Sim sizes need to change!!!!

[Adam Huntsman]

A homestead and full sim need to change to the size of the ark evolved map with a height of 4000. Paying 125 a month or 350 a month is a lot of money for a small private island. I think second life needs a major update to keep up with the times. I think second life can be updated. Instead of a premier house maybe second life should consider the old style homestead and full sims being the new premier home. While make a new type of full sim the size of ark evolved. Food for thought. That would get millions of people to come on second life.

[WereBeast Alpha]

I think if you have a premium membership a full sim would be free at least one of them that come with the membership. On an old virtual world platform I used if we got the VIP we were able to have 10 rooms to use for the time of the membership without buying a chatroom slot. it was more of a way to have different rooms. I would benefit from a full sim with 20k prim to handle at least it would give me more room to work with when I want to build or set something up for my friends to use and myself. Renting full sims isn't cheap either.

[Rowan Amore]

Try Open sim

[Lucia Nightfire]

2 hours ago, Adam Huntsman said:

That would get millions of people to come on second life.

The only way millions would flock to SL is if they were offering full regions at $19.95 a month.

[Rowan Amore]

16 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

The only way millions would flock to SL is if they were offering full regions at $19.95 a month.

And there would be more people complaining about no one being around to talk to.

@Adam Huntsman

When I can afford to, I rent a homestead.  That in turn puts money in the landlords hands who then pays LL for that homestead.  If everyone were given a region as premium, that would definitely cut into LL's bottom line.  They would then need to charge even more for regions or up premium costs or fees or all of the above.  

LL is in business to make money not to give away a viable money making product.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Rowan Amore

[Lucia Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

And there would be more people complaining about no one being around to talk to.

When I can afford to, I rent a homestead.  That in turn puts money in the landlords hands who then pays LL for that homestead.  If everyone were given a region as premium, that would definitely cut into LL's bottom line.  They would then need to charge even more for regions or up premium costs or fees or all of the above.  

LL is in business to make money not to give away a viable money making product.

I wasn't serious. The "$19.95" should have been a hint, heh.

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, Lucia Nightfire said:

I wasn't serious. The "$19.95" should have been a hint, heh.

I know.  Only the first sentence was actually directed to you.  I'd better fix that.  Oops

 

 

[bigmoe Whitfield]

Okay so let's clarify somethings for you

 

Oz Linden stated publically in Lab gab their pricing went up to host in AWS, it's now more expensive for them, not cheaper, as it was with their physical data center. so it will not be getting cheaper for us the consumer.

 

LL's ceo Ebbe stated on twitter they looked into 1024x1024 sims and it's not possible at this time and is not on the table at this time.  

Edited June 28, 2021 by bigmoe Whitfield

[Alwin Alcott]

On 6/27/2021 at 2:31 AM, Adam Huntsman said:

 Paying 125 a month or 350 a month is a lot of money for a small private island

if it would be required to take a region i could imagine it's a lot of money for people...but guess what?... you can scale your land use totally to the allowance of your wallet .. from 512 sqm and up to yes the full regions ... your world, your wallet.. your imagination.

[Cecilia Dallas]

My $0.02 but the only real change I'd like to see is homesteads for anyone who wants to buy one. I'd happily buy a 5K homestead region and pay the $109 per month (from Linden, not paying extra $ to a middle-man) but with the requirement to own a full sim first, this is never gonna happen.

And no one, I have found, is happy to rent you a homestead AT COST. I understand capitalism and the need to make a few bucks, but when I do the Linden rental price conversion on any rentable homesteads I see, it's not $109 you're paying. 

Surely there are some altruistic homestead owners out there?

Edited June 28, 2021 by Sapphire Dakota

[Rowan Amore]

6 minutes ago, Sapphire Dakota said:

My $0.02 but the only real change I'd like to see is homesteads for anyone who wants to buy one. I'd happily buy a 5K homestead region and pay the $109 per month (from Linden, not paying extra $ to a middle-man) but with the requirement to own a full sim first, this is never gonna happen.

And no one, I have found, is happy to rent you a homestead AT COST. I understand capitalism and the need to make a few bucks, but when I do the Linden rental price conversion on any rentable homesteads I see, it's not $109 you're paying. 

