Kinda bummed out about SLB

[Innula Zenovka]

I normally keep sound off anyway unless I particularly want to hear what's going on, but the other day when I was exploring a wooded area of Bellisseria, enjoying the Moles' soundscaping, I was rather surprised to hear someone moaning away enthusiastically, if rather over-theatrically, in the background.  However, it was simple enough in my viewer to switch media off until I'd left the region (and it didn't take more than a few seconds to stop, if that).

I agree, though, it would be great to be able to separate the visual media from the sound, since the visual side so useful.    I'd love to be able to use shared media as an alternative to XyzzyText and its descendants when I want to write text on a surface, for example, but I'm always nervous that some people are going to struggle to make their viewer show it.

ETA:  I've just realised, it looks as if you can easily turn of the sound while keeping on shared media, at least in the RC viewer I'm using at the moment (and liking a lot), from the little sound drop-down.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Innula Zenovka

[Prokofy Neva]

On 6/20/2021 at 10:31 PM, Coffee Pancake said:

The shopping mall was a huge mistake. It's never ending. Exhausting. Full of regular shops with regular things that can be bought elsewhere without the stress. Bogged down under the weight of thousands of caspervend scripts.

They should have gone with the event model - Limited space & Li (display must be X li and fit in a xyz sized box), a theme and expectation that there would be at least one event exclusive item for sale. Applications should have been opened earlier and everyone who was able to apply and get a booth constructed by a cut off date should have been accepted. 

I think it has gotten too big and sprawling, and they would lose nothing by actually making it smaller, having less prims and smaller spaces and insisting on a themed item as well as a gift. I'm glad it was less laggy this year, but I see less shoppers.

I'm glad they insist on gifts, because I go to too many events where some prim-a-donnas believe they are too special to put out a gift even when so many others do.

However, I would say to all merchants, if you are contemplating the following as your gift, stop -- just stop. Recolour an old thing, even a prim thing, anything but this:

o pillows (especially without even any sit anims!)

o candles

o balloons (it's a birthday but...just no.

o photo frames

o a towel or blanket that says SL18 on it, not everyone wants that

o anything that says "Surf's Up" or "You are the Cream in My Coffee" or "Wine O'Clock" or any other stupid thing like that.

You can at the very least put out your 30L or 60L sale items, my God, please, no more of this junk as gifts, it is depressing. And yes, we are entitled to gifts after buying from you all year long, please.

Some people really hate the SL birthday logo or any birthday thing as the theme, and I agree, I hate print on items. I even get a little tired of my kitties that have that logo but at least not for a good long while lol.

This absolutely scathing unboxing video of two hours is RUTHLESS about the gifts, and I think too harsh on most of them but generally she's right.

A theme doesn't have to mean the birthday logo or birthday as a theme. The theme of "Hidden Worlds" for the birthday and the new homes, like past themes of "Travel" or whatever would do just as well and is actually preferable. So either put out an old thing or make a new thing and if you are tired and burned out, don't enter, leave it to someone else.

 

 

 

[Prokofy Neva]

2 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I normally keep sound off anyway unless I particularly want to hear what's going on, but the other day when I was exploring a wooded area of Bellisseria, enjoying the Moles' soundscaping, I was rather surprised to hear someone moaning away enthusiastically, if rather over-theatrically, in the background.  However, it was simple enough in my viewer to switch media off until I'd left the region (and it didn't take more than a few seconds to stop, if that).

I agree, though, it would be great to be able to separate the visual media from the sound, since the visual side so useful.    I'd love to be able to use shared media as an alternative to XyzzyText and its descendants when I want to write text on a surface, for example, but I'm always nervous that some people are going to struggle to make their viewer show it.

ETA:  I've just realised, it looks as if you can easily turn of the sound while keeping on shared media, at least in the RC viewer I'm using at the moment (and liking a lot), from the little sound drop-down.

