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things we should have for second life


Nyla2k
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19 minutes ago, Nyla2k said:

i think we should have surveys for our lindens and daily spins because some people cant afford lindens

a little problem might be... the L$ people buy are from other residents, not LL... so who's gonna pay the L$ for your serveys...?

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1 hour ago, Nyla2k said:

i think we should have surveys for our lindens and daily spins because some people cant afford lindens

Omg do you know how much free things that are out there for you an your Avi?. The Avi's now look better than when i started in 2004 then again in 2008.

.....i spent many hours sitting in chairs to earn $L when i first started as well lol. Then i entered my credit card in later when i knew SL wasn't going to be a phase.

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6 hours ago, Nyla2k said:

i think we should have surveys for our lindens and daily spins because some people cant afford lindens

5 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

a little problem might be... the L$ people buy are from other residents, not LL... so who's gonna pay the L$ for your serveys...?

once upon a time it was possible to earn L$ by doing surveys the name hippy/hippiepay comes to mind there were terminals all over the grid i remember them from my noob days in 2008 i did try it out i thought it was a swizz as i never made anything out of it. Found camping devices more successful back then

 

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Posted (edited)

I've a bad idea ....

Create a gun that blasts people across a region. Make it only fire for accounts under 30 days. Pay the shooter L$1 for every confirmed hit. Loadup an account with a few thousand L$ and make a lot of popcorn.

Edited by Coffee Pancake
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10 hours ago, Nyla2k said:

i think we should have surveys for our lindens and daily spins because some people cant afford lindens

Any legitimate way of getting free L$ will be gamed - it always has been and always will be.

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The only way it would work to "give away L$" would be to remove the possibility of cashing out. Every other method leads to criminals creating thousands of accounts to get free money. That's why all the free money stopped. Money trees, camping etc, they weren't giving money to genuine newbies, it was all being robbed by people with thousands of alts. You'd have to prevent cashing out to remove the incentive. 

And that would be the end of creator content in SL. No more cashing out means no more reason for creators to create things and no more stuff to buy.

If that's the kind of game you want, you need to play something else, not SL. Something which has no cashing out, and content created only by the creators of the game.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Maitimo said:

And that would be the end of creator content in SL. No more cashing out means no more reason for creators to create things and no more stuff to buy.

If that's the kind of game you want, you need to play something else, not SL. Something which has no cashing out, and content created only by the creators of the game.

 

i am not sure that this is entirely true.  Yes there will be no commercial creatives (commercial in the sense of getting paid to create art) but I am not sure that the absence of payment (no cash out) will result in no creatives. As there will always be creatives who create non-commercially

one of the effects of non-commercial creative activity is that creative conglomeration is less obtainable. Conglomeration meaning that a particular product line becomes dominated by a few creatives who have a commercial payoff/imperative in maintaining that dominance. When a person has a keen interest in creating an advanced product to dominate a consumer sector then as time goes by, the effort to sustain that domination increases. The difficulty being the sustainable effort needed to maintain dominance when the rewards are intangibles, like love, satisfaction, fame etc

this is not an argument for no cashouts, just that if there were no cashouts then I not sure it would result in there being no creatives on the platform

 

Edited by Mollymews
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13 hours ago, Maitimo said:

The only way it would work to "give away L$" would be to remove the possibility of cashing out. Every other method leads to criminals creating thousands of accounts to get free money. That's why all the free money stopped. Money trees, camping etc, they weren't giving money to genuine newbies, it was all being robbed by people with thousands of alts. You'd have to prevent cashing out to remove the incentive. 

And that would be the end of creator content in SL. No more cashing out means no more reason for creators to create things and no more stuff to buy.

If that's the kind of game you want, you need to play something else, not SL. Something which has no cashing out, and content created only by the creators of the game.

 

It seems to me that the problem could be easily solved by restricting cashing out to a special type of account. Such accounts would have to meet additional requirements. At a minimum, they would have to provide verifiable RL identification and be a premium account. I think those requirements alone would be enough to eliminate gaming of systems intended to give new residents small amounts of money.

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Posted (edited)

Well, I feel like Linden Lab has underestimated their duty to implement a civilized grid, and so it's probably up to we denizens of this virtopia to institute our own system of government to displace their power vacuum wherever needs go so badly unmet as it seems they may.

We need awareness. Right now, people are divided. They're isolated. They disappear into information "black holes" and don't come back out. We need to try to figure out where the event horizons are and find accounts of people who have fallen in, possibly memorialize as needed, alternately advertise how others might fall in if that's a happy fate.

