Social Island, Welcome Island, pop ups that won't go away...

[ChinRey]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

As we haven't seen tons of people coming in to ask.this same question, I'm going to stick with my response.   It's obviously not that difficult.

Most of them won't ask, they'll just leave and never return.

One thing that would be itneresting to know here: I assume whoever are responsible for the new newcomer area are not totally incompetent so they will have tried it out on a test panel of ordinary people with no SL experience before it went live. How did those tests go?

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

Most of them won't ask, they'll just leave and never return.

One thing that would be itneresting to know here: I assume whoever are responsible for the new newcomer area are not totally incompetent so they will have tried it out on a test panel of ordinary people with no SL experience before it went live. How did those tests go?

I doubt they will all leave.  However, if they are vexed by something as simple as removing a popup, the rest of SL would be a nightmare for them anyway.  

I hadn't used an SL viewer in almost 12 years.  I ran it the other day and created an alt just to check out the new user experience.  I got the popup hud.  It took.maybe 2 or 3 minutes of poking around to get rid of it.  Even though I've been here awhile, it was a totally new experience for me just as it would be for a new user.

Let's not make a mountain out of a Mole hill.

[Moondira]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I ran it the other day and created an alt just to check out the new user experience.  I got the popup hud.  It took.maybe 2 or 3 minutes of poking around to get rid of it.

Two or three minutes to close a window? That's a crazy amount of time. Instructional aspects of the game should be as simple as possible. I'd leave a game in only one minute if I couldn't close a simple window.

[ChinRey]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

I got the popup hud.  It took.maybe 2 or 3 minutes of poking around to get rid of it.  Even though I've been here awhile, it was a totally new experience for me just as it would be for a new user.

But you were prepared for it. Double that time for somebody who isn't. And you're familiar with the quirks of SL. Double that time again for somebody who isn't. And remember what Moondira said, even a minute of distraction can be a mahor turnoff for somebody who isn't already very motivated.

I'm not speculating here btw. This happens to be one of the few times when SL meets my RL professions. I have a dual conservatory level degree in music and education and I've worked as a combined music teacher and performer for more years than I'm willing to admit I've lived. I know very well both from my education and from my work experience how fickle a human's attention can be, how to get their attention and how to loose it. I've even done special studies and published papers on the topic.

But this is no skin off my nose and I don't think I'm going to spend mopre time discussing it here. So have a lovely day and weekend everybody and see you in another thread.

Edited July 15, 2021 by ChinRey

[Innula Zenovka]

2 hours ago, ChinRey said:

Most of them won't ask, they'll just leave and never return.

One thing that would be itneresting to know here: I assume whoever are responsible for the new newcomer area are not totally incompetent so they will have tried it out on a test panel of ordinary people with no SL experience before it went live. How did those tests go?

Since there are green dots showing on both Welcome and Learning Island still, I would imagine that LL will, over the next few weeks be comparing the numbers who first log in on Learning Island and on the new Welcome Island to see how many from each cohort ever return, to see which performs better.

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Innula Zenovka

[Rowan Amore]

5 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

But you were prepared for it. Duuble that time for somebody who isn't. And you're familiar with the quirks of SL. Double that time again for somebody who isn't. And remember what Moondira said, even a minute of distraction can be a mahor turnoff for somebody who isn't already very motivated.

I'm not speculating here btw. This happens to be one of the few times when SL meets my RL professions. I have a dual conservatory level degree in music and education and I've worked as a combined music teacher and performer for more years than I'm willing to admit I've lived. I know very well both from my education and from my work experience how fickle a human's attention can be, how to get their attention and how to loose it. I've even done special studies and published papers on the topic.

But this is no skin off my nose and I don't think I'm going to spend mopre time discussing it here. So have a lovely day and weekend everybody and see you in another thread.

I was NOT prepared for it at all.  Nada.  As I said,.there will be countless things to encounter in SL that will be.much more difficult.  I recall it taking me quite some time to open that first box, copying it into inventory, simply finding my inventory to open it and then OMG, wearing just one layer and not the undershirt, shirt AND jacket.  This is from someone with absolutely NO online experience.  Not one game, ever.  Yet, I muddled through somehow.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Moondira said:

Two or three minutes to close a window? That's a crazy amount of time. Instructional aspects of the game should be as simple as possible. I'd leave a game in only one minute if I couldn't close a simple window.

Short attention span?  Gotcha.  A lot of people have trouble focusing.

[Rowan Amore]

What I did like was the 'follow your cursor' addition.  I had more fun with that which is probably why I wasn't bothered so much by the popup.

[Moondira]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

1 hour ago, Moondira said:

Two or three minutes to close a window? That's a crazy amount of time. Instructional aspects of the game should be as simple as possible. I'd leave a game in only one minute if I couldn't close a simple window.

Short attention span?  Gotcha.  A lot of people have trouble focusing.

Short attention span? Hardly. I have a high IQ and a sharp mind, if I don't say so myself. If it took an entire 3 minutes to close a window there would be gross inefficiency in the instructional method.

You did make me wonder something via claiming I have a defective mind, and that is, could it be something is wrong with your mind in that it took you 3 minutes to close a window?

