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Using Second Life the "wrong" way - the barrier between first and second life.


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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, AlexJade64 said:

For example? I can not think of a single thing.

OMG, and I'm sorry of this comes off snarky, but you can't think of a single thing? Are you that naive? There are dozens of reasons why I do not want to share anything about my real life.

Like maybe I'm not being comfortable with it?

Privacy?

Not wanting one's pictures or cam posted on dozens of sites?

Not wanting my darker kinks exposed or shared?

Promises to a RL partner?

Being stalked from SL to RL?

A couple hundred other valid reasons?

It seems to me that you're arguing that this stuff is a must as a basis of a trusting relationship. It's not. I judge people in SL based on their actions and attitudes over time, not what info they give me. I also behave with them based on how they present here in SL.

If you're in a female avatar acting female, you're female to me, regardless of your gender behind the keys. I have an amazing friend who could fool anyone (including 99% of us GGs) playing in his female avatar, so much so she now states in her profile she's male IRL, but so many people can't accept that (guys, mostly). But she's here to be female, so even if I didn't know, that's all good. Should I demand to know the gender of every person behind their avatar? Is that information relevant to how I interact with that person? Do you need to know that? No.

You also said in a later post that "I did understand. I just do not see the problem with it." when @wesleytron talked about people in RL finding out thing you do in SL. Really?

You can't see a problem if someone posted to my mom and dad's social media accounts pictures of me having intimate and very kinky relations with two guys, with the text verbatim from my escorting rate and info card?

You don't see the issue if that same person informed a group of my RL friends and work colleagues that I really like dogs in SL? You obviously have not been pulled into an HR meeting in RL only to be shown a screenshot picture of you having relations with an animal and asked about it, have you?

Furthermore there's no reason for you, or anyone, to know. My friendships and relationships here in SL are largely superficial given my profession. 95% of the guys who meet me want nothing more than a session of pleasure, which I am happy to provide. 

I'm going to end my participation in this thread with one last thought. You do no need to know anything about me to have a long term relationship with me. You trust a person based on their behavior, not their words. What people say and what they do are often polar opposites (just look to any social issue on this). As @Bdobson pointed out, if you're expecting others to conform to your standards, especially in terms of needing personal information, you'll find SL a difficult place. @Maitimo is quite right in her assessment, I think.

I do hope you find what you need here, there have been some in this thread supportive of your desire to know thing that some of will always keep private (for example, @Max Nova), but having been off an on for so long I am finally happy being a much more guarded and private person here, but I know that not everyone can hack the madhouse that is SL.

*hugs*

Edited by Sapphire Dakota
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35 minutes ago, Sapphire Dakota said:

I have an amazing friend who could fool anyone (including 99% of us GGs) playing in his female avatar, so much so she now states in her profile she's male IRL, but so many people can't accept that (guys, mostly). But she's here to be female, so even if I didn't know, that's all good.

Love you too, Saph.

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40 minutes ago, Sapphire Dakota said:

OMG, and I'm sorry of this comes off snarky, but you can't think of a single thing? Are you that naive? There are dozens of reasons why I do not want to share anything about my real life.

Like maybe I'm not being comfortable with it?

Privacy?

Not wanting one's pictures or cam posted on dozens of sites?

Not wanting my darker kinks exposed or shared?

Promises to a RL partner?

Being stalked from SL to RL?

A couple hundred other valid reasons?

It seems to me that you're arguing that this stuff is a must as a basis of a trusting relationship. It's not. I judge people in SL based on their actions and attitudes over time, not what info they give me. I also behave with them based on how they present here in SL.

If you're in a female avatar acting female, you're female to me, regardless of your gender behind the keys. I have an amazing friend who could fool anyone (including 99% of us GGs) playing in his female avatar, so much so she now states in her profile she's male IRL, but so many people can't accept that (guys, mostly). But she's here to be female, so even if I didn't know, that's all good. Should I demand to know the gender of every person behind their avatar? Is that information relevant to how I interact with that person? Do you need to know that? No.

You also said in a later post that "I did understand. I just do not see the problem with it." when @wesleytron talked about people in RL finding out thing you do in SL. Really?

You can't see a problem if someone posted to my mom and dad's social media accounts pictures of me having intimate and very kinky relations with two guys, with the text verbatim from my escorting rate and info card?

You don't see the issue if that same person informed a group of my RL friends and work colleagues that I really like dogs in SL? You obviously have not been pulled into an HR meeting in RL only to be shown a screenshot picture of you having relations with an animal and asked about it, have you?