Surely there are some altruistic homestead owners out there?

The homestead I rented was only $112/mth so it wasn't that far out of line.  I do like the idea of being able to own one, though, without having to own an entire full region.  

[Cecilia Dallas]

$112 is very reasonable, that's something manageable.

I'd also prefer paying US$ not Lindens, to make it a constant amount.

[Chroma Starlight]

On 6/26/2021 at 5:31 PM, Adam Huntsman said:

A homestead and full sim need to change to the size of the ark evolved map with a height of 4000. 

Wouldn't it just be easier to shrink to be smaller? Then the world will be so big!

Edited June 28, 2021 by Chroma Starlight

[Lucia Nightfire]

4 hours ago, Sapphire Dakota said:

My $0.02 but the only real change I'd like to see is homesteads for anyone who wants to buy one. I'd happily buy a 5K homestead region and pay the $109 per month (from Linden, not paying extra $ to a middle-man) but with the requirement to own a full sim first, this is never gonna happen.

And no one, I have found, is happy to rent you a homestead AT COST. I understand capitalism and the need to make a few bucks, but when I do the Linden rental price conversion on any rentable homesteads I see, it's not $109 you're paying. 

Surely there are some altruistic homestead owners out there?

If LL allowed Homestead purchasing w/o Private Island ownership and the setup fee was $199.00 and the monthly maintenance fee was $149.00, would you partake?

The only way LL can possibly offer it would be through a pricing schema that does not alienate the land barons.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Lucia Nightfire

[Cecilia Dallas]

6 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

If LL allowed Homestead purchasing w/o Private Island ownership and the setup fee was $199.00 and the monthly maintenance fee was $149.00, would you partake?

The only way LL can possibly offer it would be through a pricing schema that does not alienate the land barrons.

Probably not since I think a homestead with 5000 prims ... 1/4 of a standard full sim's 20K ... should also only be 1/4 of the full sim price of $229, so around $57.25.

I'd happily pay $99 but not $149, unless the prim count on a homestead goes to 10K or more. So, to your question: $199 set up ($50 increase) sure, $99 for 5K prims, $149 for 10K. Maybe.

Basically, the price ratio of land space to prims is weird to me. What's the server cost based on, size or prims allowed? Either way, the math is odd.

An example? I'm getting 1406 prims on my current rented parcel for the Linden equivalent of $4/week aka $17.33/month. By that math, 5K prims should cost me $61.63 per month, even under what I'd pay at $99.

PS. I think my best solution is to find a full sim partner and split/pay $115 for 1/2 a 20K sim every month.

PPS. And the land barons can go rot. They are part of the problem.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Sapphire Dakota

[Paul Hexem]

On 6/28/2021 at 2:11 AM, bigmoe Whitfield said:

Oz Linden stated publically in Lab gab their pricing went up to host in AWS, it's now more expensive for them, not cheaper, as it was with their physical data center. so it will not be getting cheaper for us the consumer.

I have a lot of respect for Oz and I would never call Oz a liar, but Oz is a liar.

Or, I should say, simply saying "AWS is more expensive than before" does not tell the whole story.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

11 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

I have a lot of respect for Oz and I would never call Oz a liar, but Oz is a liar.

Or, I should say, simply saying "AWS is more expensive than before" does not tell the whole story.

aws is more expensive, with what LL is doing behind the scenes to roll more aws presences in the future that requires more money and sim sizes are locked to the physical parameters, Ebbe even said they looked at it, but it was not feasible.

[Paul Hexem]

5 hours ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

aws is more expensive

I've said it before and I'll say it again; No business, especially not LL, says "This is just going to cost us money for no real benefit. We should do it."

So when they say simply "AWS is more expensive", they're lying at worst and leaving information out at best.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

Just now, Paul Hexem said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again; No business, especially not LL, says "This is just going to cost us money for no real benefit. We should do it."

So when they say simply "AWS is more expensive", they're lying at worst and leaving information out at best.

it is more expensive than their colo was costing them.  that much is known, as aws is not cheap at the scale LL is running it.