It appears I need to make an alt and check out this new user experience for myself.

[Moondira]

12 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I was NOT prepared for it at all.  Nada.  As I said,.there will be countless things to encounter in SL that will be.much more difficult.  I recall it taking me quite some time to open that first box, copying it into inventory, simply finding my inventory to open it and then OMG, wearing just one layer and not the undershirt, shirt AND jacket.  This is from someone with absolutely NO online experience.  Not one game, ever.  Yet, I muddled through somehow.

The worst thing you can do in life, be it designing applications for others or related to life in general, is to assume everybody is  or should be just like you.

[Rowan Amore]

6 minutes ago, Moondira said:

Short attention span? Hardly. I have a high IQ and a sharp mind, if I don't say so myself. If it took an entire 3 minutes to close a window there would be gross inefficiency in the instructional method.

You did make me wonder something via claiming I have a defective mind, and that is, could it be something is wrong with your mind in that it took you 3 minutes to close a window?

It appears I need to make an alt and check out this new user experience for myself.

I was also looking at what else was in the viewer, Luna...I mean Moondira.  As I hadn't been on it in years, I also was.looking at what was in preferences as compared to what's in firestorm.  The popup wasn't that big of a deal really.  I imagine a lot of new people also do as I did and look through the various menus.

Yeah, I have a high IQ and a sharp mind, too.  I pay attention.  Make an alt.  That's kind of funny.

I didn't actually time it btw.  I wasn't bothered by it.  I closed it when my poking around showed me where.  Not a big deal.

Anyway, carry on with your "end a post with a question" routine.  I won't be answering.

 

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Rowan Amore

[Moondira]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

I was also looking at what else was in the viewer, Luna...I mean Moondira.  As I hadn't been on it in years, I also was.looking at what was in preferences as compared to what's in firestorm.  The popup wasn't that big of a deal really.  I imagine a lot of new people also do as I did and look through the various menus.

Yeah, I have a high IQ and a sharp mind, too.  I pay attention.  Make an alt.  That's kind of funny.

First you thought I was Arielle, and now Luna. Did you know it's against the rules to out people's alts here? Don't worry, I will not report you, but you should know you are breaking the rules.

It takes more than a high IQ to create an interface though. It takes empathy and and a more fluid mind that can go back and experience what it was like to be new. You don't have that.  Someone like a good roleplayer, actress, mother, or teacher would fit the bill. Too many interfaces are created by scripters.

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Moondira said:

First you thought I was Arielle, and now Luna. Did you know it's against the rules to out people's alts here? Don't worry, I will not report you, but you should know you are breaking the rules.

It takes more than a high IQ to create an interface though. It takes empathy and and a more fluid mind that can go back and experience what it was like to be new. You don't have that.  Someone like a good roleplayer, actress, mother, or teacher would fit the bill. Too many interfaces are created by scripters.

Never said you were Arielle.  It would only be considered outing an alt if YOU or anyone specifically told me that information which no one has.  Until now apparently.  I'm just guessing so no rule broken.  As Luna and Moon are  basically the same word coupled with writing style, it was kind of an educated guess.  Trust me, I'm not the only one who sees it.

The interface in the new viewer is no more difficult than when I started.  In fact, it seems easier.  Again, it's a simple pop up window that, so far, two people had an issue closing.  Empathy has nothing to do with it.  No one who has used any viewer can see the new viewer objectively.  What's in your mind is there whether you think you're coming at it without prejudice, you are and will.  

Will they change aspects of it?  Maybe so.  I guess we'll wait and see.

[MoiraKathleen]

Looking at the contents of the guidebook in the 2 screenshots posted here, I would imagine that a completely brand new user to SL would probably read and click through the "next" buttons on the guidebook until the end, where there was information about how to remove it from the screen.  Honestly, if a new user doesn't have the attention span to at least cursorily scroll through the guidebook, then I would wonder if they will have enough attention span and focus once they get in-world to do anything worthwhile or interesting.  

I have a feeling that the guidebook is much more irritating to old users creating new alts than to brand new users.  

[Moondira]

39 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

The interface in the new viewer is no more difficult than when I started.  In fact, it seems easier.  Again, it's a simple pop up window that, so far, two people had an issue closing.  Empathy has nothing to do with it.  No one who has used any viewer can see the new viewer objectively.  What's in your mind is there whether you think you're coming at it without prejudice, you are and will. 

I have no opinion about the interface in the new viewer. Nor do I have experience with this pop-up window. But I do know that if 2 people had an issue with it there are bound to be many, many more. Not everyone is comfortable posting on a forum, and many inworld residents are unaware of the website and forum. But you keep bringing up the idea that it must not be a problem because only 2 people complained. This is not the evidence you believe it is.

