Should Merchants Ban Residents from Purchases?

[Prokofy Neva]

34 minutes ago, FreeToSL said:

Just to summarize, individual control: good,  discrimination: bad.  I hope that clears up any misunderstandings.

BTW, if you are a merchant, you are hiding behind a 3-month-old alt with no picture, sparse groups, and little activity to express your views. 

[FreeToSL]

3 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

BTW, if you are a merchant, you are hiding behind a 3-month-old alt with no picture, sparse groups, and little activity to express your views. 

And how does that affect my arguments, Sherlock Holmes ?

[Prokofy Neva]

27 minutes ago, FreeToSL said:

And how does that affect my arguments, Sherlock Holmes ?

Because you are not willing to put your money -- or lose your money -- where your mouth is. You want to flog bad suggestions in the forums but ensure that they never impact you with reciprocal behaviour. Gaf-gaf.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 6/21/2021 at 12:45 PM, AnnabelleApocalypse said:

Your the one that brought up communism and made the original absurd exaggeration. I was just riffing on your ridiculousness. Don't blame me for what you started. Cheeky

Its only "unfreedom" for the customer. And the customer is still free to shop elsewhere. Its freedom from the merchants perspective. 

Freedom to associate and transact with whoever they please. Without threat or coercion.

You know.....Capitalism.

For something your so fond of, you seem to have a hard time identifying it. 

 

When you grant absolute freedom to the merchant, especially to engage in unruly and arbitrary behaviour like banning people who give bad reviews or complain of defects, you are not creating a healthy and free economy. Far from it, you are making a coercive one in which merchants are free to shill and block critics and create inferior products and keep the public in the dark. That's not liberal democracy or a free market, but a controlled one in which the state decides who can sell and what. You seem to have a hard time recognizing that your notion of freedom for the merchant that proscribes a true free market for everybody in fact leads to an unfree market. A customer isn't free to shop when he is blocked by one and it may turn into a blanket block by a cartel.

You have to think of systems holistically, with all their parts and sides, and not just favour your favourite side and grant them freedom based on the oppression of others.

[FreeToSL]

On 7/21/2021 at 9:31 PM, Prokofy Neva said:

Because you are not willing to put your money -- or lose your money -- where your mouth is. You want to flog bad suggestions in the forums but ensure that they never impact you with reciprocal behaviour. Gaf-gaf.

I didnt know I had to be a member of the guild to post a comment, you should edit your OP to reflect that only verified store owners can post, using their main account.

Good luck enforcing it.

[AnnabelleApocalypse]

On 7/22/2021 at 1:34 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

When you grant absolute freedom to the merchant, especially to engage in unruly and arbitrary behaviour like banning people who give bad reviews or complain of defects, you are not creating a healthy and free economy. Far from it, you are making a coercive one in which merchants are free to shill and block critics and create inferior products and keep the public in the dark. That's not liberal democracy or a free market, but a controlled one in which the state decides who can sell and what. You seem to have a hard time recognizing that your notion of freedom for the merchant that proscribes a true free market for everybody in fact leads to an unfree market. A customer isn't free to shop when he is blocked by one and it may turn into a blanket block by a cartel.

You have to think of systems holistically, with all their parts and sides, and not just favour your favourite side and grant them freedom based on the oppression of others.

No, because as I said previously. your reviews still stand. Nobody is being kept in the dark. Your simply being precluded from making further purchases because the merchant doesn't want to deal with you anymore. People are not obliged to deal with your crap or serve you.

And if a merchant has any sense, its not something they are going to be trigger-happy with. Otherwise the merchant will gain a negative reputation. it does work both ways. Hardly "absolute freedom for a merchant". 

Also, Merchant are "the state" now? I don't see how you make the jump from say, me banning you from my store to a totally state controlled economy. But then I don't see how you make the jump between a lot of your points.

arguing with you is like mudwrestling a pig  but less fun. You seem like you need a hug. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by AnnabelleApocalypse

[Prokofy Neva]

13 minutes ago, AnnabelleApocalypse said:

No, because as I said previously. your reviews still stand. Nobody is being kept in the dark. Your simply being precluded from making further purchases because the merchant doesn't want to deal with you anymore. People are not obliged to deal with your crap or serve you.

