Leeward Cruising Club

[Jammy Voxel]

While exploring SL18B I stumbled into an exhibit for the Leeward Cruising Club. Their motto: "No one left at the dock!" Being very enthusiastic about sailing, but still mostly a novice, and encouraged by their motto, I decided to join their group and give them a try. I sadly discovered that they have no trouble at all leaving people at the dock.

This club has two sailing events a week followed by a dance. Each event has a particular route that the boats follow. I tried two of these events, and also made a trial run on an upcoming third event. In each case I observed that the sailing routes were not for beginning sailors, and were often quite challenging. In most cases requests for help were met with silence or snobbery from the experts. Rather than enjoy a leisurely cruise, most of the other boaters seemed to consider the route a race to be run through at the fasted possible speed. Other sailors routinely crashed into other boats, not yielding the right of way or engaging in any kind of sportsmanship. At no time did I receive any impression that new members were welcome, nor did anyone reach out.

Well, there was one single exception to this. One person did step up, on my first cruise, and offer quite a bit of help. But for me that just wasn't enough. Perhaps you might have a different experience, and color me butt hurt if you want. I have left that group and will be looking for friendlier waters and more welcoming people to sail with. Suggestions welcome.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Jammy Voxel

[BJoyful]

That is a very sad experience for a new sailor in SL.  There are wonderful people in that Group and in many others.  Please don't give up on Leeward.  Chances are it was just a few people in a bit of a selfish mood and we all have those from time to time 😉. 

We enjoy the Tradewinds Yacht Club a lot as it's not as 'do or die' and I'm not a competitive sailor.  Tradewinds (TYC) usually has a Friday Cruise (not a race) and they send Notices with the route in a HUD and on a Notecard.  My partner and I generally attend FAR's Friday Party on FAR's 'boat yay!' in Ness Region at the time the TYC Friday Cruise is running live but we do the routes at our leisure because they are generally easy enough for beginning Sailors.  They do have a party with a DJ after.  We did attend a few of those and had a good time.  The other members were helpful and gave great advice and free boats from the Clubhouse!

If you like a variety of adventures besides Sailing such as car cruises, short flights, themed adventures like our unforgettable  Viking Longship rowing adventure raiding the Mole Made treasures in the Bingo Straits or a Pirate Tall Ships & Galleons circumnavigating Nautilus, please join us on Thursdays from 11:30 AM to 2 PM (ish).  It's a Campbell Coast thing organized by @kitten Mills and @Uli Jansma of the Eulennest Group in Novatron Region  (Eulennest means Owl's Nest so look for the Owl on World Map in Novatron)  There is a Rez Zone there and lots of friendly help by some of the best sailors in SL.

Also there is the Boat Parade in Bellisseria departing the Docks in Whiskey Bay Region adjacent to Bellisseria Fairgrounds Region every day at 4 PM SLT except on Sundays when it's Hot Air Balloon parade day at 4 PM SLT.  You can contact @Camden McAndrews or @Crystal Edelmann for LMs of the departure place(s).  I'm not sure where the Hot Air Balloon trip departs.  Don't give up on Leeward for a couple of less than warm welcomes.  Once you practice a little more you may enjoy the competitions and races!   ⛵ On, Sail On, Sailor ♫ ♥♥

Edited July 5, 2021 by BJoyful
spelling and forgot Camden's last name had a Mc (smh)

[Jammy Voxel]

1 hour ago, BJoyful said:

Please don't give up on Leeward.  There are wonderful people in that Group

Thank you for your advice but three interactions over several days was quite enough to sour me on that group. I accept that you know good people in the group. Unfortunately, with the one exception, I did not encounter them. I will not be returning to Leeward and will advise anyone who asks to avoid them as well.

1 hour ago, BJoyful said:

We enjoy the Tradewinds Yacht Club a lot as it's not as 'do or die' and I'm not a competitive sailor.  Tradewinds (TYC) usually has a Friday Cruise (not a race) and they send Notices with the route in a HUD and on a Notecard.  My partner and I generally attend FAR's Friday Party on FAR's 'boat yay!' in Ness Region at the time the TYC Friday Cruise is running live but we do the routes at our leisure because they are generally easy enough for beginning Sailors.  They do have a party with a DJ after.  We did attend a few of those and had a good time.  The other members were helpful and gave great advice and free boats from the Clubhouse!