Furthermore there's no reason for you, or anyone, to know. My friendships and relationships here in SL are largely superficial given my profession. 95% of the guys who meet me want nothing more than a session of pleasure, which I am happy to provide. 

I'm going to end my participation in this thread with one last thought. You do no need to know anything about me to have a long term relationship with me. You trust a person based on their behavior, not their words. What people say and what they do are often polar opposites (just look to any social issue on this). As @Bdobson pointed out, if you're expecting others to conform to your standards, especially in terms of needing personal information, you'll find SL a difficult place. @Maitimo is quite right in her assessment, I think.

I do hope you find what you need here, there have been some in this thread supportive of your desire to know thing that some of will always keep private (for example, @Max Nova), but having been off an on for so long I am finally happy being a much more guarded and private person here, but I know that not everyone can hack the madhouse that is SL.

*hugs*

I did not know people are ashamed of things like that. If you have a close, trusting relationship with someone, what is the problem with them finding those things out?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, AlexJade64 said:

If you have a close, trusting relationship with someone, what is the problem with them finding those things out?

You say you did understand, but this to me reads like you don't. I don't think anybody is is talking about not sharing these aspects of themselves with people they have a trusting relationship with (which they can do in a virtual world without having to share important details about their real lives), they're talking about people they know in real life finding these things out who they don't have that trusting relationship with. Which is what they are saying could happen if they give out too much information to some stranger in SL they only just met who asks for it. Like real name, social media accounts etc.

Let's say for the sake of argument you love nothing more than acting out long-held fantasies of golden showers and incest in this virtual space. Are you suggesting you'd be fine with your mother, your father, your sister, your friends, your boss and your work colleagues all finding that out about you? You wouldn't be concerned about how THEY might judge you?

It doesn't have to be just about kinks and fetishes though. How about, just hypothetically speaking, you're homosexual or transgendered in a part of the world where you might be ostracised, punished or even fear for your life if people knew? Surely you would not want all the people around you in real life knowing that?

Edited by wesleytron
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Posted (edited)

Others in these 3 pages have said this more politely than I am about to @AlexJade64 but my goodness, you are coming across as severely tone deaf. It's been explained over and over, you are just not hearing it or not able to accept that others have different reasons for being in SL.

It actually goes right back to your title for the post ... implying there is a "wrong way" to play SL. That's your problem right there. You are making an assumption that isn't true.

There is no right or wrong way to play SL, it's a sandbox of almost infinite possibilities.

I would be happy to treat you however you want to be treated, but it sounds to me like you can't accept other people's boundaries or needs. That isn't something I could base a friendship on. @wesleytron just hit it on the head ... suppose, just for a minute, that no one in the real world knew I am exploring a feminine life in SL, and I wanted it to stay that way? Can you understand my need for privacy or not? My fear that my real life would be impacted negatively if that were to become common knowledge?

Furthermore, this is NOT the real world and if you trust anyone fully here in SL I really pity you.

Edited by Katherine Heartsong
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13 minutes ago, wesleytron said:

You say you did understand, but this to me reads like you don't. I don't think anybody is is talking about not sharing these aspects of themselves with people they have a trusting relationship with (which they can do in a virtual world without having to share important details about their real lives), they're talking about people they know in real life finding these things out who they don't have that trusting relationship with. Which is what they are saying could happen if they give out too much information to some stranger in SL they only just met who asks for it. Like real name, social media accounts etc.

Let's say for the sake of argument you love nothing more than acting out long-held fantasies of golden showers and incest in this virtual space. Are you suggesting you'd be fine with your mother, your father, your sister, your friends, your boss and your work colleagues all finding that out about you? You wouldn't be concerned about how THEY might judge you?

It doesn't have to be just about kinks and fetishes though. How about, just hypothetically speaking, you're homosexual or transgendered in a part of the world where you might be ostracised, punished or even fear for your life if people knew? Surely you would not want all the people around you in real life knowing that?

I would not mind people knowing it about me. Its who I am after all, I am not going to pretend to be someone else or hide because of it.

And I am being ostracized for who I am where I am from. But I wont let that stop me. Although if someone chooses to hide that stuff, its their choice.

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True story..about sharing things about RL. About 10 years ago I was on a forum and I casually had mentioned I lived in a certain city. Throughout the course of about a year I didn't share direct information but little did I know that even sharing indirect and information you might consider vague someone found out where I worked. Someone got a bug up their butt and decided that it would be fun to contact my work and tell them things about this particular forum I had posted on.  Part of the organization had live chat support so a group of them went on chat and copied and pasted the posts to my coworkers on the live support.  Luckily it was only a support group but there were a lot of private things copied and pasted.  I almost got fired, not because of the messages but because it was causing a disruption to the business.  So yeah, I do not share many personal details beside the state I live in and my age. You never know who is lurking around the corner itching to cause you trouble with your personal information.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, AlexJade64 said:

If you have a close, trusting relationship with someone, what is the problem with them finding those things out?

