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How Many Old Linden Home Regions and How Many Bellisseria Regions


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I believe Moles have actually answered this question at times, but the answer is deep within threads of hundreds of pages and not up to date. Or maybe they don't give it out?

Tyche's survey can't capture this information (it's last given for 2017 apparently when there was a definitive statement on it, but in terms of parcels, not regions), I suppose because the sims don't have any identifying information on them to distinguish them from other Mainland sims. Private islands and homesteads have that status as a feature displayed on them. 

But I'm going to guess there are 1500 Bellisseria regions and 500 Linden homes. If there are 6806 Mainland sims (and that number includes Linden Homes), I'm going to guess some 1806 are Linden homes, old or new. Why? Because I remember these surveys for some years, and I recall that for a time before Bellisseria the figure was at 5000. Lindens don't create and auction brand-new Mainland region anymore, so I think Bellisseria has to be at least this much.

Are you fixated on the terms "region" and "sims". They are interchangeable despite the language police. But I'll tell you the difference. A "region" is what Linden lab technically creates and hosts at AWS. A "sim" is what a resident does with that region afterward. 

 

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At one point, very early on, Patch commented in an interview that he needed roughly 30,000 Linden Homes just to replace the existing ones.  One could probably figure out a rough guess of the average number of homes per region and then figure out approx. the number of regions based on that info.

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4 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

But I'm going to guess there are 1500 Bellisseria regions and 500 Linden homes. If there are 6806 Mainland sims (and that number includes Linden Homes), I'm going to guess some 1806 are Linden homes, old or new. Why? Because I remember these surveys for some years, and I recall that for a time before Bellisseria the figure was at 5000. Lindens don't create and auction brand-new Mainland region anymore, so I think Bellisseria has to be at least this much.

I'm not sure of the exact number, but it's well over 5,000 already, probably closer to 20,000 (at least) new Belli homes and I'm pretty sure that @LittleMe Jewell 's numbers for the original needed replacement homes is close, but since then, the number of replacement homes and homes for New Premium Members homes has probably has a pretty dramatic increase since Bellisseria was first announced and everyone was scrambling to grab them and upgrading to Premium just to get one, plus the dramatic rise in daily Users online by around 20,000 per day since the pandemic happened... I think the Moles will be pretty busy for a while yet.  Even with Patch's commitment to provide all of the originally planned themes released (or announced) by the end of 2021, there may be even more possible themes needed just to keep abreast of the growing number Premium Member housing requirements. 

I think that Bellisseria will have to grow a LOT more if the projections for new active accounts in the next 5 - 10 are met and that Bellisseria will be a priority until there are enough homes.  That number may continue to grow in bursts ad infinitum and need a full time crew of Moles from now on.  Hopefully at some point new Mainland will move up in the list of priorities and the unfinished edges will be completed.  Patch will do what is best for Second Life and I completely trust that will mean what is ultimately best for us as Residents.  After all is said and done, we are paying LL to provide us with this platform and happy customers are paying customers ♥  Further to that, any successful business operation is a balanced one between happy customers and happy employees.  Personally, I have never met an unhappy Linden.  I've seen them happy, sad, concerned, firm and always in complete professional control.  Everyone has good days and bad days but I certainly believe that there are many more good days than bad days, even when nothing goes as expected in SL.  I've not met a Linden who doesn't love their job even among those who have had to leave.  Business success for LL will only mean success for Second Life and part of that will mean things evolve.  Everything must adapt or be left behind... and that's a very healthy, good thing. ♥

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Comparing the number of old Linden Homes regions with the number of new Linden Homes regions isn't going to give you a number that means very much. The old Linden Homes have a higher parcel density because the parcels themselves are smaller and it varies from region to region and theme to theme. It's really apples to oranges so any number you get from that method is honestly about as accurate as guessing how many M&M's are in an oddly shaped jar. 