I was so excited when a certain creator issued a TV recently, a very nice one with various features, in nice furniture, that made the claim that you would not hear it outside the parcel.

Because that's a huge annoyance about media on a prim or any kind of TV (you're evidently also talking about Voice where someone hasn't checked "keep sound on parcel".

But it turned out you could hear this TV outside the parcel and I couldn't get it to work anyway except as media on a prim. Since I have 17 years of deeding and watching TVs, I don't think I did any thing incorrectly but whatever, it didn't work as advertised and frankly no TV does this. Media on a prim sounds outside parcels, something I wish those so fascinated with "Infinitively Distant Stars" and "Blue Moons" would fasten on as an issue to fix, so that it responds to the order "keep sound on this parcel". I don't use TV as a result. While someone could come and mute it, it means having them be annoyed, look for it, and block it -- and then each new visitor has to block it. It's not a good solution.

[Prokofy Neva]

[wrong thread]

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Prokofy Neva

[Qie Niangao]

On 6/21/2021 at 12:40 AM, Coffee Pancake said:

On 6/21/2021 at 12:36 AM, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

Are sl birthdays shopping events now? When i started in sl it was like a burning man thing, people got plots and made stuff. 

That's still a thing .. Built a huge rocket ship for Catznip this year. Although I will say the foot traffic is noticeably lower than previous years.

The shopping extravaganza lost me almost immediately: way too many stores displaying way too many items, like a nightmare of one dollar store after another, all in final clearance. If I managed a brand, I'd either pull out immediately or have the starkest, simplest, single-item storefront as distinct as possible from anything else on those sixteen sims, just to preserve the brand.

I have been trying to get through the SL18B resident exhibit regions. And that's pretty tough going too.

It's always been difficult to process more than one region in a session, just because each parcel needs some commitment of attention to give a fair shot at expressing whatever was intended, and they're all so different it's like learning a new language for each exhibit.

This year, though, it's much worse, and for me a big part of the problem seems to be the "maze" created by so many double parcels (and larger) scattered among the regular 1024s. In the past there were a few, usually around the edges, and in recent years its been common to plop 4096s in the middle of those regions (which were disorienting enough), but this year I found it impossible to navigate without a slice of world Map window on the corner of my screen. And trust me, I'm not especially "spatially challenged." The experience reminds me of the maze layout of big department stores, intended to obscure paths out of the store—except I doubt this is intentional, and it's aggravating enough that it's an effort to force myself to go back and make my way through another region-full of it.

There's a lot more one might suggest to make exhibits more "legible" but unless the layout is more conducive to navigating among them, most exhibits won't be seen anyway.

[RitaCallisto]

The Hop N Shop for me was a bit of a disappointment. Waaaaay too many stores selling old items i'd seen 3 trillion times already, and what was new wasn't of interest to me at all. I think I bought nothing at all from any of those 16 regions. Kept maybe 2 gifts lmao.

The exhibition regions are usually a casual stroll, and pleasant. However, I often feel like i'm in a time-warp to SL 10 years ago when I go to many areas people have set up so i'm sad to say I pass by more of them than I stop to look. Not saying any of them are bad(they're really not), they are usually just not my cup of tea. It's also super easy to get lost.

I never have to worry too much about lag(at least in HNS) as generally i'll go to a region, turn all avatars off, and just cam.

[MoiraKathleen]

I've only been to a few of the stores at the Hop N Shop event, mostly because this month has been a busy month for me with several different SL and RL events to attend to, and because I'm not as big of a shopper as I used to be. 

The actual SLB regions though, I have been enjoying visiting.  I always look forward to the resident parcels because there is so much breadth of ideas and builds included, and I almost always discover information about some place that I hadn't heard of before in SL.  I think I've made it a little over half-way through the resident parcels.  I hope to see a few more later this evening, and then finish up the rest mid-week, in-between some little RL travels I doing.  

[Noelle Delaunay]

I actually like the idea to bring so many shops together so that people may get to know ones outside of their bubbles.

