JanuarySwan Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said: In the UK, presumably it's PRS for Music if it's anyone, but I'm not really sure, but would that give me the right to play my stream to an American or Japanese visitor to my club? This is the pay for stream for the U.K.? Is that what you are saying? Well, of course others can listen, if that's the internet stream provider for the U.K. for the internet, they can play their stream for whomever is there I would assume with an exception of North Korea wherein that leader said death penalty for anyone trying to sneak in K-Pop into North Korea and hard labor/jail time for those who own or play K-Pop. But, North Korea is an odd exception. Also, I've never heard of having to pay per song to a DJ on the American radio? However, our radios are paid for by the advertisers or adverts as they are often called in Europe, and then radios pay out royalties through companies that process those payouts according to the radio plays each song received. I don't think it is against any countries laws, other than North Korea perhaps, to be a listener. Listeners usually aren't the ones paying the license; it's the player who pays the license. It sounds like in the Netherlands they don't want to pay for licenses, so no one is allowed to hear it albeit they believe privately they are allowed to hear/play it, whatever privately means to them...?. If their government broadcasters paid for the licenses, anyone can hear songs on the radio, TV or internet. The listener does not pay unless it's a music/juke box but those don't exist except in rare retro environments. DJ's pay for their stream and those streaming companies are supposed to pay royalties to the artist as per their contract. DJ's in SL, since there are no advertisers or very few (ad boards for some), DJ's and staff work for tips. SL music mostly is paid for plus I thought MEDIA/SOUND only takes certain URLS but I need a pro to clarify that URL thing. But, what I'm saying is the music in SL when a DJ is playing it is already paid, or the club is paying for their own stream which is legal as far as I know. DJ's work for tips to help cover their costs. Edited June 13, 2021 by JanuarySwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 1 minute ago, JanuarySwan said: This is the pay for stream for the U.K.? Is that what you are saying? Well, of course others can listen, if that's the internet stream provider for the U.K. for the internet, they can play their stream for whomever is there I would assume with an exception of North Korea wherein that leader said death penalty for anyone trying to sneak in K-Pop into North Korea and hard labor/jail time for those who own or play K-Pop. But, North Korea is an odd exception. Also, I've never heard of having to pay per song to a DJ on the American radio? However, our radios are paid for by the advertisers or adverts as they are often called in Europe, and then radios pay out royalties through companies that process those payouts according to the radio plays each song received. I don't think it is against any countries laws, other than North Korea perhaps, to be a listener. Listeners usually aren't the ones paying the license; it's the player who pays the license. It sounds like in the Netherlands they don't want to pay for licenses, so no one is allowed to hear it albeit they believe privately they allowed to hear/play it, whatever privately means to them...?. If their government paid for the licenses, anyone can hear songs on the radio, TV or internet. The listener does not pay unless it's a music/juke box but those don't exist except in rare retro environments. DJ's pay for their stream and those streaming companies are supposed to pay royalties to the artist as per their contract. DJ's in SL, since there are no advertisers or very few (ad boards for some), DJ's and staff work for tips. SL music mostly is paid for plus I thought MEDIA/SOUND only takes certain URLS but I need a pro to clarify that URL thing. But, what I'm saying is the music in SL when a DJ is playing it is already paid, or the club is paying for their own stream which is legal as far as I know. I'm really not sure what the legal situation is in the UK. I know roughly what the rules are for licencing digital material to use in places like bars, restaurants and clubs, but not if they'd apply to livestreaming the same material to an audience in SL for tips (that would depend on the relevant legislation and licences, whatever they are). Nor do I know how it would work with international broadcast rights (I have to use a VPN to view particular US material, even short extracts from some late night chat shows, for example, because of different distribution and broadcast rights in the US vs UK). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rat Luv Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Imagine if the PRS sent investigators into SL...they'd end up running through lag in Freebie Galaxy with half their inventories attached to their heads, listening to "We Are Family" and trying to work out which Bloodlines recruiter's 'the DJ' 🙂 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 1 hour ago, JanuarySwan said: DJ's pay for their stream and those streaming companies are supposed to pay royalties to the artist as per their contract. From Shoutcast's website. I know a lot of venues use this. What about licensing? Shoutcast does not provide any music licensing of any kind to the stations that stream using our software and services, click here for more info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desiree Moonwinder Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 There is the source IP address and the destination IP addresses for any regulatory issues, and the country locations tied to the IP addresses. Country locations are relevant because licensing terms are different in different countries. There is no need for regulators to come in-world; the IP addresses say it all. Likewise, there is no "for-profit" or "not for profit" distinction for royalties. The inworld issue is a moral one for the listeners. 