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37 minutes ago, Abnor Mole said:

Comparing the number of old Linden Homes regions with the number of new Linden Homes regions isn't going to give you a number that means very much. The old Linden Homes have a higher parcel density because the parcels themselves are smaller and it varies from region to region and theme to theme. It's really apples to oranges so any number you get from that method is honestly about as accurate as guessing how many M&M's are in an oddly shaped jar. 

we should be able to get a ballpark figure tho shouldn't we ?  Counting only the regions with homes on ?  Like if there are 30,000 old homes and roughly say average 15 new Belli homes to a region, then 30,000 / 15 is 2,000 regions plus filler aesthetic regions (water, etc)

you guys (LDPW) must have a tally of how many Belli homes have been built so far.  And there must be some ballpark total number that is being worked toward (give or take a 100 or two regions) ?  Even if that ballpark total is being constantly reviewed given the increase in new Premium accounts being created

 

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8 hours ago, Abnor Mole said:

Comparing the number of old Linden Homes regions with the number of new Linden Homes regions isn't going to give you a number that means very much. The old Linden Homes have a higher parcel density because the parcels themselves are smaller and it varies from region to region and theme to theme. It's really apples to oranges so any number you get from that method is honestly about as accurate as guessing how many M&M's are in an oddly shaped jar. 

Does anyone know how many Bellisseria regions there are today on the grid and how many new Linden homes there are now ? What's the goal amount to reach for new homes ? 

Thanks. 

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12 hours ago, Abnor Mole said:

Comparing the number of old Linden Homes regions with the number of new Linden Homes regions isn't going to give you a number that means very much. The old Linden Homes have a higher parcel density because the parcels themselves are smaller and it varies from region to region and theme to theme. It's really apples to oranges so any number you get from that method is honestly about as accurate as guessing how many M&M's are in an oddly shaped jar

427...426...425...424...nom nom nom...0

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5 hours ago, Daniel Voyager said:

Does anyone know how many Bellisseria regions there are today on the grid and how many new Linden homes there are now ? What's the goal amount to reach for new homes ? 

Thanks. 

I’m sure a Linden can tell you the exact figure since every home is connected to the database. I wish @Patch Linden could update us again on how many homes of each theme is available or released. 

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This thread has some early announcements of numbers of homes and Regions but then the announcements including numbers trailed off, I assume with a very good reason.  We probably don't need to know the facts and figures which inevitably lead to Residents obsessing and speculating about how well they are (or are not) doing what we expect or want because...  we pay LL to look after those Math-y things for us ♥

@Matthieu Quander  (and my abacus broke... so I put all the counters in an odd-shaped jar right here somewhere... dammit) 

Edited by BJoyful
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, BJoyful said:

@Prokofy Neva  http://www.gridsurvey.com/ <--- there's loads of numbers on here.  I first found this info in one of @Inara Pey's invaluable blogs.  Thank you very much Inara Pey for everything you do making Second Life a little more understandable for Noobs and Oldbies alike ♥♥♥

Yes, Tyche does a wonderful job, I cited her survey in my original post as you can see. The problem is as I noted that Bellisseria sims are not somehow marked so as to be able to stand out in a survey. She notes that she includes Bellisseria (all Linden homes, old and new) in the overall Mainland figures. The Lindens themselves keep saying Bellisseria is "not" mainland but this is arguable as you can reach it by flying or sailing from the Mainland. The sims are no different, i.e. not like private islands or homestead with different features and labels.

So she herself cannot indicate the difference between old Mainland and Linden Homes, old and new. She puts  a figure from 2017 when the number of *parcels* were known. 

Thus, I am making an estimate, going back to her surveys from 2010 in which the number of Mainland regions was 5446, and comparing to her figures now, which put Mainland regions at 6806. So the figure of 1,306 -- the difference between Tyche's record of Mainland from 2021 versus 2010 -- is not all Linden homes, because some of that represents abandoned land that was previously in Linden hands and which residents purchased.

I disagree that old Mainland will ever move up in the list of priorities. In the Lindens' perception (speaking not by reading their minds but watching their deeds), the Mainland is "done". They rolled out the sims, landscaped them, came back some years later and re-did some of the roads and bridges considerably and added some parks, and that was that, there was no "finishing" Corsica which was "unfinished" -- they moved on to Bellisseria and that's it. While it would be great if they came back and fixed lumpy prims roads suffering prim drift, and replaced ancient trees and grass with much prettier items, and even used their willingness to put out resident content (like lemonade that actually gives a glass), they aren't going to be doing this, no doubt because they are busy working on Bellisseria, which seems open-ended, and they want to draw customers to that area, not old Mainland viewed as blighted. All of Silicon Valley wants you to buy the latest cell phone or computer, they don't want you to keep using and fixing one you bought 10 years ago. It's not just planned obsolescence; it's coerced obsolescence which you are supposed to not feel as the newer things are shinier and work better.