That said my list of favourite stores hasn't increased due to this event and I haven't bought anything either.

I also found it stressful wanting to get done with looking at all of the shops on the first day before the big lag would come.

I oftentimes lost orientation and needed to doublecheck I wasn't walking into the wrong direction lol

 

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, Noelle Delaunay said:

I oftentimes lost orientation and needed to doublecheck I wasn't walking into the wrong direction lol

 

Teleport to the center of each sim (sometimes you land in the fountain  but he it's hot out there for most of us).  

Pick one of the corner stores. REMEMBER which store it was.  

Go in one direction (I go to the right). 

When you get to the end of that sim there is a bigger divider wall (also two stores in each direction from the corner stores)

Move your camera (or you if you aren't good at camming) across the promenade to the last store before the wall divider. 
Keep going in the same direction.  

 

When you get back to the first store that you REMEMBERED or WROTE DOWN  (LOL) move to the next sim.

 

I got through  in five hours and never got lost this way.  So maybe try that method next time.  I was also keeping track of any gifts that I picked up and what sim they were in. So a bonus there. 

 

I didn't buy anything either.  There were some nice gifts though and at least SOME of the creators did OK sales-wise (just folks I talked to)> 

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

On 6/23/2021 at 1:02 PM, Innula Zenovka said:

In that case, Firestorm might consider making it easier for new users  (and, it would seem, more experienced ones) to use shared media, to my mind.

It's forever since I've bothered to do a clean install of Firestorm (or use it for anything much, other than checking things I make work with it) but doesn't it default with shared media turned off and keeps on giving you big scary menus that few new users will bother to read whenever shared media tries to play,  dating back from when we needed protection from Red Zone?

I wish Firestorm would update their defaults on shared media -- as I said, it's on by default in the Official Viewer, and I've been wandering round the grid with it turned on for the last few years at least without many surprises.       Shared media really isn't that scary any more. 

No, please. Not on FS anyway. I can't say I will ever feel safe with it on after RZ.

[Innula Zenovka]

9 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

No, please. Not on FS anyway. I can't say I will ever feel safe with it on after RZ.

I understand your feelings very well, and if you want to turn off shared media in the official viewer, there's nothing to stop you.    

All I'm saying is that I wish Firestorm wouldn't turn off shared media by default, or confront new users with those big scary popup menus the first time they encounter shared media, because frequently web on a prim is the best way to display things or make HUDs but scripters have to use kludgy workarounds for the fact many Firestorm users either find it difficult to turn it on for themselves or don't want to, for reasons most of them probably couldn't articulate if asked.

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I understand your feelings very well, and if you want to turn off shared media in the official viewer, there's nothing to stop you.    

All I'm saying is that I wish Firestorm wouldn't turn off shared media by default, or confront new users with those big scary popup menus the first time they encounter shared media, because frequently web on a prim is the best way to display things or make HUDs but scripters have to use kludgy workarounds for the fact many Firestorm users either find it difficult to turn it on for themselves or don't want to, for reasons most of them probably couldn't articulate if asked.

I'm saying I don't want FS to go back to media being on by default. I don't use the official viewer unless I am troubleshooting. It is all located in the same menu that is not hard to find in the upper right corner of the UI where, unless I am mistaken, all the other TPVs have located that menu in the same place.

FS has it off for a very valid reason.  That reason has not changed just because zFire went back to prison.

It is not difficult to turn it on. That's just silly. Just a click or two is all it takes. Whether or not it works for that person depends on a multitude of factors, including the user. VERY RARELY is the issue with the viewer. And if they don't want to turn it on then being off by default is the right thing to do.

If you could give me just a couple of real reasons, not excuses, I could reconsider my POV. Really though, there isn't a good reason to have it on by default (other than laziness?) and lots of good reasons to have it off.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker

[Innula Zenovka]

6 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I'm saying I don't want FS to go back to media being on by default. I don't use the official viewer unless I am troubleshooting. It is all located in the same menu that is not hard to find in the upper right corner of the UI where, unless I am mistaken, all the other TPVs have located that menu in the same place.