Again, to what Sapphire said earlier, do you really have no clue how badly people react when they learn some personal intimate secrets about someone?

This is what I meant about being tone deaf. People. Get. Hurt. Emotionally and physically.

And, sadly, even by people who they thought were their friends.

In real life and here in SL too.

Edited by Katherine Heartsong
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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, AlexJade64 said:

I would not mind people knowing it about me. Its who I am after all, I am not going to pretend to be someone else or hide because of it.

And I am being ostracized for who I am where I am from. But I wont let that stop me. Although if someone chooses to hide that stuff, its their choice.

You are doing it to yourself so let's stop playing martyr.  

Edited by Sam1 Bellisserian
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3 minutes ago, AlexJade64 said:

And I am being ostracized for who I am where I am from. But I wont let that stop me. Although if someone chooses to hide that stuff, its their choice.

And that's happening in your REAL life is it? Not in Second Life?

You're being ostracised by the people where you're from because of where you are from?

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5 minutes ago, wesleytron said:

And that's happening in your REAL life is it? Not in Second Life?

You're being ostracised by the people where you're from because of where you are from?

Yes, real life. Ostracized for who I am, because I have some unpopular opinions.

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7 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:


this is the story how people might experience your approach...
ehm btw .. you'r not the scalop


Now I have to watch the full episode to see what happens!

 

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, AlexJade64 said:

Yes, real life. Ostracized for who I am, because I have some unpopular opinions.

I see. I figure those opinions must include more than you like pineapple on pizza and they don't.

Edited by wesleytron
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47 minutes ago, AlexJade64 said:

Yes, real life. Ostracized for who I am, because I have some unpopular opinions.

Ostracized? Really? Being told you are wrong by someone who disagrees with you is not being ostracized, neither is receiving back what you dish out. I suspect that people treat you the way you treat them and you get all but hurt about it.

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You know .... If I was so willy nilly with personal details as you (OP) seem to believe everyone should be, I'd be opening myself up to a whole host of potential (and potentially life threatening) issues. It is bad enough that I'll have to deal with them on a case-by-case basis soon enough!

There were (may still even be) some communities in Second Life that approach things your way. A good chunk of the userbase gave them a wide berth or otherwise were rather blissfully unaware of them (unless they poked their heads out).

If any still exist, you might be able to find them. If not ... Well, others have already said it far more politely than I could ever muster.

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People are in SL for many different reasons. Some are here to experience things they can't or are unable to in RL, some for total escapism, some to play in-world games. Some people use SL as a platform to showcase their art or music. Others to connect with similar minded people. And the list of reasons goes on and on.

For example, I am here for a break, I don't watch TV so SL becomes my coffee break/mind numbing time. A time I can be away from reality if you wish. I prefer casual interactions to meaningful long term friendships while in SL. That said, I had some great conversations and laughs over the years. 

You gave a specific reason for giving SL a shot: "I thought I would be able to use it as a replacement for my 1st life. I would be able to talk to people and make genuine friends"

There must be other people like you in SL, who see it as a replacement for their 1st life. People who are willing to make SL their 1st life and so who are happy to share as much or as little as they wish about it. I have no idea where or how you can meet these individuals but maybe try the "Make Friends" section?

It seems to me however, that your perception of how much people actually share in RL is a bit unrealistic or too optimistic? You explain in your post that you have little interaction with other people in RL. So maybe that's where your perception of how much people share with each other comes from.

For example, in my job I see 100s of people in a month. Some I will see over and over again as I'll be called to care for their animals, and some I will only meet once. While foaling a mare or scanning a herd of cows we will chat and even have a cup of coffee. We might share thoughts and ideas about various things but I'd rarely tell these people everything that goes on in my private life.

Building friendships takes time and effort. This is not just a SL thing, it's just human nature. Actually it's animals in general... horses take time to bond to new horses for example. Sometimes they don't get on at all and that's ok too.  People aren't any different - if you are willing to give someone time to know and trust you before opening up, things may blossom from there. 

SL is a small subset of the world's population and the Forums even smaller. Maybe try other platforms? I am not sure what is available out there but if I were you I'd try different VR-type platforms to get a better chance?

