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Posted (edited)

Daniel Voyager has done an excellent article on the New User Experience Welcome Islands and - yes - a "Welcome Back" Island for us oldbies.  There is a new user guide available on the Second Life Viewer as well.

One thing bothers me, to quote Daniel Voyager "This weekend it appears Linden Lab are bringing in new residents through the new Welcome Island in Second Life when using the default Second Life viewer." - is this experience and the guidebook going to be open to those who are using other viewing systems? Anyone know?

Welcome Island: The New User Experience Goes Live – Daniel Voyager (wordpress.com)

Edited by Rufferta
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Just visited "Welcome Back" Island. It is very pretty, but doesn't answer my old questions and even gives me some new questions. Perhaps it is not yet finished,.

New Question:  Why are there avatars on rotating platforms looking like a slave auction?

Old Questions (from RipVanWinkle Resident)

What is this mesh stuff?

What is bento, rigging, blender, etc....?

What is that strange mass of land between two continents that wasn't there before?

What is a Bellisserian? 

Perhaps this would be a good place to put up that excellent "Wheel of Time" currently at SL18B that shows changes through the years, only concentrating on information that might be useful to residents who have been gone for a while.

A great start, though, I'm sure that there are many new changes in the works and I'm always glad to know that Linden Lab has been listening to residents. 

Snapshot _ Welcome Back Island, Welcome Back Island (162, 104, .jpg

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Rufferta said:

"This weekend it appears Linden Lab are bringing in new residents through the new Welcome Island in Second Life when using the default Second Life viewer."

I created a new alt somewhat recently, and when I logged in for the first time (on a non-firestorm TPV) I got sent to Firestorm's help island. It seems the 1st time login region is a viewer-setting of some sort, and I personally don't think that's such a bad thing. People logging in for the first time on Firestorm (i.e. probably a returning resident, or at least someone with an already established SL friend) probably don't need the exact experience as someone logging for the first time on the official viewer.

Edited by Quistess Alpha
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19 hours ago, Rufferta said:

Daniel Voyager has done an excellent article on the New User Experience Welcome Islands and - yes - a "Welcome Back" Island for us oldbies.  There is a new user guide available on the Second Life Viewer as well.

One thing bothers me, to quote Daniel Voyager "This weekend it appears Linden Lab are bringing in new residents through the new Welcome Island in Second Life when using the default Second Life viewer." - is this experience and the guidebook going to be open to those who are using other viewing systems? Anyone know?

Welcome Island: The New User Experience Goes Live – Daniel Voyager (wordpress.com)

I wonder why the scenes look so overexposed and washed out. They remind me of architectural drawings of 1950s suburbia.

I do hope they've removed that bit where the newbie literally has to jump over chasms on cliffs.

The question is: at the end of the tutorial, where does the system send you? and how?

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Posted (edited)

.... The Blog images were likely taken with an EEP setting that causes such overexposure. The actual scene isn't quite so bad when using the default, Shared Environment. Still a bit bright but not that bright.

I don't use the defaults though .... I use one called Guardian.

ETA: Now with that said .... I do hope the one for actual new users has a lot more information at hand. The Orientation Island/Help Island system and their public counterparts at least allowed you to go back through a then identical to the initial onboarding experience region to let you recap/brush up.

Unless there is some item or something else I am missing - perhaps requiring the use of a Viewer that simply does not exist for my OS (LL's Linux View was discontinued back during the version 5 cycle - it should not be present as a Download at all and running the Windows version through WINE should not ever be a "serious workaround" presented to anyone) - the Welcome Back Island might be arranged in the same manner with some of the same design elements but ... Walking around right now, I am seeing relatively little in the way of information and little to make clickable objects stand out either.

Edited by Solar Legion
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28 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

 

The question is: at the end of the tutorial, where does the system send you? and how?

For my visit to "Welcome Back" Island a board suggested using the Destination Guide to find the next stop. The first offer was some place called "The Dive Shop" - not sure what to make of that - the good part was that the instructions were in multiple languages.

Anyone know if they are still also sending new residents to the Gateway locations?

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

.... The Blog images were likely taken with an EEP setting that causes such overexposure. The actual scene isn't quite so bad when using the default, Shared Environment. Still a bit bright but not that bright.

