Happy Juneteenth!

[Paul Hexem]

This isn't going to end well, so I'll add to it. 

This holiday feels less like actually memorializing or celebrating, and more like virtue signaling. 

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

This holiday feels less like actually memorializing or celebrating, and more like virtue signaling.

Please stop it, Paul.  This is an important moment for Black people in America, and for the country. 

Nice photos of the celebrations today after Juneteenth becomes a national holiday:

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/19/1008368899/photos-americans-celebrate-juneteenth-after-it-becomes-a-national-holiday

[Rowan Amore]

I think someone just worded their response badly.and therefore, I, along with others, may have misinterpreted what they actually meant to say since the response had nothing whatsoever to do with CELEBRATING Junteenth.

[Luna Bliss]

26 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

woke means “aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)”

 

[Qie Niangao]

9 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

a USA thing

Yeah. Kind of a special one, actually. It doesn't celebrate the date of emancipation. Rather, it's the date two and a half years later—a couple months after the end of the Civil War—when the news finally reached former slaves in Texas.

Think about that.

(Also, name another national anthem that begins and ends with a question.)

[Paul Hexem]

23 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Please stop it, Paul.  This is an important moment for Black people in America, and for the country.

I disagree. It's little more than surface level pandering.

Passing meaningful laws with real consequences for violators, those are important moments. 

[Janet Voxel]

4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Ahh...but only one person among many many many decent people on the forum...

 

Oh they’re coming…it’s the weekend.

[Janet Voxel]

15 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

I disagree. It's little more than surface level pandering.

Passing meaningful laws with real consequences for violators, those are important moments. 

On some level, you’re right, but it’s a start. Meanwhile there are states passing legislation  restricting lessons on racism in schools. Only in America…

I wonder, and this is a rhetorical question: what did some of you learn about black people from your parents and in school.

 

 

 

 

[Chris Corvinus]

14 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

I wonder, and this is a rhetorical question: what did some of you learn about black people from your parents and in school.

 

I was taught history in school, the good and the bad. I was raised not to care about skin pigment. That people are people.

The thing is, we can't change history and shouldn't bury it but learn from it. Thats the only way that society can truly progress. We shouldn't be hellbent on skin pigment but here we are. 

Remember kids, color belongs in the rainbow.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Chris Nova

[Chris Corvinus]

11 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

There is much more to accomplish, but still we can celebrate...

 

Also, this should have happened a long time ago.

[Pixie Kobichenko]

30 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

On some level, you’re right, but it’s a start. Meanwhile there are states passing legislation  restricting lessons on racism in schools. Only in America…

I wonder, and this is a rhetorical question: what did some of you learn about black people from your parents and in school.

 

 

 

 

I live in Tulsa (well about 10 minutes south in a suburb) & grew up in Oklahoma City. We were not taught anything about the Tulsa race massacre at all (I graduated HS in 1994).  We did have special education series (like once e wry two weeks) that focused on the five civilized tribes of Oklahoma, the history of Europeans coming into this area & displacing the native peoples, etc thru the Trail of Tears & such.  It was very “white washed” however, the mindset sorta like “& they traded pellets for beads & small pox blankets, sent the children to schools to forcibly learn English & stop using their native tongue” like it was just an afterthought or good thing.

It wasn’t until I’d lived up in this part of the state *about five years now* that I ever knew anything about Greenwood.  I think if I had grown up up here as opposed to OKC I might have known about it, but I can’t say for certain.  I am aware though, when I travel along I-44 to get to the other side of town when I pass by the BOK Center (arena) that is exactly where it took place.  I don’t understand why the city chose to build on this site (there is also a minor league baseball stadium in the same area).  

Having grown up in OKC, I was about 10 miles from the bombing of the Murrah building in OKC sitting in a community college classroom.  You know folks thru the years say “I remember where I was when WW2 ended, when Kennedy was shot, when Armstrong walked on the moon, when the Challenger exploded, the Berlin Wall came down”.  I know where I was on April 19, 1995.  There is a memorial now in the buildings footprint to honor those who were murdered that day.

Tulsa has an entertainment district where the massacre occurred.  My states governor signed a bill limiting discourse on race & gender equality & inequality.  This sums up where a lot of Oklahoma is, & how they were taught, & still think.  😞

But not all of us.  

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Pixie Kobichenko

[Rowan Amore]

4 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

I live in Tulsa (well about 10 minutes south in a suburb) & grew up in Oklahoma City. We were not taught anything about the Tulsa race massacre at all (I graduated HS in 1994).  We did have special education series (like once e wry two weeks) that focused on the five civilized tribes of Oklahoma, the history of Europeans coming into this area & displacing the native peoples, etc thru the Trail of Tears & such.  It was very “white washed” however, the mindset sorta like “& they traded pellets for beads & small pox blankets!” like it was just an afterthought.

It wasn’t until I’d lived up in this part of the state *about five years now* that I ever knew anything about Greenwood.  I think if I had grown up up here as opposed to OKC I might have known about it, but I can’t say for certain.  I am aware though, when I travel along I-44 to get to the other side of town when I pass by the BOK Center (arena) that is exactly where it took place.  I don’t understand why the city chose to build on this site (there is also a minor league baseball stadium in the same area).  