We need to provide the underpinnings to support a healthy society here if we expect for there to be a healthy society here. People turn to this place because they're isolated in first life, whether they live in central PA, in the redneck foothills of Colorado, or deep behind enemy lines in Arizona, or whatever personal hells in which people find themselves trapped-- Second Life was always the main avenue of escape after the MUSH scene died. There should be places that people can turn to for help with issues on or off the grid, societies that won't turn them away or tell them they're wrong when they aren't. People are wandering our would with spiritual wounds, and all I see are people denying realities, virtual or otherwise, hard.

When there are grievances, there should be a way to air them and seek redress. The people demand justice and yet there are no courts ever called to session. 

We all know First Life is basically turning into an apocalypse fast, and we need to talk about it in real terms. How can we use this technology to organize ourselves to live well, in love and light, when it's like all paths to that are being blocked by some new  establishment who has no such right? Second Life can be our revolution, it can be our way out. Let's help each other escape this trap they're laying for all the world.

Edited by Chroma Starlight
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1 minute ago, Chroma Starlight said:

Well, I feel like Linden Lab has underestimated their duty to implement a civilized grid, and so it's probably up to we denizens of this virtopia to institute our own system of government to displace their power vacuum wherever needs go so badly unmet as it seems they may.

No no no .. we've had that. They dressed up as super heros and ran a protection racket.

1 minute ago, Chroma Starlight said:

We need awareness. Right now, people are divided. They're isolated. They disappear into information "black holes" and don't come back out. We need to try to figure out where the event horizons are and find accounts of people who have fallen in, possibly memorialize as needed, alternately advertise how others might fall in if that's a happy fate.

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1 minute ago, Chroma Starlight said:

We need to provide the underpinnings to support a healthy society here if we expect for there to be a healthy society here. People turn to this place because they're isolated and Second Life, whether they live in central PA, in the redneck foothills of Colorado, or deep behind enemy lines in Arizona, and it's shocking that so often all Second Life provides us is more isolation. There should be place that people can turn to for help with issues on or off the grid, societies that won't turn them away or tell them they're wrong when they aren't. People are wandering our would with spiritual wounds, and all I see are people denying realities, virtual or otherwise, hard.

Maybe we like peace and quiet.

1 minute ago, Chroma Starlight said:

When there are grievances, there should be a way to air them and seek redress. The people demand justice and yet there are no courts ever called to session. 

Courts only function because the state forces people to attend.

1 minute ago, Chroma Starlight said:

We all know First Life is basically turning into an apocalypse fast, and we need to talk about it in real terms. How can we use this technology to organize ourselves to live well, in love and light, when it's like all paths to that are being blocked by some new  establishment who has no such right? Second Life can be our revolution, it can be our way out. Let's help each other escape this trap they're laying for all the world.

Who, exactly, are "they" ?

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13 hours ago, Maitimo said:

The only way it would work to "give away L$" would be to remove the possibility of cashing out. 

Remove cashing out and you just create a black markets where L$ are traded in world for paypal or venmo. See WoW gold for how bad this can get.

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12 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

No no no .. we've had that. They dressed up as super heros and ran a protection racket.

Graphic-for-Failure-Qootes.png

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Maybe we like peace and quiet.

How could you possibly hope for there to be peace or quiet without the underpinnings of a healthy society somewhere in the picture? You have people showing up here in relatively good condition, and getting devastated solely by grid content and there are entities operating here who can achieve great harm when given free reign and little avenue of recourse or recovery for their targets of interest. 

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Courts only function because the state forces people to attend.

That's because people aren't well-compensated enough to just attend trials at courts (which are not conveniently located or particularly pandemic-safe) without risking considerable consequence to their lives. There are many possible solutions; the best one would be to elevate everyone to a point where they have a realistic ability to participate in justice without it being a hard loss to them and theirs. The next-best would be to just make the compensation for the jury as high as attorneys' per hour. You'll attract skillful jurists fast, hoping to win selection...

 

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Who, exactly, are "they" ?

Mostly I'd wager it must be powerful men whose crooked interests align concurrently. It's as if theirs is a vast field these days because they've mainstreamed so many elements of their cult(ure) in the minds of the unwary or isolated. 

 

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1 hour ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

It seems to me that the problem could be easily solved by restricting cashing out to a special type of account. Such accounts would have to meet additional requirements. At a minimum, they would have to provide verifiable RL identification and be a premium account. I think those requirements alone would be enough to eliminate gaming of systems intended to give new residents small amounts of money.