I will investigate Tradewinds.

1 hour ago, BJoyful said:

If you like a variety of adventures besides Sailing such as car cruises, short flights, themed adventures like our unforgettable  Viking Longship rowing adventure raiding the Mole Made treasures in the Bingo Straits or a Pirate Tall Ships & Galleons circumnavigating Nautilus, please join us on Thursdays from 11:30 AM to 2 PM (ish).  It's a Campbell Coast thing organized by @kitten Mills and @Uli Jansma of the Eulennest Group in Novatron Region  (Eulennest means Owl's Nest so look for the Owl on World Map in Novatron)  There is a Rez Zone there and lots of friendly help by some of the best sailors in SL.

I'm familiar with the Campbell Coast and will take this under advisement if I can get free time during those hours.

1 hour ago, BJoyful said:

Also there is the Boat Parade in Bellisseria departing the Docks in Whiskey Bay Region adjacent to Bellisseria Fairgrounds Region every day at 4 PM SLT except on Sundays when it's Hot Air Balloon parade day at 4 PM SLT.  You can contact @Camden McAndrews or @Crystal Edelmann for LMs of the departure place(s).  I'm not sure where the Hot Air Balloon trip departs.  Don't give up on Leeward for a couple of less than warm welcomes.  Once you practice a little more you may enjoy the competitions and races!   ⛵ On, Sail On, Sailor ♫ ♥♥

I have been participating in the Boat Parades for several weeks now and I do enjoy them, though we had our first griefers today, regrettably.

Thank you for your input.

[Aethelwine]

I often join LCCs Sunday cruises, The Tuesday ones are a bit late for me so rarely attend them, I have however been running cruises for other cruising clubs for around five years now.

I am sad you had a bad experience with LCC, but I think it may perhaps be based on a misconception of what they are and expectations.

The cruises are run weekly by a handful of people and attended regularly by 30 or more people. It takes a few hours at least to plan each route and organise the DJs rights and destinations. In the hour before the start of the cruise the organisers time will be sending notices, talking in chat, organising the DJ and talking with people asking questions and wanting support, trying to move people away from the start to allow others to get in, ascertaining if reports of regions down are genuine and putting in Live chat requests for restarts. Sometimes that runs smoothly other times there are lots of requests to deal with, huds to send out because of notices not working for people, giving advice on problems. All the sailing cruises have cores of helpful people (often the same people) who look out to help out new sailors but they are unpaid have good days and bad days. But the bigger the event the more likely things will get missed. I know and have seen Kitten waiting on the dockside sometimes 30 minutes after the start of the Sunday cruises helping people get started. 

LCC are the first and longest running sailing club with the largest attendance, they retain sailors by keeping a balance between new sailor friendly routes and more challenging ones to keep people coming back. All that is a judgment of course and sometimes they might get that wrong but they must be getting it right mostly because of their longevity and popularity.

The cruises offer the opportunity of sailing in a large group and meeting other people. Because of this there are a nice mix of new people and regulars, not everyone however approaches the routes the same way.. some have their fast boats they like sailing, some aren't confident sailing and use motorboats, some are learning new boats... and especially with lag from being in a group accidents will happen. It is just a function of the group being open that you get people wanting to do the cruises with different approaches and skill levels. Not really something you can expect the cruise organisers to police.

The Parade is a very different concept, the idea of it is to keep together and take your time, the boats used and speed are restricted, it works and works well but it is a very different concept. It is so far as I am aware the only club that approaches cruises in such a way, it functions successfully like that because of being relatively small community of participants. I am glad you like that, but judging other cruises by that is a comparison of styles of cruise rather than of specific clubs.

It may be that the style and size of the LCC cruise is not for you, you may have had a bad experience there, but many people do enjoy them because of what they offer. 

For someone new to sailing I would suggest arriving at the start 30 minutes early asking your questions in nearby chat, being patient and understanding that the other people there are also individuals behind their screens, they may be new too and not have the confidence to explain their answers or be rushing balancing other pressures. I see support being given and offered routinely on LCC and other cruises and my perception is that the sailing community is a friendly one with many people that are willing and take the time regularly to support those testing the waters with advice and assistance.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Aethelwine

[Jammy Voxel]

9 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

I often join LCCs Sunday cruises, The Tuesday ones are a bit late for me so rarely attend them, I have however been running cruises for other cruising clubs for around five years now.