Mainland owners are less than 12% of the overall number of regions, if you factor in islands (there are 26,000 regions total of which 6800 are Mainland, of which about 53% are owned by LL, leaving 47% or 3,186 owned by residents), and that number dwindles further if you compare Bellisseria customers to Mainland customers -- it's neglible. The "adapt or else" Silicon Valley ethos isn't one that users have to adapt, and in fact some companies, like Facebook, want to "move fast and break things" but when enough customers object, there are Congressional hearings and EuroParliament hearings and laws change and suddenly companies find themselves under scrutiny and face legal action. So I don't accept that as a given. Linden Lab is tiny compared to those giants and in fact doesn't share their culture in many important ways. But the "adapt or else" diktat of software is one they do emphasize -- until they lose enough customers.

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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17 hours ago, Abnor Mole said:

Comparing the number of old Linden Homes regions with the number of new Linden Homes regions isn't going to give you a number that means very much. The old Linden Homes have a higher parcel density because the parcels themselves are smaller and it varies from region to region and theme to theme. It's really apples to oranges so any number you get from that method is honestly about as accurate as guessing how many M&M's are in an oddly shaped jar. 

OK, that's for sure, and few people are doing to sit and count every region, it's too hard. So you could just tell us how many regions hold old Linden Homes and how many Bellisseria. I think reading Tyche for 10 years gives you an answer of some 1500+ regions as the largest possible number (the difference between Mainland in 2010 and Mainland today, which includes Bellisseria in her surveys as the sims are not marked differently). But it's likely less, since you have to factor in abandoned land purchased since that time as well.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, BJoyful said:

This thread has some early announcements of numbers of homes and Regions but then the announcements including numbers trailed off, I assume with a very good reason.  We probably don't need to know the facts and figures which inevitably lead to Residents obsessing and speculating about how well they are (or are not) doing what we expect or want because...  we pay LL to look after those Math-y things for us ♥

@Matthieu Quander  (and my abacus broke... so I put all the counters in an odd-shaped jar right here somewhere... dammit) 

But why can't resident speculate about how well not only all of Second Life is doing, but how well Bellisseria is doing, compared to Mainland, their old, obsolete product (tied to their original ideology which has been "updated").

In fact, why can't they be *told* this information. I'm not getting this requirement that people must be passive and in the dark. It's especially unnecessary when you compare the policies of Linden Lab from its first five years, when it gave out these statistics constantly:

o number of premium accounts

o number of people inworld concurrently

o number of sign-ups

o number of monthly unique log-ons

o number of people spending more than US $1.00 going up to $5000 per month.

And so on.

All of that was removed. As a private company, they are not required to provide any information. It's only in comparison to their original transparency that this stands out.

 

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Mollymews said:

we should be able to get a ballpark figure tho shouldn't we ?  Counting only the regions with homes on ?  Like if there are 30,000 old homes and roughly say average 15 new Belli homes to a region, then 30,000 / 15 is 2,000 regions plus filler aesthetic regions (water, etc)

you guys (LDPW) must have a tally of how many Belli homes have been built so far.  And there must be some ballpark total number that is being worked toward (give or take a 100 or two regions) ?  Even if that ballpark total is being constantly reviewed given the increase in new Premium accounts being created

 

Yes, I think 2000 is likely the outside ballpark figure; I gave 1500 in my math, which doesn't all these easements put in -- there are a lot more of them it seems to me in Bellisseria, and of course more prims and less houses per sim. 

Another way to put this (again see the math above which I base on Tyche's surveys, although it's important to note that she herself doesn't make these estimates and doesn't publish past years or make charts of them -- I went on archive.org): half of the Mainland is Bellisseria and old Linden Homes now -- and the Lindens don't even view it as Mainland. So call it "half the non-private island/homestead sims are now Bellisseria" if that makes you feel better and it shows you where old Mainland stands -- it has dramatically dwindled in importance and even as a place where residents log in. 