They already require verifiable RL information to cash out these days.  Requiring Premium would piss off a lot of folks. There are many merchants that already cash-out that are not Premium and they'd probably get super ticked if they started losing $99 yearly because they suddenly had to pay for Premium.  

Besides, folks would still create automated alt accounts to gather up the freebie L$ and then just transfer all of the money to one or more verified accounts for cashing out.

Where there is a will there is a way.  Free L$ will get gamed.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Chroma Starlight said:

Graphic-for-Failure-Qootes.png

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - not Albert Einstein 

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How could you possibly hope for there to be peace or quiet without the underpinnings of a healthy society somewhere in the picture? You have people showing up here in relatively good condition, and getting devastated solely by grid content and there are entities operating here who can achieve great harm when given free reign and little avenue of recourse or recovery for their targets of interest. 

The whole point of peace and quiet is that it doesn't require a social component. Amazingly, this is entirely possible to achieve in SL.

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That's because people aren't well-compensated enough to just attend trials at courts (which are not conveniently located or particularly pandemic-safe) without risking considerable consequence to their lives. There are many possible solutions; the best one would be to elevate everyone to a point where they have a realistic ability to participate in justice without it being a hard loss to them and theirs. The next-best would be to just make the compensation for the jury as high as attorneys' per hour. You'll attract skillful jurists fast, hoping to win selection...

I was primarily referring to the person on trial. What are you hoping for .. a Linden to bring the accused and stop them from leaving or logging out? 😂

 

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Mostly I'd wager it must be powerful men whose crooked interests align concurrently. It's as if theirs is a vast field these days because they've mainstreamed so many elements of their cult(ure) in the minds of the unwary or isolated. 

Ah .. so all the worlds ills can be tracked back to shadowy men (specifically men!) hatching grand schemes .. not the natural outcomes of systemic social realities.

Well, best of luck with that.

Edited by Coffee Pancake
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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - not Albert Einstein 

tumblr_luy0r9Apmk1r23ct1o1_500.gif

So... If you don't pull this off the first time you set foot on a skateboard, you just aren't punk material?

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The whole point of peace and quiet is that it doesn't require a social component. Amazingly, this is entirely possible to achieve in SL.

Peace and quiet is not in short supply on Second Life. It never really was, although any neighbor can seem too loud if the walls aren't built right to stop sound, if they build their home with pieces that have been poorly integrated with the surroundings. The mainland is sort of a group collaboration. In a virtual world, you have an infinite amount of peace and quiet, just so long as people coexist, respect nature (even in virtual form), and one another. It's fun to harmonize.

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I was primarily referring to the person on trial. What are you hoping for .. a Linden to bring the accused and stop them from leaving or logging out? 😂

The point isn't punishment and participation could be voluntary, but the rulings binding. 

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Ah .. so all the worlds ills can be tracked back to shadowy men (specifically men!) hatching grand schemes .. not the natural outcomes of systemic social realities.

They incubate the social realities; often their three ring binders depend upon those unbalanced dynamics in order to operate. It's usually men. What is it about that, is it because so many of them come from cultures where they're dissociated from nurturing life long term and so they've lost all perspective, or is it that in their innocence they don't see how one brick among many stacks up to a wall between mankind and paradise. Something like this, I suppose. 
 

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Well, best of luck with that.

I will not turn down good fortune, but it's more a question of expectation, isn't it? Believe you are blessed, and believe in the power of positive belief. No, really. 

Edited by Chroma Starlight
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Posted (edited)

We need more parameters to control the tree prims and get some truly awesome and dynamic new trees. We need weather, and rain that won't fall through solid things. We should be able to go into minecraft mode, and just start mining below our home, or gathering resources from the area. We should be able to wear VR goggles if we want. Everything should be AI-augmented to the degree it's spoopy, and the sense of magic should be overwhelming, fun, engaging. There should be way more sound and music-related things. Communities of titans and tinies built on their scale; virtual Tokyo streets teeming with life, armies of toons, animals, anthropomorphic appliances. It's strange none of these things are happening. We need the stars with so much detail you need a telescope in-world to see it all. How about a moon we can actually fly to? Cities in caves or under oceans or floating like terraced gardens in the sky. Why can't we have any of these wonderful things? 

Edited by Chroma Starlight
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34 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

not social reform.

This isn't even that.

1 hour ago, Chroma Starlight said:

We need more parameters to control the tree prims and get some truly awesome and dynamic new trees.