FS has it off for a very valid reason.  That reason has not changed just because zFire went back to prison.

It is not difficult to turn it on. That's just silly. Just a click or two is all it takes. Whether or not it works for that person depends on a multitude of factors, including the user. VERY RARELY is the issue with the viewer. And if they don't want to turn it on then being off by default is the right thing to do.

If you could give me just a couple of real reasons, not excuses, I could reconsider my POV. Really though, there isn't a good reason to have it on by default (other than laziness?) and lots of good reasons to have it off.

What do you say is the "very valid reason" that has not changed?     The ToS were, because of RedZone, changed to make very explicit residents' privacy rights and thus ban the whole networked technology on which RedZone depended.      

Regardless of anyone's viewer settings, any attempt to set up a mass alt-detection system like RedZone (or that other one that was around at the time) would now fall at the first hurdle because it would be unsellable in-world.

[Coffee Pancake]

12 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

No, please. Not on FS anyway. I can't say I will ever feel safe with it on after RZ.

A singular event is never good justification for a policy change. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

26 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

What do you say is the "very valid reason" that has not changed?     The ToS were, because of RedZone, changed to make very explicit residents' privacy rights and thus ban the whole networked technology on which RedZone depended.      

Regardless of anyone's viewer settings, any attempt to set up a mass alt-detection system like RedZone (or that other one that was around at the time) would now fall at the first hurdle because it would be unsellable in-world.

 

Yes it's banned but there is nothing to prevent another similar situation. That isn't something that is possible, IMO, and certainly isn't something LL can do. 

How would it not be sellable inworld? What is to prevent one person giving Ls to another in exchange for an object with who knows what in it? It's been a long time  since I  looked but have you looked at the MP lately to see how many "alt detectors" are still listed? Some aren't just "alt detectors" they do other things, too. Not necessarily nefarious like RZ but that is one way to fly under the radar. The point being, determined people find a way. I think you said that yourself not long ago.

I'm sorry. I just don't see any need or reason to have it on by default and lots of reasons to have it off, so , to me, one definitely outweighs the other. 

It is one less thing to load when you first log in. 🤭

So, is this where we agree to disagree or did we find some common ground to agree on? I think we found common ground just haven't reached an agreement. It's ok if we don't. Not like it will kill us and I won't hate you for it. lol

[Innula Zenovka]

25 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

Yes it's banned but there is nothing to prevent another similar situation. That isn't something that is possible, IMO, and certainly isn't something LL can do. 

How would it not be sellable inworld? What is to prevent one person giving Ls to another in exchange for an object with who knows what in it? It's been a long time  since I  looked but have you looked at the MP lately to see how many "alt detectors" are still listed? Some aren't just "alt detectors" they do other things, too. Not necessarily nefarious like RZ but that is one way to fly under the radar. The point being, determined people find a way. I think you said that yourself not long ago.

I'm sorry. I just don't see any need or reason to have it on by default and lots of reasons to have it off, so , to me, one definitely outweighs the other. 

It is one less thing to load when you first log in. 🤭

So, is this where we agree to disagree or did we find some common ground to agree on? I think we found common ground just haven't reached an agreement. It's ok if we don't. Not like it will kill us and I won't hate you for it. lol

How would someone go about setting up a mass alt-detection system that depended on landowners agreeing to place detectors at popular stores and venues, when advertising and selling the system via the Marketplace or in-world would be against ToS, and so would the landowners' placing it on their land?

Security no longer depends on everyone having shared media turned off, if it ever did.     Now any attempt to set up a system similar to zFire's (which is easy enough to script) would be impossible to establish in the first place, because of the need for a network of participants, and would in any case be detected almost immediately by people whose viewers are set to ask before opening urls.

