SL not so welcoming to new residents

[Nanuk Fyrewik]

I read and read and read I don't know how many sites, followed by watching any videos I could find on how to go from the beginner/noob avatar to a fully mesh/bento avatar - then spent (apparently) an entire months' worth of allowable USD buying Lindens so I could create my avatar (I don't think I did too horrible a job of it).

I did my 'due diligence' before  joining so I wouldn't be a pain-in-the-cracker noob.

So with that out of the way, I was ready to find all the beautiful sims I've seen on flickr and dive into being a sim photographer.

Nope.

After happily snatching your money - if you're less than a month old - you're not welcome on a majority of sims. 

Thing is, you won't ever forget those sims and will never visit them again, even after you're an 'acceptable' month old - much less donate any L$ to them. You'll make sure to let your friends who join you in SL know not to bother with those sims, too.

It would be very nice if someone forced all guilty sim owners to put in big, bold letters on all their sim ads/Destination Guide,  "AVATARS LESS THAN 1 MONTH OLD NOT WELCOME HERE".

I just feel so unwelcome as a new resident. Restrictions, restrictions, restrictions.

By whose standards are new avatars accused, judged, condemned and sentenced?

And why? What on earth is a brand new resident so horrifically guilty of, for crying out loud?

Not even sure I have any desire to keep my premium membership going now. It's just left a really sour taste in my mouth and a bad first impression of Second Life.

 

 

[Solar Legion]

If it isn't found under the Newcomer Friendly category you shouldn't be assuming everyone - including newcomers - is welcome.

Like it or not (and some don't) the Destination Guide's entire contents are not geared for newer users.

As far as tings external to the Guide? Never assume that everyone is welcome unless explicitly stated.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Solar Legion

[Mortus Allen]

Blame those that will create brand new alts to grief and harass sims and individuals at those sims. Sadly, it's a case of a few rotten apples spoiling things for many others for no reason other than they feel entitled to making others miserable or prevent them from enjoying otherwise great content.

The sad reality of life, unfortunately.

[Nanuk Fyrewik]

5 minutes ago, Mortus Allen said:

Blame those that will create brand new alts to grief and harass sims and individuals at those sims. Sadly, it's a case of a few rotten apples spoiling things for many others for no reason other than they feel entitled to making others miserable or prevent them from enjoying otherwise great content.

The sad reality of life, unfortunately.

Thank you, Solar. Apparently LL don't need the money so newcomers shouldn't bother joining.

[Mortus Allen]

It's hardly LLs fault people can be total A-Hole behind a keyboard. Many of these people are protecting their own investment of time, money and vision and want others to enjoy it. What does LL have to do with the rotten apples behavior? All they really can do is reactively remove these accounts.

[Solar Legion]

23 minutes ago, Nanuk Fyrewik said:

Thank you, Solar. Apparently LL don't need the money so newcomers shouldn't bother joining.

M'kay - you quoted someone else yet responded to me.

Linden Lab needing/wanting newcomer money has nothing whatsoever to do with how the Destination Guide is set up and people's (lack of) attention to the Categories or other expectations concerning regions they may have seen elsewhere.

For the record, I'm all for being more welcoming. I am also for making such welcoming places more visible and far more clearly marked.

ETA: Thought I ought to make one bit clear and I do realize it'll change how this is taken - By no means am I for requiring that all entries into the Destination Guide be Newcomer Friendly/have no "age" (days since account creation) minimum.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Solar Legion

[Polenth Yue]

As you're premium, you can get a Linden Home for no extra cost. The new ones in Bellisseria are in a large area that you can explore and there are events at the fairegrounds. You can find the fairegrounds dock here:

http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Whiskey Bay/159/15/22

The destination guide has a newcomer friendly category here:

https://secondlife.com/destinations/howto/newbie

[Chery Amore]

Did you get a linden home with your premium membership yet? If you look around there are lots of lovely places to visit around the linden home areas and you don't have to actually live there to go. Also look up some Bellisseria groups and join ones that interest you.

It really does depend when you are out and about on the owner of the venue or land. People that own those areas pay for them so they are allowed to make any rules they want concerning age, payment status, and more... like some areas (as an example) might only want human appearing avatars at their place although to enforce that they have to look at individual avatars. Yes it can bother some people but it is their right to make the rules as a land owner.... you paid, but so did they. 

Usually people that own an area won't let in new avatars not because they are  actually new to secondlife  but  because of how easy it is to set up an account and grief, spam, stalk others or beg for money them. You'll see more of this if you hang around... and likely will understand the reasoning better. 

 

 

[Rowan Amore]

Although you entered SL and went about things in a reasonable manner, this is NOT usually the case.  Having been witness to far too many naked noobs running amouk asking everyone in sight 'do the sex?', I can't blame region owners for a simple 30 day rule.  It's not as if there aren't literally thousands of other places one can explore that don't have such restrictions.  Some places have group fees.  You can TP there but can go no further until you join.  Some require payment info on file.  Waiting 30 days is the least restrictive measure in my opinion.