The Lindens have no plan for the Mainland -- and maybe that's a good thing, because any "plan" would no doubt include "destruction in part or whole". When you ask Moles -- as I did during their talks -- what they think makes new residents stick, they say "community" and they perceive Bellisseria is where the community is. They don't speak of the community as all of SL including private islands and old Mainland. They think of Bellisseria as *the community*. It's where they work and concentrate their efforts; it's where they get the most positive feedback from residents. They rarely hear from private island owners once they buy their islands -- they re-set themselves. They hear from Mainland owners only when they ask a sim to be reset or perhaps ask for abandoned land to be sold.

The lion's share of trouble tickets are on this dwindling Mainland however -- griefing and encroachment.

This is why I sent Abner Mole a "Visit the Mainland" sign. I don't expect him to visit -- obviously he's very busy with Bellisseria. I personally don't care about roads that have problems as I ride my MegaPuss and not that often -- I think the vehicle community is very small and the pods are always empty. When the Lindens turn their eye to beautifying the old Mainland, some of it was welcome, like roads and signs in Corsica, and some of it made no sense, like a Zindra-style sculpty-blurred looking bridge plunked down in Palomarian where previously a fine old prim stone bridge served perfectly well and looked 10 times better. If the answer to the question of "What is the Lindens' policy for old Mainland" is benign neglect, I think that's the best we can hope for. 

We have now heard definitively from Patch, despite statements of the past, that old Linden Homes are going to be removed, and the residents in them asked to move. This makes total sense as there are empty sims now and even if there is one person, that can't justify putting the sim up just for them -- these are "always on" sims. As Grumpity pointed out, LL can't move to a "sim on demand" format because of breedables, for one things, which would die or become sick from hunger if sims were taken down.

But the decision to remove Lindens homes will be the first time in LL history that they destroyed their own content (after those early years of Linden World when they blew up stuff constantly), and what's more, sent resident content back to inventory for a reasons other than non-payment or TOS violation. So it's troubling in that respect because once the Lindens can re-arrange the game pieces on the game board at will, nothing can stop them really from deciding the Mainland should be deleted entirely, or mostly. There is no firewall against that decision of course anyway, as the Lindens can do what they want, but it will be a significant watershed when they move paying customers and return their content.

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

OK, that's for sure, and few people are doing to sit and count every region, it's too hard. So you could just tell us how many regions hold old Linden Homes and how many Bellisseria. I think reading Tyche for 10 years gives you an answer of some 1500+ regions as the largest possible number (the difference between Mainland in 2010 and Mainland today, which includes Bellisseria in her surveys as the sims are not marked differently). But it's likely less, since you have to factor in abandoned land purchased since that time as well.

I can't "just tell you" how many regions though. I'd have to sit down and count every region the same way you would. What am saying is even if you did know how many regions are in each estate if your goal is to guesstimate how many new homes there are compared to how many old homes there are that method isn't going to give you anything close to a reliable number. They are simply too different from each other. 

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Abnor Mole said:

I can't "just tell you" how many regions though. I'd have to sit down and count every region the same way you would. What am saying is even if you did know how many regions are in each estate if your goal is to guesstimate how many new homes there are compared to how many old homes there are that method isn't going to give you anything close to a reliable number. They are simply too different from each other. 

Can you count them by taking the overall grid coordinates and figuring out how many regions fit within those coordinates? And taking only the coordinates of the given new versus old areas. 

I thought you had a way to keep track other than physical counting, obviously there's no reason to add to your work.

Of course you could start *now* keeping a spread sheet when you make the "new continent" of the mystical ones? That would be something. I guess this would require having Moles physically input on a Google docs every time they finish a sim?

Abner, are you scared? I mean, these sims could be multiplying on you over night, and you might not know...What's to stop some rogue Mole from making a kind of "Dark Web"?  I mean, who's counting? A sim here, a sim there, pretty soon you're...

You could ask AWS how many servers were added from X date.

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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33 minutes ago, Abnor Mole said:

I can't "just tell you" how many regions though. I'd have to sit down and count every region the same way you would. What am saying is even if you did know how many regions are in each estate if your goal is to guesstimate how many new homes there are compared to how many old homes there are that method isn't going to give you anything close to a reliable number. They are simply too different from each other. 

Could you not ask an engineer or someone that has access to database? The same one that keeps a record of who owns which parcel… hand counting? Really?

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2 minutes ago, yestothis said:

Could you not ask an engineer or someone that has access to database? The same one that keeps a record of who owns which parcel… hand counting? Really?