Firestorm's changing their default settings wouldn't change that at all.

But you see it differently, and fair enough.   Firestorm will do what they think is best.   Not worth arguing about.

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Innula Zenovka

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 minute ago, Innula Zenovka said:

How would someone go about setting up a mass alt-detection system that depended on landowners agreeing to place detectors at popular stores and venues, when advertising and selling the system via the Marketplace or in-world would be against ToS, and so would the landowners' placing it on their land?

Security no longer depends on everyone having shared media turned off, if it ever did.     Now any attempt to set up a system similar to zFire's (which is easy enough to script) would be impossible to establish in the first place, because of the need for a network of participants, and would in any case be detected almost immediately by people whose viewers are set to ask before opening urls.

Firestorm's changing their default settings wouldn't change that at all.

But you see it differently, and fair enough.   Firestorm will do what they think is best.

 

How would I know? I'm not a scripter. lol But as I recall most people that bought RZ really didn't have a clue as to what it was really for and once they found out, they got rid of it and removed it from their inventory. I seem to remember all of this being covered in the RZ threads on SLU. 

I'm not saying FS changing the default would change anything other than leave people more vulnerable than if it were off.

I think where we are drifting is I think you are speaking solely of MOAP whereas I am speaking of music streams, voice, movies all of it, not just MOAP. I don't know if that makes a difference for you or not.

FS determined it was best to have it off as default. I don't think that is going to change as long as Jessica is running things. To me, that's a good thing. 

Anyway, you've given me something to think about. I'm just not convinced that it is secure to have it on unless I am actively using the feature and/or know and trust the person providing the whatever media. Gaining my trust is not an easy task.

[Noelle Delaunay]

I fear this is drifting off topic but I'm still curious. My main reason to keep autoplay disabled has always been the fact that you're connecting directly to the parcel media stream. According to my knowledge your IP is exposed in this step. I would also assume that, in case you've got autoplay enabled, there's a certain time frame between your teleport arrival and the stream request. Therefore I imagine it possible that someone with malicious intent, owning a high traffic place, could just match your TP arrival with the request and add you to a list. They can have an algorithm, saying, if there is nobody else on the parcel the hit chance is 100%. In other cases x% and increasing if caught twice. And it would be impossible to do anything against it. Am I wrong?

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Noelle Delaunay said:

Am I wrong?

You're right, but exactly the same applies to the DJ's audio stream in your favourite club, if you enable auto-play of parcel audio (which is probably on by default? not sure, but seems everybody has it enabled).

RedZone was a little different in the way it used a particular feature of parcel media to know 100% every time which avatar is associated with which IP address. So yeah, having media auto-play can be more precise, but the probabilistic association you describe applies to audio as well as media.

3 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

It is not difficult to turn it on. That's just silly. Just a click or two is all it takes. Whether or not it works for that person depends on a multitude of factors, including the user. VERY RARELY is the issue with the viewer. And if they don't want to turn it on then being off by default is the right thing to do.

I feel like this whole conversation is a little confused. The "default" under discussion is the setting for a fresh install of Firestorm without saving and restoring settings—so, basically, the setting for the freshest of newbies. There's no problem at all if somebody who knows what they're doing chooses to disable auto-play; it'll stay that way for them across login sessions becoming their default, and they can toggle it on when they want. That's not the "default" I think is under consideration here. Nonetheless, I can kinda see why Firestorm, of all viewers, would want to be extra careful. It does, however, pose a problem in a "shared experience" sort of way: if new users start out with media disabled, there's so much information that can be presented efficiently over media (especially web interfaces) just when they most need it. It's really a problem that we must instead design around it, using laggy and unreliable texture presentations or the hobbled text of notecards.

[Noelle Delaunay]

25 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

but exactly the same applies to the DJ's audio stream in your favourite club

Yeah I actually did mean the audio stream. I manually press play when I go to a club. As far as media streams are concerned I don't think I've ever had them enabled at all/used this feature.