I don't use the defaults though .... I use one called Guardian.

ETA: Now with that said .... I do hope the one for actual new users has a lot more information at hand. The Orientation Island/Help Island system and their public counterparts at least allowed you to go back through a then identical to the initial onboarding experience region to let you recap/brush up.

Unless there is some item or something else I am missing - perhaps requiring the use of a Viewer that simply does not exist for my OS (LL's Linux View was discontinued back during the version 5 cycle - it should not be present as a Download at all and running the Windows version through WINE should not ever be a "serious workaround" presented to anyone) - the Welcome Back Island might be arranged in the same manner with some of the same design elements but ... Walking around right now, I am seeing relatively little in the way of information and little to make clickable objects stand out either.

If you want to know what new users see, I'd suggest you visit with a copy of the latest official viewer, using its default settings, since that's what they'll be using.  

That will include a guidebook floater, which is a new feature you can't yet see with other viewers which don't yet have it.

1e40e0277b669ad92f4e52cbe82a358c.jpg

 

918c835604880ca69f632511d66af6fd.png

 

Edited by Innula Zenovka
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Posted (edited)

I'm not sure any help, welcome, or orientation centers can prepare a true FNG for what SL is today. When I came on in '08 is was far simpler. Get  shape and skin so you could lose the default Ruth avatar.  Start collecting free clothes, till you got a gig. 

With BoM, mesh, multiple bodies, heads, extremities,  alphas, appliers, and so on, it is not as easy.

Often times it takes a bit of time to set down and help a FNG. And they need it. Badly

Edited by Doris Johnsky
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7 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

If you want to know what new users see, I'd suggest you visit with a copy of the latest official viewer, using its default settings, since that's what they'll be using.  

That will include a guidebook floater, which is a new feature you can't yet see with other viewers which don't yet have it.

1e40e0277b669ad92f4e52cbe82a358c.jpg

 

918c835604880ca69f632511d66af6fd.png

 

What part of there is no Official Viewer for Linux is difficult to understand?

Now if that floater is going to make its way into TPVs eventually - great.

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Last time I checked there was no law that people who develop something for MS Windows have to do the same for Linux and every other thinkable OS.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:

What part of there is no Official Viewer for Linux is difficult to understand?

I understand that it means people using Linux won't see the same thing as people using the official viewer do, any more than people running Firestorm or Catznip on Windows will see it.

If LL were making a particular effort to attract new users who run Linux for preference, I can see why that would be a problem.

 

Edited by Innula Zenovka
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1 minute ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I understand that it means people using Linux won't see the same thing as people using the official viewer do, any more than people running Firestorm or Catznip on Windows will see it.

If LL were making a particular effort to attract new users who run Linux for preference, I can see why that would be a problem.

 

Either they intend users on Linux to be able to use Second Life or they do not. If the latter remove it from the Downloads page and remove its entry (while updating the rest) from System Requirements.

Sorry - no pass is given here. At all.

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20 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Last time I checked there was no law that people who develop something for MS Windows have to do the same for Linux and every other thinkable OS.

Last time I checked, if you're going to have it listed on your official Downloads page and a set of System Requirements for it (the rest of that page being out of date being a whole other problem) then you'd better be prepared to keep things up to date.

If not remove it.

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7 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Either they intend users on Linux to be able to use Second Life or they do not. If the latter remove it from the Downloads page and remove its entry (while updating the rest) from System Requirements.

Sorry - no pass is given here. At all.

Have you tried creating a new account and logging in with it using Linux?    Where do you land?

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3 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Have you tried creating a new account and logging in with it using Linux?    Where do you land?

No - It. Is. Out. Of. Date.

Allowed to log in using it or not, being even remotely functional or not ... is not very relevant. Having a Viewer that was last updated almost four years ago now, just after Animesh was released as their "Official" download is inexcusable.

I can see some older TPVs still having access (Lumiya still can) .... but not an "Official" Viewer.

Now can you please stop?

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

No - It. Is. Out. Of. Date.

Allowed to log in using it or not, being even remotely functional or not ... is not very relevant. Having a Viewer that was last updated almost four years ago now, just after Animesh was released as their "Official" download is inexcusable.

