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listening without tipping: yea or nay?


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22 hours ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

There is another thread about that. Same with some parks now. Saw a sign at a public park "Do to music regulations, no sound devices playing copyrighted music." And some of us oldies remember taking a transistor radio to the beach in the ancient days.

I blame it mostly on record labels greed. I think mine was flagged by Warner brothers or mgm can’t remember… I do miss the days of waiting for a song to be played on the radio and trying to get a good copy as your mom shouts at you to clean your room… ahh good times!! 

Edited by Tarina Sewell
Copies using cassette tape kids, Google it. Lol
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8 hours ago, Wyntir Evergarden said:

Everything in SL is just a luxory. Nobody is required to do anything, demand anything, or pay anything if they dont want to or cant. Nobody is entitled to demand it from anyone for any reason either. Not everyone you meet will be able to afford to drop L$ on every DJ they hear. They may wish they could but its nobodies place to even ask them why they cant.

It doesnt mean people should not be allowed to enjoy going anywhere just because they dont have L$. What a crap way of thinking. Demanding all newer people or even older residents that have little or nothing to spare hand over money if they enter is very off-putting. In my younger years i had experienced some bad club ownership with aggressive rude owners harassing new patrons demanding they tip their staff and asking them why they cant and what they do with their L$.  

Some people just go to a club because they hope to meet new people and socialize. They dont necessarily care for the music or even listen to it. Some go to live music events to enjoy the experience but cant afford tip.Not everybody has money. It doesnt mean that in the virtual world they shouldnt  be there enjoying things too. This is SL not the real world. You cant compare every single situation to the real world because its never going to be the same thing. 

^^^^THIS! I can't like this post enough.  If you can't afford to pay for your venue or DJ "hobby" and yes, it's a hobby you should not be doing it. I factor in my premium membership and my tier in my monthly budget just as everyone else should.

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1 hour ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

If you can't afford to pay for your venue or DJ "hobby" and yes, it's a hobby you should not be doing it. I factor in my premium membership and my tier in my monthly budget just as everyone else should.

Any business can be a hobby if you cannot cover your expenses.  But the dollar amounts should not be compared to RL vs SL.  Why would I rather fry burgers for $15/hr in RL, instead of DJ in SL?  There is no comparison, because I get to decide what I do with my retirement time.  My RL expenses are covered without SL.

However I don't like hobbies in SL.  If I am going to spend MY time on a schedule doing real work in SL, I at least want to break even.  DJ's usually work for someone else, who makes the rules.  If I don't show for my sets, I would lose the sets and be dumped off the staff.  Nothing voluntary or hobby like about working in a club for someone else.

My monthly SL expenses, including Premium, private lands, stream expenses (I have two streams), and subscriptions to RL music services so I can keep up to date, are around $50 USD/month.  My tips amount to about $150 USD/month, so it's not a hobby.  But in RL I used to make $150 USD/hour, not a month - but who cares - I am doing what I love to do.

I also have another SL "hobby" that is actually a slightly  profitable business.  It's not supposed to be, but 10 years experience in that business helps.  And no, I am not saying what that is, because I don't need any more competition.

Edited by Jaylinbridges
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3 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

If I am going to spend MY time on a schedule doing real work in SL, I at least want to break even.  DJ's usually work for someone else, who makes the rules.  If I don't show for my sets, I would lose the sets and be dumped off the staff.  Nothing voluntary or hobby like about working in a club for someone else.

 

Then the venue should pay you and they should pay their tier out of their own money.  

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13 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Then the venue should pay you and they should pay their tier out of their own money

Say what?  Venue's don't pay DJ's because, you know, all we do is play other people's music, which must be somewhere near flushing your toilet after use on the skill level.  Live entertainers, learn a song, then sing it 1000 times over at the same venues for years, so they need no preparation, and get paid 4000 $L/ hour for that.  That's why DJ's appreciate a tip if you are entertaining the crowd, because otherwise we work for free.

Most club owners I know break even most months.  That's why they stay in business.  We ask that our patrons tip the venue of course.  Or we would be fired for not supporting their club.

Not many serious SLer's keep any business that is a money pit for long.  Only the profitable ones survive.

 

Edited by Jaylinbridges
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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cKKJV0Aiiv0" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

This was in response to "DJ business in SL must be super shady"

worked this time!  plain text it is

Edited by Jaylinbridges
thanks Sid, Now how do I delete the inserted code that didn't work.
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On 6/10/2021 at 4:12 PM, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

When my man DJed at one club he would play mainly classic Rock and Blues which was their theme --- but since we have a very large music library he would dig into the vault for stuff rarely played in world or even on the radio. Also since we originally grew up in the Michigan area ages ago they stream was styled after a long gone radio station, Keener 13.