Well, one thing they're saying is there is no way to distinguish "old" from "new" by the actual region itself, it has no distinguishing markings on the server itself, although physically the content will be more on the old servers as the parcels are smaller and there were less prims.

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I think you're all missing the point. The number wouldn't really mean anything because of all the assumptions you have to make, so any effort to do so by that method is essentially wasted effort.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, BJoyful said:

This thread has some early announcements of numbers of homes and Regions but then the announcements including numbers trailed off, I assume with a very good reason.  We probably don't need to know the facts and figures which inevitably lead to Residents obsessing and speculating about how well they are (or are not) doing what we expect or want because...  we pay LL to look after those Math-y things for us ♥

@Matthieu Quander  (and my abacus broke... so I put all the counters in an odd-shaped jar right here somewhere... dammit) 

No, BJoyful. I do not pay Lindens to look after mathy things. That is, sure, they run servers which I can't run because I don't have a degree in computer engineering, although I have earned a degree in physics from life experience operating sims all these years : ) I also didn't attract millions of dollars of venture capital, I only spent thousands of dollars on tier over the years -- difference! That expenditure is a sunk cost, not an investment.

So I pay them for *that*, but you, as head of a MAINLAND community need to hear what this is about, which you seem resistant to, and want to "leave it in their hands" -- which you should never do. Never allow someone else to make you an option while you are making them a priority.

There is only one reason to find out this number: to see if the Lindens are going to shift ALL of their attention to Bellisseria (currently it has MOST but not ALL) and whether ultimately they will delete the Mainland as it is.

That means Campbell Coast, too. Then, the best you could hope for is to be co-opted as an idea, as the Lindens make an Artists' Colony Bellisseria and invite you to come in and co-manage it with them. Or they may simply make an Artists' Colony WITHOUT you, because it's their game, in the end. So try to understand what this is about.

There are plenty of island land barons who would be happy if the Mainland were deleted -- Bellisseria isn't competition to them, but Mainland is because it's much cheaper.

I personally don't view Bellisseria as a competition to my little rentals because I see customers have both Bellisseria and my rentals -- or they move back and forth. The competition to me is other mainland rentals agencies, not the Lindens because it's a niche of people who want more freedom, who have a low budget, and don't want a lot of things managed for them but do want some rules.

But for some Mainland rentals agencies, it *is* a competition. I know at least several house creators who were put out of business not due to mesh but due to Linden Homes.

I know of some Mainland rentals agencies with themes that have been wiped out totally, evidently due to Bellisseria.

I estimate that at least half of all Mainland resident owned parcels are now in Bellisseria (because I include Bellisseria in the Mainland -- Lindens do not). Probably more. Bellisseria is growing; Mainland is not. The Lindens auction off recycled abandoned land; they do not make new sims as they used to.

They are talking about removing or replacing old Linden Homes with new Bellisseria homes.

Once that is done, I would like to know what stops them from driving all Mainland owners into either Bellisseria homes or private islands. What are the values of the Mainland? If people site something like Campbell Coast or even my rentals or cite various great historic builds like Ivory Tower of Prims, there is nothing to stop this being moved to a more controlled setting.

That's all there is to it. That's what it's about. At some point, the number of users of their outdated product becomes so small and yet outsized in proportion to trouble tickets, that the temptation will be great to delete it. That's why you need to care about this and stop telling people like me to "leave it to the Lindens". I have never done that in my life, which is why, among other things, I have a resident-managed Linden infohub (replacing the old telehubs); a grandfathered sim (which originally were going to be given only to their insiders' list) and an ad farm policy (which took four years to get) -- all things that required extensive lobbying of the Lindens.

The pod lovers and vehicle and rail communities can shift to Bellisseria, they don't need Mainland as such.

So I guess it's up to that dwindling number of Mainland owners to make the case to the Lindens to keep their benign neglect policy and not move to a more aggressive policy of removal. To advocate any policy, you need to know *how many*.