I can see some older TPVs still having access (Lumiya still can) .... but not an "Official" Viewer.

Now can you please stop?

Since Learning Island is still open (I've just looked at the map, and there are several green dots there), I assume that if people aren't using the latest Official Viewer they're probably sent there still.    

But would it be fair to say that  your point is more about LL not maintaining an official Linux viewer than about the new user experience and Welcome Island?   (I'm simply trying to understand your main concern).

Edited by Innula Zenovka
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3 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Since Learning Island is still open (I've just looked at the map, and there are several green dots there), I assume that if people aren't using the latest Official Viewer they're probably sent there still.    

But would it be fair to say that  your point is more about LL not maintaining an official Linux viewer than about the new user experience and Welcome Island?   (I'm simply trying to understand your main concern).

You'd be much closer to the mark with that, yes.

While possibly few and far between .... A New User on Linux should still have an up to date Official Viewer as opposed to having to decide on a TPV from the very beginning.

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3 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

A New User on Linux should still have an up to date Official Viewer

As much as I dislike it, you don't get something for nothing. The old linux viewer "works" well enough to have gotten me (and hopefully people like me) on-boarded, and that's all it needs to do. Keeping a viewer up-to-date for a different OS costs LL developer-time. I for one would rather see that time spent on something that makes SL better for everyone, not just the small group of linux users who are too new to know that TPVs are a thing.

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On 7/5/2021 at 3:56 PM, Quistess Alpha said:

As much as I dislike it, you don't get something for nothing. The old linux viewer "works" well enough to have gotten me (and hopefully people like me) on-boarded, and that's all it needs to do. Keeping a viewer up-to-date for a different OS costs LL developer-time. I for one would rather see that time spent on something that makes SL better for everyone, not just the small group of linux users who are too new to know that TPVs are a thing.

Spent over a decade maintaining a build of the LLviewer for  Linux.  I maintain and build all non-common  pre-built libraies to build and have directions how to build it.

This is the LL code 99.9 percent .  The source code and all commits just like LL is open to the public.

It will build in the  gcc 5.5.0  to gcc 10.3.0 as of right now. In the link I supplied you can see the source and click the download .

I believe the big Thing was vivox and now I agree with LL why maintain a non functional native voice.  Everyday  you will still see in LL commits Linux is still well thought of.

 My belief it is a must to as you can see in LL commits they  create the code that is Linux in mind. One day I am sure things will have to be built on powerful  ARMS cpu's

this will lead you back to Linux.  LL has done a wonderful job keeping this very close for Linux. Most of the times it is minor tweaks.

Yes All the media works in my build. You have  abillity for native 32bit voice or install wine64 bit and go into debugs setting set to use wine SLvoice. then reboot.

 You can thank NickyD of Firestorm for this. FS team and the Kokua team are some of the finest teams and viewers in here.  but if you want the latest

up to date Linux LL viewer you will need to download it from my bitbucket.  You will not be able to upload mesh.

If your a diehard linux user like me you can use the latest wow-wine Wine 6.0  and  install the windows version. you will not be able to use many things but voice and 

mesh upload works. None of your search will work because chromium embedded  "CEF3" browser will not run in wine.

wine  is a true layer  not an emulator  WINE stands for wine is not an emulator.

Edited by Drakeo
wine not windows. spelling
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As a Linux user myself, having a third party take care of Linux support makes the most sense. LL has more important things to do yet a Linux port is helpful to a good amount of members of the community. I think if you are motivated enough to install Linux that you won't have problems figuring out lots of SL on your own.

I really like the floater guidebook, it's a really nice concept that'll help. There should be some focus on building though. Looking at that a new user wouldn't know you can build. I would think even just mentioning something about the user generated content and building would be a good start. Maybe someone would TP around to a bunch of empty sims and think there's nothing there, but if people were diverted to a building tutorial and sandbox if they wanted it would help retain users who want to make things.

SL is unique because of the user generated content. It's a double edged sword. In a typical MMO, the developers add more content and servers when they need to. SL has people buying servers so they can just make stuff. MMOs are always filled up because they build to meet demand. SL is empty a lot because people are building trying to attract people. I think a huge problem new users have is going to explore and finding empty places. They need more reasons to stay in SL than just being social and looking good.

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