[Nanuk Fyrewik]

Thank you all. Yes, I did get a Linden Home. I literally read everything I could get my hands on before I joined just so I wouldn't be clueless.

I've deleted my account now so no need to keep replying, but I thank you and appreciate that you've replied.

SL is the most toxic environment it's ever been my misfortune to experience, I'm sorry to say.

[Solar Legion]

Boy is your bar low as far as toxicity is concerned. Literally no one that has replied here was "toxic" nor is it "toxic" to have such restrictions on one's regions.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Solar Legion

[Chris Corvinus]

This is why SL cannot and will never retain new people. The fact is...SL is not newcomer friendly at all. The fault is on both LL for making it a free-for-all, and everyone else for acting anti-noob and blaming griefers which I was told are like...less than 1%. Its stupid. So until everyone recognizes this problem, people like her are never going to stay much less recommend it to her friends.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Chris Nova

[Silent Mistwalker]

@Linden Lab

Is anyone paying any attention to what the new person has said? If not, YOU SHOULD BE! And you should LISTEN, not  just hear.

Thank you for your co-operation.  🤭

[Chris Corvinus]

@Solar Legion You can haha as much as you want but you know I'm right, buddy.

[Silent Mistwalker]

9 minutes ago, Nanuk Fyrewik said:

Thank you all. Yes, I did get a Linden Home. I literally read everything I could get my hands on before I joined just so I wouldn't be clueless.

I've deleted my account now so no need to keep replying, but I thank you and appreciate that you've replied.

SL is the most toxic environment it's ever been my misfortune to experience, I'm sorry to say.

 

I wish you'd give it more of a chance. Even with all the jackasses it still has it's appeal.

It's not the environment, it's just some of the people. Some have had to deal with a lot of crap, others dish it out. 

Sad to say, SL is no different from RL in that respect.

 

[Polenth Yue]

I don't understand doing all that research, paying lots of money, and then deleting everything because a few regions block new accounts. You did it so quickly that we didn't even have time to help you (it was around 20-30 minutes from the first post to deleting everything). All I can really say for the future is it's better to sleep on such decisions and not make them in the heat of the moment. You've flushed a lot of money down the drain for a temporary annoyance.

If you do want to try again, say what you're interested in and people can suggest places you can visit. But give people more than 20 minutes to come up with something.

[Silent Mistwalker]

5 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

This is why SL cannot and will never retain new people. The fact is...SL is not newcomer friendly at all. The fault is on both LL for making it a free-for-all, and everyone else for acting anti-noob and blaming griefers which I was told are like...less than 1%. Its stupid. So until everyone recognizes this problem, people like her are never going to stay much less recommend it to her friends.

ok So LL can let all those people back in that loved to go around crashing sims and destroying people's graphics cards? No, dude, no. It wasn't the quantity so much as the quality. In other words true, it was only a few groups of people but it wasn't how many of them there were, it was what they did. Disrupting service was just one thing they did on a regular basis.

[Solar Legion]

Yeah, no Chris.

A proper introductory area to Second Life, properly and clearly marked Newcomer Friendly areas. Those are a must on LL's end.

Newcomers need to not expect to be welcomed everywhere in the Guide or everywhere they may have seen across the Internet.

Take offense if you want: I came into Second Life fully expecting there'd be places I was unwelcome or could not go to initially.

[Chris Corvinus]

Just now, Silent Mistwalker said:

ok So LL can let all those people back in that loved to go around crashing sims and destroying people's graphics cards? No, dude, no. It wasn't the quantity so much as the quality. In other words true, it was only a few groups of people but it wasn't how many of them there were, it was what they did. Disrupting service was just one thing they did on a regular basis.

As far as I know, it happens way less because LL banned not just them but the programs they used. And we all know griefing and crashing sims doesnt happen as often anymore because of that. So explain to me why too many still don't allow new people at their public sims? Its an outdated policy.

[Silent Mistwalker]

Just now, Solar Legion said:

Yeah, no Chris.

A proper introductory area to Second Life, properly and clearly marked Newcomer Friendly areas. Those are a must on LL's end.

Newcomers need to not expect to be welcomed everywhere in the Guide or everywhere they may have seen across the Internet.

Take offense if you want: I came into Second Life fully expecting there'd be places I was unwelcome or could not go to initially.

 

The thought of not being welcome anywhere in SL when I first joined never occurred to me. Not the first time, or the second or third time I've registered an account. 

Most people are not going to think about that particular detail when they have ooooo new shiny! in front of them.

[Chris Corvinus]

Bottom line is that SL is a giant unrestricted sandbox of do whatever you want and that makes it not newcomer-friendly at all as displayed in this whole thread.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Chris Nova

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

As far as I know, it happens way less because LL banned not just them but the programs they used. And we all know griefing and crashing sims doesnt happen as often anymore because of that. So explain to me why too many still don't allow new people at their public sims? Its an outdated policy.