And if a merchant has any sense, its not something they are going to be trigger-happy with. Otherwise the merchant will gain a negative reputation. it does work both ways. Hardly "absolute freedom for a merchant". 

Also, Merchant are "the state" now? I don't see how you make the jump from say, me banning you from my store to a totally state controlled economy. But then I don't see how you make the jump between a lot of your points.

arguing with you is like mudwrestling a pig  but less fun. You seem like you need a hug. 

No, I'm good.

I think it's relevant to point out once again as you have shaped a false narrative in your mind that no one has banned me due to a bad review. I rarely leave bad reviews. I contact the merchant directly if there is a problem. When I have left a bad review very rarely, I have plenty of company and usually the merchant isn't even answering, let alone banning me from her vendor.

One person has banned me from their vendor because more than 10 years ago, when their content was featured on the front page of the Second Life site, I criticized this content as not being very good compared to what else was out there, and also the system whereby Lindens singled out a few of their friends to put on the front page was a problematic one. So this very valid statement -- whose validity has increased with time as the Linden don't do that kind of obvious favouritism any more -- as a reason for a vendor ban 10 years later is pretty crazy.

Another vendor ban is because again, a Linden favourite and contractor with an inside track, who harassed me on the forums because I criticized this system of favouritism, banned me from her vendor 10 years later when that became possible. Again, not a reason for a ban, and PS my comments have only become more valid because again, that particularly blatant form of favouritism and inside deals is far less practiced now.

I could continue with examples. Another land ban and vendor ban was related to my criticism of an SLCC organizer for not granting IP rights to musicians who would be played and recorded during the event. I think most people agreed with me that there was no reason to remove their rights. 

A merchant who has banned me from her store and vendor lately, after I complained privately (not in a public review) that the product wasn't working as advertised, appears to have banned me related to some land dispute on her friend's sim, although maybe for both reasons. Again, not what you imagine.

The Lindens, which are de facto the state, control the Marketplace in many ways, obvious and subtle. Again, you have to reason conceptually and by analogy.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Prokofy Neva

[AnnabelleApocalypse]

Apart from the last line of my last comment, I'm using the hypothetical "you" not the actual one. Though I am well aware that you are SL's most notorious curmudgeon, I dont pretend to know anything much about you or what you get up to beyond that. But the example of leaving a negative review is the most obvious example of having a beef with a merchant.

And to be clear, I am not saying every merchant will behave "correctly" or with integrity in every circumstance, and I dont afford customers that belief either. But I do believe that "the market" will mostly balance it out.

A trigger happy merchant who loves banning people will hit their sales and reputation.

An overly demanding customer will end up with a limited pool to purchase from.

My point is very simple. People are free to ban you. for whatever reason. Period. 

You can moan about it and pontificate about abstract economic/political concepts if it makes you feel better......I guess. But it comes down to basic human interaction.

If I have something you want, but dont want to sell it to you, tough cookie.

If I own land and dont want to let you on it, also tough cookie.

If a for-profit company wants to favor another party over you, triple-chocolate tough cookie with rainbow sprinkles.

Maybe try being nicer to people?  Its no fun dealing with someone who has a constant chip on their shoulder. And you do seem to generate quite a lot of drama (speaking as an unqualified observer).

Edited July 28, 2021 by AnnabelleApocalypse

[Morcinna]

The biggest reason I can see to block a customer, is if they have broken your TOS. Full perm sellers are the most likely to have this issue. But any products with some sort of TOS may wish to do this. 

[Cube Republic]

This just happens when you block someone in SL, the marketplace then throws an error when you try and buy. SL isn't the real world, people use the marketplace as a griefing vector to attack folk they might have fallen out with.  

[Quistess Alpha]

1 hour ago, Cube Republic said:

SL isn't the real world, people use the marketplace as a griefing vector to attack folk they might have fallen out with.

I'm sure 'people' includes merchants and customers alike.