I am sad you had a bad experience with LCC, but I think it may perhaps be based on a misconception of what they are and expectations.

It is certainly possible that I have a misconception about what they are, but they were the ones that invited new sailors at their SL18B exhibit. If they are unprepared for a large influx of new sailors, or there is conflict with existing members who don't want to deal with new sailors, that is unfortunate.

9 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

The cruises are run weekly by a handful of people and attended regularly by 30 or more people. It takes a few hours at least to plan each route and organise the DJs rights and destinations. In the hour before the start of the cruise the organisers time will be sending notices, talking in chat, organising the DJ and talking with people asking questions and wanting support, trying to move people away from the start to allow others to get in, ascertaining if reports of regions down are genuine and putting in Live chat requests for restarts. Sometimes that runs smoothly other times there are lots of requests to deal with, huds to send out because of notices not working for people, giving advice on problems. All the sailing cruises have cores of helpful people (often the same people) who look out to help out new sailors but they are unpaid have good days and bad days. But the bigger the event the more likely things will get missed. I know and have seen Kitten waiting on the dockside sometimes 30 minutes after the start of the Sunday cruises helping people get started. 

I don't believe I questioned the commitment of any member of the LCC. I did note that I was offered quite detailed help by one member. I certainly implied that there were more unhelpful or snobby members in my three (an admittedly low number) group chat interactions. My first impression is that the number of existing members who are indifferent or possibly even hostile to new sailors outweighs that helpful core. But that is more a statement on human society than it is an impeachment of the LCC.

9 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

Not really something you can expect the cruise organisers to police.

I did not ask for or expect policing. I related my experience to be informational to anyone else considering, or newly engaged with, the LCC. I regret that it sounded accusatory.

9 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

The Parade is a very different concept, the idea of it is to keep together and take your time, the boats used and speed are restricted, it works and works well but it is a very different concept. It is so far as I am aware the only club that approaches cruises in such a way, it functions successfully like that because of being relatively small community of participants. I am glad you like that, but judging other cruises by that is a comparison of styles of cruise rather than of specific clubs.

I did not judge any other cruise based upon my positive experience with the Bellisseria Boat Parade. If you see language in my original post that suggests that then I will delete it. I did not intend to state any preference. I simply said that I enjoy the Bellisseria Boat Parade. Period.

9 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

It may be that the style and size of the LCC cruise is not for you,

Agreed.

9 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

you may have had a bad experience there, but many people do enjoy them because of what they offer. 

Doubtless.

9 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

For someone new to sailing I would suggest arriving at the start 30 minutes early asking your questions in nearby chat, being patient and understanding that the other people there are also individuals behind their screens, they may be new too and not have the confidence to explain their answers or be rushing balancing other pressures. I see support being given and offered routinely on LCC and other cruises and my perception is that the sailing community is a friendly one with many people that are willing and take the time regularly to support those testing the waters with advice and assistance.

In my third interaction in group I went out to run the route the evening before the actual cruise, in order to prepare. In my group interactions at that time people were DECIDEDLY unhelpful and unfriendly. As you have noted, there is a core of helpful people, and they may not have been around during that particular interaction. I felt unwelcome in each interaction. That could very well just be me and not them. It might have been a bad fit. But it might also be a bad fit for others and my original post was, by intent, more a relation of my personal experience and less an indictment of a particular organization. As always, someone else's mileage may vary. But at least they will be informed going in.

[BJoyful]

50 minutes ago, Jammy Voxel said:

In my group interactions at that time people were DECIDEDLY unhelpful and unfriendly. As you have noted, there is a core of helpful people, and they may not have been around during that particular interaction.