Having grown up in OKC, I was about 10 miles from the bombing of the Murrah building in OKC sitting in a community college classroom.  You know folks thru the years say “I remember where I was when WW2 ended, when Kennedy was shot, when Armstrong walked on the moon, when the Challenger exploded, the Berlin Wall came down”.  I know where I was on April 19, 1995.  There is a memorial now in the buildings footprint to honor those who were murdered that day.

Tulsa has an entertainment district where the massacre occurred.  My states governor signed a bill limiting discourse on race & gender equality & inequality.  This sums up where a lot of Oklahoma is, & how they were taught, & still think.  😞

But not all of us.  

 

I don't know about now but when I was in HS, we learned about WW1 and WW2 but not one word about Vietnam.  I think some things are still too sensitive for some people so it's almost ignored in schools.  We learned about slavery but not about MLK.  Nothing about the civil rights movement. (I graduated in 81).  My son though, did learn about the civil rights movement yet still not much about Vietnam.

As events become more 'historic' and less current, people seem more comfortable discussing them or teaching them in schools.  That's always been my opinion.

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Paul Hexem said:

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Please stop it, Paul.  This is an important moment for Black people in America, and for the country.

I disagree. It's little more than surface level pandering.

Passing meaningful laws with real consequences for violators, those are important moments. 

All cultures commemorate or celebrate what they deem is important and meaningful. By celebrating the freeing of slaves and giving the issue a prominent place in society (a national holiday) we are clearly denouncing slavery and making a statement that it is not right to enslave other human beings. Now it might not do any actual good this very day in terms of prosecuting racists or getting rid of injustices via laws, but in the future it will send a clear message to all those who value dominating others that we do not approve. Teaching values, especially to children, is vital to a society. And when people have values that include respect for others there is less need for laws and any sort of prosecution because less laws would be broken.

But aside from the practical application of laws that can be used against violators, with this commemoration we are demonstrating a long overdue respect toward Black people and an acknowledgement that what we did to them throughout the years of slavery was wrong. It certainly appears most Black people are very excited about the development, and this is what matters -- who are we to say, as white people, that it doesn't matter to them? They can tell us whether it does or not. And it certainly appears to matter to the grandmother who fought for a decade to make Juneteenth a national holiday:

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/17/1007498876/how-juneteenth-became-national-holiday

And as Pixie has pointed out, much Black History is missing from the public record -- let's get more Black History into our children's textbooks.  People without a voice and a known past generally feel they don't matter or belong.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

42 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Meanwhile there are states passing legislation  restricting lessons on racism in schools. Only in America…

Just had to requote this. It's hard to believe there is an insane movement in the U.S. to prevent children from learning about racism.

[Pixie Kobichenko]

37 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I don't know about now but when I was in HS, we learned about WW1 and WW2 but not one word about Vietnam.  I think some things are still too sensitive for some people so it's almost ignored in schools.  We learned about slavery but not about MLK.  Nothing about the civil rights movement. (I graduated in 81).  My son though, did learn about the civil rights movement yet still not much about Vietnam.

As events become more 'historic' and less current, people seem more comfortable discussing them or teaching them in schools.  That's always been my opinion.

I agree with your thoughts that as things become historic, people become comfortable with more discussion but it’s really not the mindset here (hence the legislation I mentioned).  Tulsa has also for this summer & last been looking for the suspected mass graves from the massacre. (Currently we really don’t know where the bodies were put,  The Arkansas River runs very close & it’s thought that many were just dumped there).   This past week they found a pit containing lots of small children & the news made it sound like they’re not sure if they are the result of some other event.  The news didn’t say what that might be but I’m going to assume maybe from the 1918-20 flu.  
 

Sooooo many people on the FB & Twitter posts of my local news networks are clicking the laugh emoji & saying things like “they’re dead, what does it matter?”   It matters just like Dachau & Auschwitz & Jonestown & Waco & 9/11 matters.   How can we learn & do better if we push these things to the side.  Their names are important.  Names to faces, places to remember.  Not just statistics.  Their descendants (who do want to know) have that right.  They mattered.   

& back around to Happy Juneteenth, cause it’s not being woke, liberal or pandering.  It’s being decent & acknowledging our wrongs so we can make things better.
 

[Paul Hexem]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Just had to requote this. It's hard to believe there is an insane movement in the U.S. to prevent children from learning about racism.

I'd like to think it's because we should learn about history- all of it- regardless of singling out certain types of people. 

[Pixie Kobichenko]

14 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

I'd like to think it's because we should learn about history- all of it- regardless of singling out certain types of people. 

But this legislation, at least in Oklahoma is in response to the mindset that critical race theory advances one race is superior to the other, or as the governor said in one blip- that he didn’t want his daughter feeling bad about what atrocities white folks perpetuated upon Natives, Blacks, Asians.  He doesn’t want her to grow up giving critical thought over the actions of her ancestors (& mine), & how those actions reverberate thru to today.  