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanuarySwan Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: From Shoutcast's website. I know a lot of venues use this. What about licensing? Shoutcast does not provide any music licensing of any kind to the stations that stream using our software and services, click here for more info. There was no live link there in your post. I looked up Shoutcast and I see it says to obtain a license from Sound Exchange. I remember this vaguely because I had wanted to DJ a few years ago and remember reading the Sound Exchange page briefly. I am not a DJ in SL though so I'm not familiar with all the goings on within the music here. https://www.soundexchange.com/ This is Shoutcast's page where it says to get a license from Sound Exchange. https://help.shoutcast.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000936894-Where-can-I-find-more-information-about-music-licensing- Edited June 14, 2021 by JanuarySwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said: There was no live link there in your post. I looked up Shoutcast and I see it says to obtain a license from Sound Exchange. I remember this vaguely because I had wanted to DJ a few years ago and remember reading the Sound Exchange page briefly. I am not a DJ in SL though so I'm not familiar with all the goings on within the music here. https://www.soundexchange.com/ Sorry. This is the link. https://help.shoutcast.com/hc/en-us/sections/115000265374-Music-Copyrights-Licensing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanuarySwan Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: Sorry. This is the link. https://help.shoutcast.com/hc/en-us/sections/115000265374-Music-Copyrights-Licensing I edited my post above but I'll add another link here too... This is the link on Shoutcast where it says to get a license from Sound Exchange. https://help.shoutcast.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000936894-Where-can-I-find-more-information-about-music-licensing- 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritSparrow Skydancer Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Rat Luv said: Imagine if the PRS sent investigators into SL...they'd end up running through lag in Freebie Galaxy with half their inventories attached to their heads, listening to "We Are Family" and trying to work out which Bloodlines recruiter's 'the DJ' 🙂 lol bravo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritSparrow Skydancer Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20191219005798/en/Music-Streaming-Services-Refuse-to-Pay-Songwriters-While-Profiting-from-Their-Music Is streaming music legal? Unless you have a business-specific plan, songs on streaming platforms are generally licensed for single use. You need to purchase a Public Performance License (PPL) to play songs legally in your business locations. This is why companies like Walmart always had prerecorded audios they played that they bought rights to, then later Walmart Radio. I am sure Target is the same, Macys etc.. https://www.engadget.com/2020-01-29-lawsuits-unlicensed-music-streaming.html I would assume the only reason LL was not targeted was that they are not actually allowing people to copy what is streamed, I am not aware of a Viewer function that allows that. It's not like the movie theater is liable because some shady punk uses his iPhone to film the latest release. SHADY business Skimming the laws and hoping no one sues you. Whatever you do you, but I will not contribute to it. Edited June 14, 2021 by Tarina Sewell 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanuarySwan Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said: What about licensing? Shoutcast does not provide any music licensing of any kind to the stations that stream using our software and services, click here for more info. Just to further clarify, I was going to be a DJ in SL and studied up on what to do a bit but real life plans changed for me so it ended up not a plan for me. But, I was told I would need to get a license. From the SL Wiki, it does say, one needs to get a license. Remember that streaming copyrighted music across the internet requires a license from your relevant national licensing authority. (It says this in the first paragraph in the SL Wiki below.) http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Streaming_Music Edited June 14, 2021 by JanuarySwan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritSparrow Skydancer Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said: Just to further clarify, I was going to be a DJ in SL and studied up on what to do a bit but real life plans changed for me so it ended up not a plan for me. But, I was told I would need to get a license. From the SL Wiki, it does say, one needs to get a license. Remember that streaming copyrighted music across the internet requires a license from your relevant national licensing authority. (It says this in the first paragraph in the SL Wiki below.) http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Streaming_Music Nice find there January 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritSparrow Skydancer Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said: DJs have to pay for the streaming service so if all they are making are tips they probably are just breaking even. Tips are not profit, they are income. Profit is what you have left over after all expenses have been deducted. You totally missed the point. It is a matter of ethics and morals. But hey whatever get you through the day ; ) Edited June 14, 2021 by Tarina Sewell 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desiree Moonwinder Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said: Just to further clarify, I was going to be a DJ in SL and studied up on what to do a bit but real life plans changed for me so it ended up not a plan for me. But, I was told I would need to get a license. From the SL Wiki, it does say, one needs to get a license. Remember that streaming copyrighted music across the internet requires a license from your relevant national licensing authority. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Streaming_Music If you stream music on the internet, you have to comply with copyright law or you are on the wrong side of the law. For most music, that means paying royalties. There are many clumsy attempts at Willful Blindness, but they are transparent for what they are. Edited June 14, 2021 by Desiree Moonwinder replaced one instance of "are" with "or" 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritSparrow Skydancer Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 The exceptions as I understand it is if you are having a private party or wedding, funeral etc and are not charging or getting any monies from such. The fine line is receiving any money profit or not. And this is where it gets shady in SL. as I see it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritSparrow Skydancer Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 There is a lot of great information here as well. http://www.copyright.com/blog/music-licensing-public-performance-license-synchronization/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desiree Moonwinder Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 No exception for nonprofit: https://www.broadcastlawblog.com/2021/05/articles/copyright-royalty-board-decision-on-webcasting-royalties-expected-by-june-14-what-will-the-streaming-rates-for-2021-2025-be/#more-7717 We covered all this in a recent thread. There are older threads that say almost the same thing. There are many clumsy attempts at Willful Blindness, but they are transparent for what they are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 13 minutes ago, Tarina Sewell said: You totally missed the point. It is a matter of ethics and morals. But hey whatever get you through the day ; ) There is nothing immoral or unethical about it. Next you'll be wanting people to pay for the oxygen they breathe because ethics and morals. 🙄 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanuarySwan Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Desiree Moonwinder said: If you stream music on the internet, you have to comply with copyright law or you are on the wrong side of the law. For most music, that means paying royalties. There are many clumsy attempts at Willful Blindness, but they are transparent for what they are. What? The license and service do pay royalties. What else is copyright law on the internet in a nutshell besides royalties according to YOU as I don't have time to read threads and such. Edited June 14, 2021 by JanuarySwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritSparrow Skydancer Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 11 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said: There is nothing immoral or unethical about it. As stated in several posts, to stream music you need a license. That you do not find it unethical that many do not have said license is .. really a statement to your morals. So I would say, your statement is profoundly inaccurate. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaylinbridges Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 38 minutes ago, Tarina Sewell said: SHADY business Skimming the laws and hoping no one sues you. I found another tune for you, from a Shady boy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper Held Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) On 6/8/2021 at 3:12 PM, LittleMe Jewell said: If you can afford to tip and you like the DJ, then big faux pas IMO -- otherwise, don't sweat it. I'm not sure why you kids needed to blather on for 5 pages when the correct answer was in the 2nd post ... Edited June 14, 2021 by Han Held 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanuarySwan Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, Tarina Sewell said: As stated in several posts, to stream music you need a license. That you do not find it unethical that many do not have said license is .. really a statement to your morals. So I would say, your statement is profoundly inaccurate. I do not believe every individual has to have a license. If a club has one stream and license and DJ's have to use that, it's legal. It's like a radio station or even a church, they have several using the stream, not just one. I was told I needed a license most likely because I didn't have a job yet and more or less would have started out as an independent DJ, one not hired by a club with said license already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritSparrow Skydancer Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said: I do not believe every individual has to have a license. If a club has one stream and license and DJ's have to use that, it's legal. It's like a radio station or even a church, they have several using the stream, not just one. I was told I needed a license most likely because I didn't have a job yet and more or less would have started out as an independent DJ, one not hired by a club with said license already. You are correct, the venue wold hold the license, Unless the actual DJ did hold one, both cover each other. (as I understood it) I remember Kimmie has a rl club and she herself owns a license (or did) so her performers were covered. Edited June 14, 2021 by Tarina Sewell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritSparrow Skydancer Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Han Held said: I'm not sure why you kids needed to blather on for 5 pages when the correct answer was in the 2nd post ... Also, there is no correct answer to the OP.. She asked for opinion. Edited June 14, 2021 by Tarina Sewell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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