I think you are doing the right thing @Jammy Voxel ♥

Voicing your concerns so that they can be addressed is the most valuable thing you can do for those who follow you.  I think many of the people I know in that sailing club are feeling the right things about this call out.  I'm not a member of that Club, nor am I a member of the Fisher's Island Yacht Club because we did not feel welcomed when we were brand new to sailing and visited various of their yacht club locations inworld and asked questions of the members who appeared to be gathered in small groups for informal YC chats.  We said hello to each person there and each new person who arrived after.  We attempted to join conversation about Sailboats we owned and asked questions about the boats the others had.  They were not welcoming, but terse and gave perfunctory answers if they did answer.  If we asked a question no one knew the answer to, chat seemed to just die or perhaps they were engrossed in outside activities or other chats.  We tried several locations and had a similar response in all of them so we moved on until we found a good fit for us ♥ ⛵

Perhaps a Welcome committee or a Welcome package of FAQs about their club or about Sailing or some Boat Reviews by members (to help new people choose the right boat or know which boat to ask questions about) so when people new to the Group or new to sailing can get a list of Welcoming  Members they will know who they can IM if they need an answer that's not an FAQ or if someone new is just not comfortable chatting to or with unfamiliar people.

Maybe you have a better idea and maybe you will implement it in the group where you find a good fit.  No matter what, good things will come of this ♥  I have a good feeling about how important this kind of thing is going to be in every Group in SL inviting new members because there's so many new people who will join SL today and every day and I'd like them to enjoy every moment of their experience and tell others they know to join or come back to SL because it is FUN and help those new people find their groove here and make this virtual world an even better place that is worth spending a second lifetime exploring, adding to it, creating things and experiences for others and themselves, doing things they enjoy or working at jobs they love.  There is nothing else like Second Life. We are so lucky to be part of it ♥

[Maitimo]

12 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

The Parade is a very different concept, the idea of it is to keep together and take your time, the boats used and speed are restricted,

Not quite true. They stick to a particular speed (around 6.5 knots), and while its easier to do so with one of the recommended boats (because they're scripted to run at that speed in 1st gear), there's no actual obligation to do so. I've done it a few times in sailing boats, Sha Zero and Bandit 55, just for the challenge. It's harder, but absolutely permitted.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Maitimo

[Aethelwine]

1 hour ago, Maitimo said:

Not quite true. They stick to a particular speed (around 6.5 knots), and while its easier to do so with one of the recommended boats (because they're scripted to run at that speed in 1st gear), there's no actual obligation to do so. I've done it a few times in sailing boats, Sha Zero and Bandit 55, just for the challenge. It's harder, but absolutely permitted.

True and I think they also have a script to add to some boats to tune them for the speed they use.

[Maitimo]

16 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

True and I think they also have a script to add to some boats to tune them for the speed they use.

I think they probably do, thought the recommended boats are full-perm anyway, so you could just rip one out and switch it into a different boat. Although when I tried to do this with one of mine, it totally messed up the sitting position. I don't know how to fix that.

[Aethelwine]

30 minutes ago, Maitimo said:

I think they probably do, thought the recommended boats are full-perm anyway, so you could just rip one out and switch it into a different boat. Although when I tried to do this with one of mine, it totally messed up the sitting position. I don't know how to fix that.

The open source version of avsitter used to be available from Dutch harbor, you can probably use the adjuster and a script from that release to reposition the animations, dump the settings to chat and then use that dump to update the avpos notecard

Edited July 8, 2021 by Aethelwine

[Eowyn Southmoor]

Jammy, not sure if they offer cruises at a time convenient for you, but i would check out Rainbow Sails Yacht Club. They run weekly cruises on Saturday and Sunday, and their main marina can be found here: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Osprey Ridge/144/106/25

Besides from normal group chats, they use an extra earpiece that you wear (called BEVR) that allows you to communicate with all the other sailors by just typing into local chat. This makes it easier to get help but also just easier to chit-chat as the group gets spread out over the course. During the course of their normal cruises, they have multiple stops (RV points) when the faster sailors all stop and wait for the slower ones, giving everyone a little rest before continuing on.

Their courses (and the club itself frankly), are extremely well organised, more so that other clubs I've sailed with (and I've sailed with many). 

For what it's worth, my experiences with the LCC have been quite similar to yours, and certainly their adage "no-one left behind" needs to be taken with a grain of salt

 

[Jammy Voxel]

3 minutes ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

Jammy, not sure if they offer cruises at a time convenient for you, but i would check out Rainbow Sails Yacht Club. They run weekly cruises on Saturday and Sunday, and their main marina can be found here: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Osprey Ridge/144/106/25

 

Eowyn, I joined that general sailing group so that I could see cruise announcements from a number of clubs and saw an announcement for Rainbow. I sailed with them yesterday and found it to be a world of difference from LCC. I will be trying to join more of their cruises. 