I am insanely private in general so I accept I may not be the best person to explain this or to be used as an example. I have very few friends in RL and even with them I only share certain aspects of my life. It takes a lot of coffee, chats and trust for me to call someone a friend, it's just the way I am wired. I am an introvert and am very happy to be and do things on my own. I spend an insane amount of time out in fields with horses and cattle so that might be part of the reason.

Anyway I thought I'd just throw in my two-cents' worth.

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3 hours ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

I would be happy to treat you however you want to be treated, but it sounds to me like you can't accept other people's boundaries or needs. That isn't something I could base a friendship on.

This was my main takeaway from this thread. I am actually open in the ways wanted here. I'm my own boss, my family know what I do online, and nothing about my identity is currently illegal, so the main reasons to hide things are gone. But I'm not going to trust or get close to someone who doesn't understand boundaries. When I say no to something or don't want to talk about something, it isn't open for debate. If I ask for something not to be discussed with others, I expect it not to be. There can't be any trust without knowing that boundaries will be respected.

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4 hours ago, Polenth Yue said:

 There can't be any trust without knowing that boundaries will be respected.

This, exactly.

Trust isn't sharing everything, it's appreciating that some things are not for sharing, and trusting each other anyway. If you can't do that, then you're not providing the very same trust that you're demanding from others (the OP, not you, Polenth).

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@Sapphire Dakota as I said I would not be comfortable sharing my credit card info. I think I made my point very clear with that statement. I don't live in a paranoid culture, in fact we were listed as the "friendliest city in the world" 2019 (I'm guessing they are going to skip that title for 2020). It's no big deal for me to make a new friend face to face in a coffee shop and share certain aspects of my life with them right there in person so why would it be a big deal to share in Second Life? I'm not a role player, I'm very social and I am myself in Second Life. Certainly I would not share sensitive information, I would not do that in real life either, it's just common sense. So if people want a cultural exchange and want to know about where I live I'm happy to share that, I wouldn't exactly give my home address, telephone number or mention where my children go to school but I think you get my point. 

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Hi Alex!
let me start with: I do feel you! Because I was like you when I began. I started my journey in Second Life almost 15 years ago, in 2006. And I joined with the exact same ideas.
I have been battling depressions in RL for over 20 years now, which led to some forms of social anxieties. So I had and still have some of the same problems IRL that you wrote about, as well.

So I, too, came to SL literally to extend my RL into SL and do all the things, fulfill all the dreams I would and could never fulfill in RL, while actually being ME in SL. Not just my actual emotions and feelings - everything. I look like me, I act like me, I do and say in SL exactly what "I" would do or say in RL. I, too, share any RL info people ask for - Mikey Shu in SL is essentially a "live streamed clone of myself in a parallel universe" (help!). 😄

I mean... I nonetheless loved RPing in SL, too - but I always just RPed in "realistic, contemporary urban RP" settings and I was actually ME in my role - just in a different life. Usually I was a Police Officer, a dream I have had ever since I was young. I have always been wanting to emigrate to the U.S. from Germany, find a loving wife and start a career as Cop. But well, as life plays - that's sadly not quite realistic, so I tried to be the real me with that dream in SL that I won't ever reach in RL.

The problem:
Like you already figured out as well, we are a rare species. I, too, wouldn't go down the road and say that you or I are playing SL the "wrong" way. But yes it is true, indeed, that - in 2006 just like today - most people seem to treat SL just as a casual video game or a "social chatroom game", where they aren't really interested in sharing much RL information or make actual new, meaningful RL friends. And that's fine!
Or then there are those, like some posters here, who were once open to RL but got stalked and HAD to start separating both worlds. Sadly that sh*t happens more often in SL than most can imagine. I could fill an entire wall with names of people I've met in my 15 years in SL, who told me they have at least once been harassed in RL, through SL.


Sorry for my huge text. My point is: It's just that people like you and I are using the open sandbox world of SL in a different way, than many others. Does that make it hard for us to play "our" way and find like-minded people? Absolutely. Is that often frustrating? Heck yeah!
But that doesn't mean that anyone, neither you or me or the others are playing this "game" right or wrong. They are just playing it differently from you. 🙂 I promise you, there ARE more people like us out there, it just needs more time and patience to come across them.
And in the meantime I can only recommend to simply continue playing SL your way and just stay away from people that don't have the same mindset. Might make you lonely at times, but will save you a lot of drama. Or being perceived as being drama yourself.

Or just take a break from SL! SL is lovely but it is also stress. Sometimes one just needs a break from it. I have happily and strictly abandoned SL entirely from my life for over 2 years now. And it has actually improved my mental health - realizing that by thinking like you in a world where most people don't, it made me even sicker, not healthier.

Edited by Mikey Shu
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