 

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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Perhaps I am too trusting, but I have no reason not to trust.  I cannot enjoy life NOT trusting people.  I have had periods of time during my life when I felt I couldn't trust anyone except myself and not always even myself because... well, gravity kind of sneaks up on me at times.  Those were the moments I was not enjoying life and the memories I will not mind losing!  This is a pleasure, this Second Life and I LOVE it!!  I'm old enough to embrace the number of lines a gesture uses are irrelevant when compared to feeling the genuine joy of the person gesturbating like they own the chatbox... GO, GO, GO FOR IT because it is beautiful and that joy is fuel for my tired old brain ♥

I refuse to witter and waste time worrying if the people I pay to do a job are doing it with quantum efficiency.  I don't know if my electric meter is calibrated for maximum accuracy either.  I will whinge if my bill doubles or my lights go out.  I will spend any amount of money required on more efficient appliances, or alterative energy because that may buy time for us to get along a little better with nature before it's pushed into pushing back and we're all drinking recycled black water and turning into ppl soup.  When SL is not fun or is too hard for me I have plenty of other ways to enjoy my time and I completely trust that Second Life will be here for me when I can enjoy my time here.  This place belongs to us, as the Residents and Creators in the same way that the Earth belongs to all of us.  I can buy a chunk of Earth same as a chunk of Mainland in Second Life and neither one is really mine, I didn't make it and it only has value when it is connected to the rest of the Earth. Nature can infect the beautiful Elm tree that has stood on the boulevard in front of my house for 77 years with a horrible disease that marks it for death in a few years and I'm as helpless to do anything to save it as I am in Second Life if LL decides that purple Lemon Trees that poof glitter particles when a script inside them detects movement would be an improvement along the Circuit La Corse from Durdane to Majipoor.  I can object and rant that the least they could have done was made them apple trees and if they don't agree or don't care I still trust that they will have made the best decision for Second Life because I'm paying for a tiny percentage of their product and service.  They ask me every time we have an interaction for my opinion and feedback and offer another opportunity to plead my case.  Another few Lindens might find out how I feel they are performing and possibly that will affect their future performance.  That is what I'm paying for or how I earn an income.  I'm not compelled or obligated by anyone but myself to continue or to go do something else.  So far, we have a perfect relationship.  I have no reason to suspect they are not going to support the status quo ad infinitum.  I am as respectful of SL as SL is of me.  I am completely invested in a long term relationship.  I like long sails along beaches with my partner and plenty of peace, love and understanding. ♥´¯`·­» ι ℓøøøνє  тнίѕ ρℓαςε! «­·´¯`♥

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14 hours ago, yestothis said:

Could you not ask an engineer or someone that has access to database? The same one that keeps a record of who owns which parcel… hand counting? Really?

If you offer to pay someone to count them, perhaps someone will… or maybe it’s not really that important in the bigger picture?  Or just present the suggestion for change or preservation you have in mind and leave it to LL to ask for more information about how your idea could be implemented if they believe it is a good thing for the future of SL.  LL has already proven they DO listen.  When their plan to reduce Basic Membership from/to 45 Groups was met with protest, they announced they reconsidered because that feature was very important to a large amount of users and went to work on another way and are still working on it… why is Group chat running sporadically?  Perhaps because they are still working on a way to keep Basic membership’s number of Groups… or perhaps it has nothing to do with that at all but I know they are working on it as they complain about it themselves.  We don’t know why many things do or don’t happen until we ask why or devote ourselves to finding out. Be kind and respectful and your life will be filled with kindness and respect 🏠🗺      🥳. Happy Canada Day from Canada to the rest of the world! 🍁🇨🇦🍁

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15 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

No, BJoyful. I do not pay Lindens to look after mathy things. That is, sure, they run servers which I can't run because I don't have a degree in computer engineering, although I have earned a degree in physics from life experience operating sims all these years : ) I also didn't attract millions of dollars of venture capital, I only spent thousands of dollars on tier over the years -- difference! That expenditure is a sunk cost, not an investment.

So I pay them for *that*, but you, as head of a MAINLAND community need to hear what this is about, which you seem resistant to, and want to "leave it in their hands" -- which you should never do. Never allow someone else to make you an option while you are making them a priority.

There is only one reason to find out this number: to see if the Lindens are going to shift ALL of their attention to Bellisseria (currently it has MOST but not ALL) and whether ultimately they will delete the Mainland as it is.

That means Campbell Coast, too. Then, the best you could hope for is to be co-opted as an idea, as the Lindens make an Artists' Colony Bellisseria and invite you to come in and co-manage it with them. Or they may simply make an Artists' Colony WITHOUT you, because it's their game, in the end. So try to understand what this is about.