A good interface has everything to do with the empathy inherent in the designer of an interface, or with the ability of the designer to work with others who embody such empathy and make appropriate changes. I never said all prejudice could be removed, but with focused effort there is the possibility of understanding the new user experience to a great degree. It's what all good teachers do in order to teach children at the level they are at, but like I said, it takes effort and is never perfect.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Moondira

[portexploits]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

I was NOT prepared for it at all.  Nada.  As I said,.there will be countless things to encounter in SL that will be.much more difficult.  I recall it taking me quite some time to open that first box, copying it into inventory, simply finding my inventory to open it and then OMG, wearing just one layer and not the undershirt, shirt AND jacket.  This is from someone with absolutely NO online experience.  Not one game, ever.  Yet, I muddled through someho

 

 

 

No you're missing the point. It's not about being difficult or not. I can easily tell you calculus isn't difficult. But you might disagree. As stated, this person has right-clicked on it, tried to "detach" it for months. That's the common thing to do with HUDs. They recently checked experiences, with my help, and that didn't work either. We tried changing home locations, and many other things to no avail. Some of these things that we have done are a lot more "complicated' than the things you said.

I am a software engineer, I write scripts for SL as well. I didn't even know how to get rid of it. I found the solution by coming here.  It's not about people being dumb or not. It's just a poorly designed system.

Edited July 15, 2021 by portexploits

[Rolig Loon]

2 minutes ago, portexploits said:

As stated, this person has right clicked on it, tried to "detach" it for months.

Impossible.  The new Welcome Island only appeared on the grid for the first time a little over a week ago.  The person is exaggerating.

4 minutes ago, portexploits said:

We tried changing home locations, and many other things to no avail. Some of these things we done are a lot more "complicated' then things you are even stating.

And never thought to look at the menu, where it tells you exactly how to turn the guidebook off?

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Rolig Loon said:

And never thought to look at the menu, where it tells you exactly how to turn the guidebook off?

Or as @MoiraKathleenmentioned, click to the end where it tells you how to take if off.  I found the other way by flipping thru the menus.  This is what Welcome.Island is for as I understand it.  To take time and learn the interface.  Like we all did.  

[portexploits]

6 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

Impossible.  The new Welcome Island only appeared on the grid for the first time a little over a week ago.  The person is exaggerating.

And never thought to look at the menu, where it tells you exactly how to turn the guidebook off?

The picture that was presented to me is in the original post. There is no mention of the toolbar. Also, sometimes that HUD that pops up at Social Island is non-responsive.  I have even tried to go through the entire "guide" to get rid of that pop-up and was not responsive.  That might be true for the person I was trying to help as well. Meaning, maybe they couldn't go through the pages of the guide. I don't know.

Edited July 15, 2021 by portexploits

[portexploits]

I clicked this one about ten to twenty times and it's not responsive.
https://gyazo.com/3153f589067298cd5277c8bf7b8b6350

[Rolig Loon]

2 minutes ago, portexploits said:

The picture that was presented to me is in the original post. There is no mention of the toolbar. Also, sometimes that HUD that pops up at Social Island is non-responsive.  I have even tried to go through the entire "guide" to get rid of that pop-up it just didn't respond.  That might be true for the person I was trying to help as well.

Fine, except that :

1. The guidebook does not open automatically on Social Island.  It opens on Welcome Island (if you are using the current standard viewer, you can open it yourself by clicking the button on the toolbar or the F1 key).

2. The guidebook ( the image in your OP) didn't even exist until Welcome Island appeared for the first time, about a week ago.  

[Rolig Loon]

3 minutes ago, portexploits said:

I clicked this one about ten to twenty times and it's not responsive.
https://gyazo.com/3153f589067298cd5277c8bf7b8b6350

That's not the guidebook, and it's not what you posted in your first post.  That window has opened when you go to Social Island for the past couple of years.  It detaches automatically when you leave.

[Silent Mistwalker]

45 minutes ago, MoiraKathleen said:

Looking at the contents of the guidebook in the 2 screenshots posted here, I would imagine that a completely brand new user to SL would probably read and click through the "next" buttons on the guidebook until the end, where there was information about how to remove it from the screen.  Honestly, if a new user doesn't have the attention span to at least cursorily scroll through the guidebook, then I would wonder if they will have enough attention span and focus once they get in-world to do anything worthwhile or interesting.  

I have a feeling that the guidebook is much more irritating to old users creating new alts than to brand new users.  

Maybe it isn't attention span but a limited amount of time to spend.

[MoiraKathleen]

3 minutes ago, portexploits said:

I clicked this one about ten to twenty times and it's not responsive.
https://gyazo.com/3153f589067298cd5277c8bf7b8b6350

This is a different thing than the guidebook that was very recently implemented, and what is shown in your original post.   

For the item in this screen shot, which is supposed to detach itself when you leave the area, the suggestions at the very top of this thread dealt with removing it when it didn't do so on its own.  

I think guidebook with its directions about how to detach it, the toolbar button and the menu bar option is an improvement.      

[MoiraKathleen]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Maybe it isn't attention span but a limited amount of time to spend.

True, but I did scroll through it when it was first introduced in the LL viewer and it's not a lot to read if I remember correctly (and it's definitely easier to read than instructions for other things in-world which are presented on notecards). If you are truly brand new,  it's all useful things you should know if you're planning on leaving welcome island. 

If you're not truly brand new, you can click the tool bar button or the menu bar option to close it.