See user created trees. Linden 'special' trees aren't even used on Linden builds.

1 hour ago, Chroma Starlight said:

We need weather, and rain that won't fall through solid things.

We need a new particle system.

1 hour ago, Chroma Starlight said:

We should be able to go into minecraft mode, and just start mining below our home, or gathering resources from the area.

And do what with the whatever's under your home ?

There is no reason why you can't make a resource gathering and crafting mini game in SL. The hardest part is planning out the system beyond broad strokes.

1 hour ago, Chroma Starlight said:

We should be able to wear VR goggles if we want.

That's not going to happen without a render pipeline rebuild, The current system is only good if you want to experience immersive headaches and vomiting.

Once (if) LL get round to (maybe) doing something vulkan, then we can come back around to this. It wouldn't be hard to add then and might work well, but we're a long way off from that being a possibility.

1 hour ago, Chroma Starlight said:

Everything should be AI-augmented to the degree it's spoopy, and the sense of magic should be overwhelming, fun, engaging.

AI render upscaling, like DLSS .. see above.

Other things AI .. well that's problematic, AI and machine learning is very contextual in nature and SL doesn't provide a uniform (or even sane) canvas for it to work on.

What would you even want an AI do to? There has to be a need before someone can invent the thing to fill the need.

 

1 hour ago, Chroma Starlight said:

There should be way more sound and music-related things.

Go ahead and make them.

1 hour ago, Chroma Starlight said:

Communities of titans and tinies built on their scale; virtual Tokyo streets teeming with life, armies of toons, animals, anthropomorphic appliances. It's strange none of these things are happening. We need the stars with so much detail you need a telescope in-world to see it all. How about a moon we can actually fly to? Cities in caves or under oceans or floating like terraced gardens in the sky. Why can't we have any of these wonderful things? 

Tiny builds are totally possible, difficult to navigate with the SL camera, but possible.

Titan builds run into draw distance, region size and interest list issues, changing how those things work would make SL bad for everyone else.

Build a telescope, it doesn't need to (and shouldn't) function like a real world one. The zooming in forever can be done inside the scope.

Build Tokyo.

Make toon avatars and so one. SL allows all of these things.

 

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6 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

This isn't even that.

Parts of it were or seemed to be.

 

3 hours ago, Chroma Starlight said:

There are many possible solutions; the best one would be to elevate everyone to a point where they have a realistic ability to participate in justice without it being a hard loss to them and theirs. The next-best would be to just make the compensation for the jury as high as attorneys' per hour. You'll attract skillful jurists fast, hoping to win selection...

But yeah, it's all over the place.  You're a better person than I in trying to decipher it.

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I wouldn't entirely be opposed if SL had some sort of way for newbies to obtain free L very slowly, and that's coming from someone who's a creator and has passive income.

I feel like if done well, it could be a really good way to retain new players and give them something to work toward just by being in-world; one of the biggest reasons for newbies dropping SL aside from the interface being a bit counterintuitive is the lack of a "goal" per se and everything feeling overwhelmingly expensive.

Like, I wouldn't at all be opposed to optional Dailies being added like what you'd see in MMOs. Something as simple as earning a tiny bit of L every day you log in consecutively. Maybe after logging in every day for a week you get 1L-7L depending on what you did in those days? The Destination guide is a thing and a bit outdated; could always get more traffic to locations by there being a daily to visit x specified Destination to earn a linden you'd get by the end of the week, etc. If you don't go visit it, you don't get anything, so it's totally optional and there's a bit of work you'd have to put in + some added incentive to explore the world.

Could always have it so that you don't get your payout if you break your "streak" and don't log in, therefore having to restart.

 

Of course, these are all just suggestions/ideas; I definitely know this would get wonky with alt accounts and people using bots and could be abused, which is why I proposed Dailies and such. They could be a bit more complex than just "go to x destination" to make it a bit more difficult/obnoxious for people to farm with alts, but not totally sure. Though just as with anything, it's not totally foolproof and that's the biggest issue when it comes to this sort of thing.

I would also say that the L earned in this way should absolutely be account-bound in some sense so you can't transfer it or cash it out, but that'd probably be a huge nightmare to work into the existing system.

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2 hours ago, Chroma Starlight said:

Mysterious waters patch

Adds sea serpents, fish, and all manner of fleeting strange life to the depths of the biggest oceans on the grid.

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Okaaaay.... These are all interesting ideas, but I think that sea serpents aren't really related to how new folks (or old, don't have to be new) can make some passive, albeit small amount of linden$.... 😏

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