[Coffee Pancake]

LL never ever give us the full picture.

1024 regions are unfeasible for code/legacy reasons is only half the picture - the other, unsaid, half is what LL fear we (and mainly land barons) will do with such regions.

Making 1024 regions just needs developer time. Residential region owners consolidating 4 regular regions into one mega region is something else entirely.

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Coffee Pancake

[Paul Hexem]

8 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

LL never ever give us the full picture.

Very much this.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

5 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

Very much this.

that could be cool too,  and paul,  I'm not going to get into an arguement with you over things,  I just doing the relaying each time this is brought up. 

[Paul Hexem]

5 minutes ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

that could be cool too,  and paul,  I'm not going to get into an arguement with you over things,  I just doing the relaying each time this is brought up. 

Ah yes, the old "I'm not arguing" after I've been arguing.

Although to be fair, I'm not arguing with you, either. I'm throwing shade at any Linden that expects us to believe LL wastes money for no reason.

[Flea Yatsenko]

On 6/28/2021 at 1:26 PM, Sapphire Dakota said:

Basically, the price ratio of land space to prims is weird to me. What's the server cost based on, size or prims allowed? Either way, the math is odd.

An example? I'm getting 1406 prims on my current rented parcel for the Linden equivalent of $4/week aka $17.33/month. By that math, 5K prims should cost me $61.63 per month, even under what I'd pay at $99.

There is a deep rooted thing in second life servers that restricts it to 256x256m. You may notice it's a power of two in each dimension, for a reason. One that probably doesn't need to exist anymore but a lot of stuff would make the assumption that the dimensions are under 256m. I understand the homestead thing, some sim builds are a lot more dense than others. For a store that sells large objects, a homestead with a rezzer is a great set up. I would love to see different sized sims, if only for the fact that you could have a smaller parcel to yourself on a whole sim. I just need half of a homestead, but I still have to share the other half with another renter. Which comes with all that exciting stuff, like him changing experience settings for the whole sim on accident and all that.

As for AWS being more expensive per month, it's not accounting for the fact that LL's hardware was getting old in their data center. By the time you start upgrading the hardware, price gets out of control very quickly. Colo is also kind of restricting for growth, what happens when you outgrow your datacenter? Now LL is responsible for managing their servers and providing enough to meet demand. With AWS they can just order more servers and Amazon does it all. I am not a fan of AWS but SL does not scale very well, with sims needing their own dedicated resources no matter how much they're being used. IIRC there was a problem with there not being enough land available to buy because they didn't have the servers. From a business perspective, if you can't meet demand you are just losing money. I mean, think of it this way, it's $229 for a private region, you run out of capacity and turn away 100 people because you don't have the resources to provide them with sims. Not only is that the $2,290 you lose in the first month, but they are recurring customers. You are losing tens of thousands of dollars a year because you can't meet demand. It makes sense to spend more on servers if you can meet demand.

The older hardware they were running on their servers also becomes a liability. If you have components dying in your servers, not only do you have mad customers who have their sims they are spending money on unavailable, but you have to spend the money to upgrade them. You also have to pay someone to take care of that stuff.

While AWS is more expensive, I think they made the move from a growth perspective.

[Extrude Ragu]

The way I see it is like this

The number of meters in each dimension of a sim is simply a floating point number. Increasing the size of the region from 512m to 1024m to 2048 to 4096m makes no difference to resource usage on its own.

Therefor for example, a sea for sailing in could be 8192 * 8192 meters and have the same resources allocated to it as a 256 by 256 if all its hosting is some boats and planes passing through that would also fit in a 256 by 256 prim budget. That would give people huge sailing/flying space at low cost.

Private homesteads where people just have a house, there's no reason as I see it that we couldn't give people a huge sea around their home you'd just have to figure out some workaround for the world map and related legacy issues. Now people can rez some ski's and go skiing aroudn their private homestead with loads of space or maybe have some small hide away den in some little island they've terraformed in the distance.

You could have a whole new class of 'mainland' which are homestead prim capacity on these 'giant' sized sims. We'd sail around between homes on private islands.

If you want to increase the prim/script capacity per sim too, that's a different matter all together.