That's happened to my man too, especially by the owner of the club when a song from an artist who did not support a certain former political leader.

Kimmi,

I have a disability that makes speaking difficult for me, so I fall within the realm you described in your full post.

That being said, the biggest tips I recieve generally come after I’ve dug up something that *resonates* with my audience (I’m mainly a retro DJ) and has not been heard popularly heard in a long time. I am active in chat with the guests - so I do just as many “implied requests” based on what they are talking about as anything else.

Its a real thrill for me to get an IM of the “OMG, that song meant so much to be back when and have not heard it in years!!”

They seem to like that plus the fact that I am not talking over the music constantly or “ummming” into a mic 🙂

It takes all kinds of DJing to satisfy a diverse world, so even people like me have our niche :-)

 

image.gif

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2 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

However I don't like hobbies in SL.  If I am going to spend MY time on a schedule doing real work in SL, I at least want to break even.  DJ's usually work for someone else, who makes the rules.  If I don't show for my sets, I would lose the sets and be dumped off the staff.  Nothing voluntary or hobby like about working in a club for someone else.

   Bollocks. 

   Of course it's voluntary. You don't get pressganged into DJing in SL. You sign up for it, it's your choice to do it - it's up to you to understand what it is you're signing up for. There's nothing that says a hobby involving other people can't demand you show up when you've said you will - if you join a WH40K tournament and don't show up to your matches, you'll be disqualified just the same way an entertainer in SL will be booted when failing to show up at their sets.

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2 hours ago, Orwar said:

   Bollocks. 

   Of course it's voluntary. You don't get pressganged into DJing in SL. You sign up for it, it's your choice to do it - it's up to you to understand what it is you're signing up for. There's nothing that says a hobby involving other people can't demand you show up when you've said you will - if you join a WH40K tournament and don't show up to your matches, you'll be disqualified just the same way an entertainer in SL will be booted when failing to show up at their sets.

I said, if I am going to play, I would like to break even at least, after my expenses.  Where you got the rest of that I have no idea.  I just pointed out that it is like any other job - since spending my time to lose money is not a job to me.  The clubs are not a charity, nor is the owner. It's just a rather low paying business.

I have been working at the same club for the last 10 years, and I stay there because it is not a hobby, that is, I do better than break even after all expenses.

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4 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

Thanks for letting me look like a fool with this post where I was explaining you something,  by editing your posts above the way you did.
Much appreciated.

You grumpy today Sid?  What are you talking about?  You said enter the url in plain text, so I did, and it worked!  Then I said Thanks Sid.  I also saw that you entered the same url in your post, then deleted it. One ZZ Top video is enough.

I asked you how to delete the Code insert in my later edit comment, since I had tried that before I asked what I was doing wrong.  Since you knew the answer to one question, I thought maybe you knew the other too.  Why is everyone in this forum a nit picker looking for drama?  Well not everyone, but more than normal.  Must be a Covid vaccine side effect. :)

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I usually tip, but I rarely turn on the music stream anymore.  If I'm in a venue, its because of the other people not the DJ.  I prefer to tip the Venue over the DJ, if the venue has a tip jar out.  

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15 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Where did you get the idea that you can't make some money out of a hobby?

I have had hobbies in real life.  I also have done many tax returns. The IRS (our Infernal Revenue Service) defines a hobby as:

If you are not in business to make a profit, the IRS considers your activity as not-for-profit for sport or recreation (that is, a hobby), and it says you cannot deduct expenses to get a loss to offset other income. Many legitimate businesses start out with a loss their first few years.

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/hobby-or-business-irs-offers-tips-to-decide

Is it a Business or a Hobby?  A key feature of a business is that people do it to make a profit. People engage in a hobby for sport or recreation, not to make a profit. Consider nine factors when determining whether an activity is a hobby. Make sure to base the determination on all the facts and circumstances. For more about ‘not-for-profit’ rules, see Publication 535, Business Expenses.

Maybe your country taxes your hobbies?  

When a hobby results in a net Profit, it is no longer a hobby but a business.

 

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Where you got the rest of that I have no idea.

6 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Nothing voluntary or hobby like about working in a club for someone else.

 

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"Nothing voluntary or hobby like about working in a club for someone else"

Ah I see, well that is my opinion. I am sure some DJ's and entertainers work in clubs only as a hobby so they volunteer their time for free.  I am not one of them, unless it is for a good charity cause.