But that is not what is at stake.  It’s enlightening young minds to the problems & shortcomings our society faces due to policies our politicians & voters have enacted.  It’s to encourage them to think about being better to everyone, not “being they who are better than someone else”.

These things need to be discussed.

But that hedges too much towards equality.

As the parent of a lgbtq 🏳️‍🌈 adult child, it scares me what they face from others bigotry- the dangers & hypocrisy, just because of who they love.  

 
https://kfor.com/news/oklahoma-legislature/gov-stitt-signs-bill-that-restricts-teaching-of-critical-race-theory-in-oklahoma-schools/

Edited June 20, 2021 by Pixie Kobichenko

[Lyssa Greymoon]

16 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

I'd like to think it's because we should learn about history- all of it- regardless of singling out certain types of people. 

I’d like to think Elon Musk is going to build a bridge to Mars made of candy.

[Paul Hexem]

42 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

But this legislation, at least in Oklahoma is in response to the mindset that critical race theory advances one race is superior to the other, or as the governor said in one blip- that he didn’t want his daughter feeling bad about what atrocities white folks perpetuated upon Natives, Blacks, Asians.  He doesn’t want her to grow up giving critical thought over the actions of her ancestors (& mine), & how those actions reverberate thru to today.  

But that is not what is at stake.  It’s enlightening young minds to the problems & shortcomings our society faces due to policies our politicians & voters have enacted.  It’s to encourage them to think about being better to everyone, not “being they who are better than someone else”.

These things need to be discussed.

But that hedges too much towards equality.

As the parent of a lgbtq 🏳️‍🌈 adult child, it scares me what they face from others bigotry- the dangers & hypocrisy, just because of who they love.  

 
https://kfor.com/news/oklahoma-legislature/gov-stitt-signs-bill-that-restricts-teaching-of-critical-race-theory-in-oklahoma-schools/

I'll always have trouble agreeing with the concept that prioritizing race somehow reduces racism. We should be teaching history, including all the good and bad and why it's good or bad, not literally segregating specific parts of it.

 

39 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

I’d like to think Elon Musk is going to build a bridge to Mars made of candy.

Get some weed in him and that sounds like a good time.

[Alwin Alcott]

4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Think about that.

i'm no American, if i think about it or not, it won't change anything for me.
As you could see in other posts from dutchies we here aleady have such celebration since long time together with our former main slave colonies.

[Alwin Alcott]

5 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Please stop it..  This is an important moment for Black people in America, and for the country. 

Not to stirr this thread up, it's sometimes OK to talk about subjects taken differently by others. But don't lecture for things you also never do... going on going on and going on.

And many replies here show again, the main problem is the USA system, all is swept under the carpets. A system we never had and for that the movements from last years have brought nothing new to many other countries.
You got teached with a seperation, we didn't. Stop blaming moderate opinions as bad or against. Many european countries are 40 years ahead of you.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Alwin Alcott

[Jordyn McGregor]

[Finite]

2 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

Not to stirr this thread up, it's sometimes OK to talk about subjects taken differently by others. But don't lecture for things you also never do... going on going on and going on.

And many replies here show again, the main problem is the USA system, all is swept under the carpets. A system we never had and for that the movements from last years have brought nothing new to many other countries.
You got teached with a seperation, we didn't. Stop blaming moderate opinions as bad or against. Many european countries are 40 years ahead of you.

Which? I can’t think of any that are as diverse. 
Also the thread is a simple happy holiday message. But seems it baited some to expose themselves for what they are.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Finite

[Desiree Moonwinder]

The boys of my generation were sent to get shot up in Vietnam for no apparent reason other than to discipline us for otherwise enjoying life and having a good time. 

I'm not sure what "Independence Day" to pin-on, but the Independence Era for me was when the draft ended (date is complicated https://www.sss.gov/history-and-records/vietnam-lotteries/) and pulled out of Vietnam (April 1975). 

Quote

The sentiment, especially among conservative voices in America, was that the sacrifice of so many killed and wounded in Vietnam would be in vain if America simply withdrew from the war. That attitude was held up to scrutiny in a televised Capitol Hill testimony by a member of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, future Massachusetts senator, presidential candidate, and secretary of state, John Kerry. On April 22, 1971, speaking of losses in Vietnam and the desire to remain in the war, Kerry asked,

“How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?”  

https://www.thoughtco.com/why-did-us-enter-vietnam-war-195158

All I could tell was that the old people wanted to send the young people off to Vietnam for disciplinary purposes.  We were otherwise having a good time, and they didn't like that yet we we of legal age and they couldn't spank us.  So, they invented some pretext to draft the boys and send them off to die for no good reason. 

[Alwin Alcott]

2 hours ago, Finite said:

 it baited some to expose themselves for what they are.

i NOWHERE said i am against it, but you prefer to read it that way. And that is so typical for some here.
Same happened in those old BLM threads, moderate behaviour in these matters isn't accepted. 
I know where the problem is ... not here.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Alwin Alcott