Because there are still griefers on the grid. There are still those who register a bunch of new accounts and use them for griefing. None of that has changed. The policy is not outdated. Too stringent perhaps but not outdated. Thirty days is a bit of overkill. Fourteen is better but 7 most likely is ideal.

[Chris Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Because there are still griefers on the grid. There are still those who register a bunch of new accounts and use them for griefing. None of that has changed. The policy is not outdated. Too stringent perhaps but not outdated. Thirty days is a bit of overkill. Fourteen is better but 7 most likely is ideal.

Also depends on what constitutes griefing because sim crashers are banned.. Annoyance? disagreement? Simple dislike of someone? I'll agree with the 7-14 days though. That seems far more fair.

[Solar Legion]

13 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

The thought of not being welcome anywhere in SL when I first joined never occurred to me. Not the first time, or the second or third time I've registered an account. 

Most people are not going to think about that particular detail when they have ooooo new shiny! in front of them.

Just about every forum, MB, actual Game, Community heck even old school chat rooms I have ever run across have had varied numbers of their users who kept a wary eye on new users thanks to varied issues and ne'er do wells that have come through.

Expecting everyone to be welcoming is ... unrealistic. Expecting every single place to be open is unrealistic. ETA: Stopping to think about it or not really doesn't matter.

Adjusting the age counter to about fourteen days? You're not likely to get many who would agree to it but it is a reasonable request.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Solar Legion

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

Also depends on what constitutes griefing because sim crashers are banned.. Annoyance? disagreement? Simple dislike of someone? I'll agree with the 7-14 days though. That seems far more fair.

Try harassment for starters. The most prevalent being sexual harassment.

It's all covered in the guidelines:

Quote

These Standards set out actions that could result in restrictions on your access to the Service, up to and including account termination.

Behavioral Standards

Intolerance

Linden Lab encourages social interactions between users across multiple countries. The use of derogatory or demeaning language or images based on race, ethnicity, gender, religion or sexual orientation is prohibited. Actions that marginalize, belittle, or defame users or groups are similarly prohibited.  

Harassment

Harassment can take many forms. Communicating or behaving in a manner that is offensively coarse, intimidating, threatening, or causes annoyance or alarm is not allowed.

Assault

Any act of violence toward a user’s avatar, including an act of intimidation or bullying such as repeatedly shooting or pushing, will not be tolerated. Creating or using scripts that singularly or persistently target a user and prevent a user’s enjoyment of the Service is also not allowed.

Invasion of Personal Space/Comfort Zones

It is important to respect the personal space of another user. We strongly encourage you to be mindful of your movement, hand gestures, and your avatar’s positioning relative to other avatars.

Inappropriate Content

All content, activity, and communication within the Service must adhere to the Content Guidelines, including but not limited to, abiding by any limitations on the type of content permissible in certain areas of the Service.

In Second Life, Adult Content is only permitted on Private Regions designated as ‘Adult’ and on the Mainland continent, ‘Zindra’. Private Regions designated as ‘Adult’ will be filtered from non-verified Second Life accounts.

Disclosure

Sharing personal information about other users, either directly or indirectly, without their consent—including, but not limited to, gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual orientation, alternate account names (including account statuses, such as whether it is on hold, suspended, or active), and real-world location beyond what is provided by them in their user profile—is not allowed. Except for the purpose of reporting abuse or any violation of policies to Linden Lab, the remote monitoring, posting or sharing of conversations without a participant’s consent are prohibited.

Disturbing the Peace/Global Attacks

Linden Lab aims to provide users with an enjoyable experience on the Service. Please be mindful that your actions may cause slow server performance or may inhibit another user’s ability to enjoy the Service. Examples of prohibited attempts to disturb the peace include, but are not limited to: 

 

• Manipulating scripts;
• Repeated transmission of undesired content;
• Spawning items;
• Disrupting events or user conversations, such as through the use of repetitive sounds, causing echo effects, or unmuting your mic when it should be muted;
• Spamming, such as the repeated posting of advertising or self-promotional content;
• Posting interpersonal disputes or personal negative commentary publicly when such communications should occur through private channels of communication;
• Flaming, such as hostile or disruptive posts intended to incite an angry response or to encourage other users to violate Linden Lab’s policies; and
• Abusing Linden Lab personnel or moderators (as applicable on a forum operated by Linden Lab), such as re-posting content that has been removed, suspended or locked, or posting content that questions a moderator’s decision or competence (as applicable on a forum operated by Linden Lab).   

 

 

Objects, scripts, or actions that interfere with or disrupt the Service, servers, or other systems related to the Service will not be tolerated in any form. You will be held responsible for any actions taken by, or caused by objects or scripts that belong to, you or your account.   

 

Impersonation

Impersonation of another user, stealing another user’s identity, or claiming recognition for content created by another user are all strictly prohibited. Additionally, the impersonation of a Linden Lab employee will result in immediate account termination.

https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/community-standards

 

Not much point of having all that in the Community Standards if they didn't still occur and LL didn't need to cover their own butts.