If I volunteer to work for a charity I don't expect to get paid.  I don't volunteer to work at clubs that want you to promote their businesses, while they pay you nothing for your time, OR where the patrons are too cheap to tip the DJ's and hostesses, but somehow think the club owner should be tipped.  

Clubs like that usually have a very limited DJ schedule board, often no scheduled events at all.  But you can come in and listen to the radio stream and use their Intan dance balls.   It's pretty clear that some here think that would be just perfect - no more DJ's or artists, just a building, an internet stream playing, and some dances.

 

 

Edited by Jaylinbridges
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5 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

It's pretty clear that some here think that would be just perfect - no more DJ's or artists, just a building, an internet stream playing, and some dances.

Well the artists are fine; I can see tipping them; they create their own content. 

As for the DJs, their legal status is a concern.  If there were some way to verify that a DJ were operating legally -- paying royalties and all that -- I would be much more comfortable.  We had a recent thread about the legal status of DJs, and the impression that I got from it is that the vast majority are operating in a questionable legal status, to put it mildly. 

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39 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

I have had hobbies in real life.  I also have done many tax returns. The IRS (our Infernal Revenue Service) defines a hobby as:

If you are not in business to make a profit, the IRS considers your activity as not-for-profit for sport or recreation (that is, a hobby), and it says you cannot deduct expenses to get a loss to offset other income. Many legitimate businesses start out with a loss their first few years.

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/hobby-or-business-irs-offers-tips-to-decide

Is it a Business or a Hobby?  A key feature of a business is that people do it to make a profit. People engage in a hobby for sport or recreation, not to make a profit. Consider nine factors when determining whether an activity is a hobby. Make sure to base the determination on all the facts and circumstances. For more about ‘not-for-profit’ rules, see Publication 535, Business Expenses.

Maybe your country taxes your hobbies?  

When a hobby results in a net Profit, it is no longer a hobby but a business.

 

 

 

 

That's one way too look at it BUT what lindens I make from building all go back into buying more building stuffs and I've never cashed out of SL, so SL is a hobby to me and it's hobby lindens that help support my hobby.  It is never money I can use for RL, well, cuz I have over 300 pages of FAVORITIES, so I'm always buying SL stuff.  I will never make more than "hobby money", money that buys me supplies.

I went to a party by a friend recently and she put together an all about space set and it was fun plus I heard songs I've never heard.  I've heard so many of the hits that I'm pretty cold about them.  I have had three little clubs with games, spas to relax in and some events and all my club/hangouts cost me less than $12 dollars a month.  If I ever get up to having some events again I'd like to have some tribute hours to those who have passed away in the last few years, stuff like that.  Something different.  SL music got very old for me, very fast and I never want to hear "Pour Some Sugar on Me" ever again and never wanted to hear that song even once as it's not my cup of tea.  Some of the music is rather stale in SL.  I'd like to hear some of what you consider a good set worth paying for.  Just out of curiosity.

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43 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

That's one way too look at it BUT what lindens I make from building all go back into buying more building stuffs and I've never cashed out of SL, so SL is a hobby to me and it's hobby lindens that help support my hobby.  It is never money I can use for RL, well, cuz I have over 300 pages of FAVORITIES, so I'm always buying SL stuff.  I will never make more than "hobby money", money that buys me supplies.

Same here.
At the moment I'm more or less on the break even point with my current SL business.
When it ever makes more, I will spend more inworld just like you. Most likely on more land. Who knows even a public place.
With my first shop I spend a lot on in world charities and helped out a few friends with L$.

I ain't gonna go through the extra paperwork for the tax office, just to take out a hand full of USD occasionally.
So yeah, what I did so far in SL is pure hobby, even though I made L$ at times.

Edited by Sid Nagy
Small text improvements. Better write things in English than in translated Dutch. :)
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43 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I'd like to hear some of what you consider a good set worth paying for.  Just out of curiosity.

Well that depends on your musical genre tastes first of all.

My set last night played 1/2 new releases that I have not heard anyone play in SL yet.  That is typical of some of my sets - I play new artists, obscure because they are local bands, and new releases in my genre.  A lot of Indie bands and labels before they make it to a major label too. There  was not a song in my set last night I have heard any other DJ at my club play, although I did play some new cover versions of old songs, just released and worthy of a listen.

I have a very deep library with recordings going back 100 years - and it includes full albums, not just the "hit song" from an album.  I played 5 songs last night I had never played before in my life, and I been DJing for 15 years on the internet.  And they were not new songs.  I take requests, and most are the usual top 40 fare, but I play them because they were a request.  Nobody plays "stump the DJ" with me, because I can find anything ever released publicly.  