I'm simultaneously gratified that I didn't imagine my experience and disappointed that you had similar experiences with LCC. 

[Tor Karlsvalt]

I was a new sailor in SL not too long ago and fond the LCC to be a wonderful organization full of helpful and generous and diverse people.   Indeed, many of the group make their water parcels available to everyone as rezz zones.   Very likely, one day you will find your self stranded and lost without a boat and looking for a yellow LCC sign on the map where you can rezz.  

Yes the group does get strung out over the course, and some of the courses can be challenging, but that is part of the fun.  

[Ina Fairport]

I started sailing in SL in 2007, I was active in several sailing groups and did some racing with my first avatar.
I am still sailing as a solo cruiser, make my own routes that I share with  friends.

Jammy, I had a similar experience with LCC.  I am not active anymore in any group and became a solo sailor. I can imagine you like the Rainbow group. It is one of the few groups that I liked.

Fair winds for you

Edited February 25, 2022 by Ian Mercury

[kittensusie Landar]

On 7/5/2021 at 11:17 PM, Jammy Voxel said:

While exploring SL18B I stumbled into an exhibit for the Leeward Cruising Club. Their motto: "No one left at the dock!" Being very enthusiastic about sailing, but still mostly a novice, and encouraged by their motto, I decided to join their group and give them a try. I sadly discovered that they have no trouble at all leaving people at the dock.

This club has two sailing events a week followed by a dance. Each event has a particular route that the boats follow. I tried two of these events, and also made a trial run on an upcoming third event. In each case I observed that the sailing routes were not for beginning sailors, and were often quite challenging. In most cases requests for help were met with silence or snobbery from the experts. Rather than enjoy a leisurely cruise, most of the other boaters seemed to consider the route a race to be run through at the fasted possible speed. Other sailors routinely crashed into other boats, not yielding the right of way or engaging in any kind of sportsmanship. At no time did I receive any impression that new members were welcome, nor did anyone reach out.

Well, there was one single exception to this. One person did step up, on my first cruise, and offer quite a bit of help. But for me that just wasn't enough. Perhaps you might have a different experience, and color me butt hurt if you want. I have left that group and will be looking for friendlier waters and more welcoming people to sail with. Suggestions welcome.

Hello Jammy Only just saw this thread as I don't normally 'do' forums and stuff....

I'm sorry that your experiences (and others) with the Leeward Cruising Club were not as good as you expected or as good as I would hope. We always like to see new members joining us and indeed, from what I've witnessed running the Sunday cruises, have never seen anyone being deliberately ignored or given the brush off. We are not a perfect group, obviously, but I like to feel that were are a friendly and helpful group. Whenever I learn that someone is new to the group I (and others) will always welcome them, and if I learn they are also new to sailing then I give them my basic guide to sailing in order to help them get into the sport. I have even spent time later in the week to help people choose a boat or plane (I also co-own the Skyward Flying Club).

As for the routes; I set the easiest wind direction for the cruise so tacking is easily avoided or kept to an absolute minimum. There is also the option of using a different wind direction - it is not set in stone. I have never thought of the routes as being challenging however (though some are easier than others), simply because we do get a number of people who are new to sailing in SL. Yes, some of our members want to finish the cruise asap but the majority just want to have a leisurely sail. Personally I use a fast yacht simply because I start the cruise way after most other people and, since it is evening for me, I want to finish the cruise with enough time left to enjoy the party before I have to log off. The reason why I start the cruise 20 - 30 minutes after the start? Simply because some people like to arrive and start after everyone else has gone so they don't get caught up in the lag. 

Boats colliding is almost inevitable unfortunately, especially at the start of the cruise when lag is at its worst. Mostly when that happens, a shouted "Sorry, was lagging" can be 'heard' coming across the water or an apology appears in group chat. 

If you (or anyone) would like to chat things over in SL, just give me shout (best send a NC as IM's get capped rather quickly

Kittensusie Landar