There are plenty of island land barons who would be happy if the Mainland were deleted -- Bellisseria isn't competition to them, but Mainland is because it's much cheaper.

I personally don't view Bellisseria as a competition to my little rentals because I see customers have both Bellisseria and my rentals -- or they move back and forth. The competition to me is other mainland rentals agencies, not the Lindens because it's a niche of people who want more freedom, who have a low budget, and don't want a lot of things managed for them but do want some rules.

But for some Mainland rentals agencies, it *is* a competition. I know at least several house creators who were put out of business not due to mesh but due to Linden Homes.

I know of some Mainland rentals agencies with themes that have been wiped out totally, evidently due to Bellisseria.

I estimate that at least half of all Mainland resident owned parcels are now in Bellisseria (because I include Bellisseria in the Mainland -- Lindens do not). Probably more. Bellisseria is growing; Mainland is not. The Lindens auction off recycled abandoned land; they do not make new sims as they used to.

They are talking about removing or replacing old Linden Homes with new Bellisseria homes.

Once that is done, I would like to know what stops them from driving all Mainland owners into either Bellisseria homes or private islands. What are the values of the Mainland? If people site something like Campbell Coast or even my rentals or cite various great historic builds like Ivory Tower of Prims, there is nothing to stop this being moved to a more controlled setting.

That's all there is to it. That's what it's about. At some point, the number of users of their outdated product becomes so small and yet outsized in proportion to trouble tickets, that the temptation will be great to delete it. That's why you need to care about this and stop telling people like me to "leave it to the Lindens". I have never done that in my life, which is why, among other things, I have a resident-managed Linden infohub (replacing the old telehubs); a grandfathered sim (which originally were going to be given only to their insiders' list) and an ad farm policy (which took four years to get) -- all things that required extensive lobbying of the Lindens.

The pod lovers and vehicle and rail communities can shift to Bellisseria, they don't need Mainland as such.

So I guess it's up to that dwindling number of Mainland owners to make the case to the Lindens to keep their benign neglect policy and not move to a more aggressive policy of removal. To advocate any policy, you need to know *how many*.

 

Bellisseria is an entry level or retirement form of free housing for Premium Members.  It is not a replacement of Mainland.  This has never changed.  Do you want them to stop making Bellisseria and fix up some Mainland?  Just ask.  Ask in Live chat and report their response then gather your supporters or sigh and Carry On enjoying what you do enjoy 🌼 That is what you can do because no one can turn back time or displace 4,500 Regions of land without some serious consequences… far too many consequences for me or even HAL9000 to even contemplate. 🌼 😉

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In our operation, 3.75 Regions of tier requires 135 rental units in Campbell Coast at $L1/LI/week to pay the cost of tier.  Any extra will be put toward the acquisition of more Abandoned Land which will be designed accordingly.  It is designed based on all our favourite things about Bellisseria and includes development surrounding pre-existing homeowners who use banlines and security orbs and many who also choose (or have since chosen) to blend in with the landscaping we chose.  It is up to each Resident to decide if they want to live there or not, if they want to blend in or not, sell or buy or trade lots, it is up to them to get along and up to us to cope with their bad decisions and good decisions, just like RL. I don’t depend on LL to help me make it profitable or successful but I certainly appreciate their consideration of our needs and desires when we file Support Tickets.  Sometimes our requests are granted and sometimes they are denied… just like RL.  It is up to Campbell Coast to succeed or fail based on the the community which forms there or doesn’t.  If we start making a lot of rules we must start enforcing those rules and that means people will not use common sense or take responsibility for their own behaviour and that will also be up to everyone in Campbell Coast to decide because I have no time to waste on things which aren’t important to me.  Campbell Coast will constantly evolve and change and people will like it or not… too many not liking means it needs to evolve, or get chalked up to a hard lesson learned and returned to Governor Linden’s care as Abandoned Land.

I hope a thousand competitors will do a better job than me because WOW, Mainland will be a thousand times more vital and valuable ♥️

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40 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

Bellisseria is an entry level or retirement form of free housing for Premium Members.  It is not a replacement of Mainland.  

This is just your own opinion. I, and a lot more ppl I know, doesn´t agree with this. Im neither an newbie or retired either 🌷 And I will never, ever, go back to living on mainland to have a huge black or pink box as neighbour. But each to their own 💗 Bellisseria FTW! ☺️

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