fizzle]

This will be fun for all the poor noobs who have media fail because their antivirus blocked slplugin & dullahan. They won't be able to read the instructions for how to open & close the guidebook, they will just see a blank window with no obvious way to get rid of it.

[Galaxy Littlepaws]

5 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

But you can't copy and paste text into google translate from a picture in world.

You can open Google Translate on your smartphone or tablet (if you have one) and use the camera and it will read it for you that way. I've done this in the real world and on my PC screen for cases where I could not copy/paste and it's very helpful.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Galaxy Littlepaws

[Coffee Pancake]

9 minutes ago, Galaxy Littlepaws said:

You can open Google Translate on your smartphone or tablet (if you have one) and use the camera and it will read it for you that way. I've done this in the real world and on my PC screen for cases where I could not copy/paste and it's very helpful.

That's horrific. 

[portexploits]

8 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Guess you missed the memo (and the discussion at the time)

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlOpenFloater

ETA -- I hadn't read to the end of the thread  before posting this, so I didn't see it had previously been pointed out by Mollymews and Rolig, but the point still stands.

 

I haven't seen any mention of code in the discussion. Maybe I missed it. If you're implying that it's new code. That is possible, but it's not common practice among professionals. I don't know how the pop-up at Welcome Island was created.  They could have built it from scratch, but highly unlikely.

[Rolig Loon]

8 minutes ago, portexploits said:

I haven't seen any mention of code in the discussion. Maybe I missed it. If you're implying that it's new code. That is possible, but it's not common practice among professionals. I don't know how the pop-up at Welcome Island was created.  They could have built it from scratch, but highly unlikely.

The links are all there in the posts in this thread.  Take time to read them.  Yes indeed, the Guidebook does make use of new LSL functions that scripters discussed in the Scripting forum earlier this summer.  It's totally new code.  As I noted twice now, the new functionality was introduced in the latest standard viewer.  Firestorm hasn't updated theirs yet, so it doesn't work there.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Rolig Loon
Additional information

[Quartz Mole]

2 hours ago, portexploits said:

I haven't seen any mention of code in the discussion. Maybe I missed it. If you're implying that it's new code. That is possible, but it's not common practice among professionals. I don't know how the pop-up at Welcome Island was created.  They could have built it from scratch, but highly unlikely.

I scripted the Learning and Social Island HUDs, and also worked on Welcome Island. 

The LISI HUDs are HUDs that attach to you, and the floater on Welcome Island is a floater, opened  using the new llOpenFloater function, which written for that particular use case, though it may, of course, be used in the future for other projects.   There were practical and technical considerations behind the decision to use a floater, not a HUD, for Welcome Island.

They may look similar but they're two completely different things.

ETA:  I see I mentioned this before in the thread, though not in reply to you directly.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Quartz Mole

[portexploits]

12 hours ago, Quartz Mole said:

I scripted the Learning and Social Island HUDs, and also worked on Welcome Island. 

The LISI HUDs are HUDs that attach to you, and the floater on Welcome Island is a floater, opened  using the new llOpenFloater function, which written for that particular use case, though it may, of course, be used in the future for other projects.   There were practical and technical considerations behind the decision to use a floater, not a HUD, for Welcome Island.

They may look similar but they're two completely different things.

ETA:  I see I mentioned this before in the thread, though not in reply to you directly.

But by definition isn't a floater a HUD? If not, what is the difference?

[portexploits]

13 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

The links are all there in the posts in this thread.  Take time to read them.  Yes indeed, the Guidebook does make use of new LSL functions that scripters discussed in the Scripting forum earlier this summer.  It's totally new code.  As I noted twice now, the new functionality was introduced in the latest standard viewer.  Firestorm hasn't updated theirs yet, so it doesn't work there.

Okay.