No sorry I can't play the cassette you made of your high school band graduation party playing "Louie, Louie" in 1978, because you never made any duplicates :)

I voice, work with the crowd, change my playlist on the spot, do themes, and if the music is new or unknown, usually add a few words about it.  Sometimes I am just lazy and stick up a good website review to explain a new group or song,  depending on the crowd size.  The larger the crowd the less talking I do.

I have never even heard of "Pour Some Sugar on Me" so that's a plus. It must be Pop, and I don't do Pop music.

 

 

 

Edited by Jaylinbridges
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13 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Well that depends on your musical genre tastes first of all.

Well, my tastes are not TOP 40.  I love Classical to progressive to Bob Dylan.  I need a great arrangement, amazing guitar work or other instruments, incredible lyrics, etc, so I'm not the run-of-the-mill radio person as my father was an entertainer in real life so I grew up around incredible musicians. 

 

13 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

My set last night played 1/2 new releases that I have not heard anyone play in SL yet.  That is typical of some of my sets - I play new artists, obscure because they are local bands, and new releases in my genre. 

Newbie artists...hmmmmmm...I'd have to hear it because I cannot stand modern pop of today as it sounds like they threw the cheapest backing track on there they could find and didn't even care about the music and they probably don't care because someone will listen for free.

The 21th Century music I've loved the most have been Jack White's various endeavors, plus The Black Keys and Jet has some just great garage rock stuff.  

However, I'd like to hear things I've not heard.

What could be fun is for SL to have a Battle of the DJ'ss contest once a year and we could all vote on the best top 3 DJ's for that year.  It could be fun and interesting to see what the DJ's would come up with.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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11 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Newbie artists...hmmmmmm...I'd have to hear it because I cannot stand modern pop of today as it sounds like they threw the cheapest backing track on there they could find and didn't even care about the music and they probably don't care because someone will listen for free.

There are new artists and bands in other than pop and metal and hip-hop, none of which I play.

By new, I also mean new to SL.  A band that has 12 albums that started in 1972, that because it didn't make the top charts for 3 months, no one plays in SL.  I have thousands of bands with a dozen albums each that never get played in SL. Why?  Because most club owners say play what is popular, what everyone has heard 100 or 1000 times already, because that's why they come here.  Some clubs are ONLY top 40 - play a song that didn't make the commercial list and they will fire you.  And those clubs are some of the largest.  Appeal to the masses, etc.

Have you heard of the Atomic 44's?  A new group but members from other bands - basically a super group with 100 years total experience.  So far they have pre-released one song, and their first album will be released in July of this year.   I don't really like their pre-release, but the rest of the album songs look interesting.  Just one example. I find these things every day. 

 

Edited by Jaylinbridges
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5 hours ago, Amanda Crisp said:

Kimmi,

I have a disability that makes speaking difficult for me, so I fall within the realm you described in your full post.

That being said, the biggest tips I recieve generally come after I’ve dug up something that *resonates* with my audience (I’m mainly a retro DJ) and has not been heard popularly heard in a long time. I am active in chat with the guests - so I do just as many “implied requests” based on what they are talking about as anything else.

Its a real thrill for me to get an IM of the “OMG, that song meant so much to be back when and have not heard it in years!!”

They seem to like that plus the fact that I am not talking over the music constantly or “ummming” into a mic 🙂

It takes all kinds of DJing to satisfy a diverse world, so even people like me have our niche 🙂

 

image.gif

I have an issue that limits my speaking too and made it known in local chat if I filled in for my man for some reason.

Also my man let the songs tell their story and didn't talk over them. He did 2 shifts in a different club and when the owner asked  why he wasn't greeting the people coming in and promoting the stores --- he said many want to hear the music tell their stories and not blab non-stop.

He was let go immediately and banned from the club's parcel. He was told not to play certain songs and the owner got mad when he played someone's request of the Ylvis's "The Fox" song. When someone PMed him the hostess couldn't change the stream, he played the "Take this Job and Shove It" song!

About a month earlier another club let him go since they required the song titles to be turned off and he refused as the streaming licence requires the titles to through to get counted.

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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

SL music got very old for me, very fast and I never want to hear "Pour Some Sugar on Me" ever again and never wanted to hear that song even once as it's not my cup of tea.  Some of the music is rather stale in SL.  I'd like to hear some of what you consider a good set worth paying for.  Just out of curiosity.

Don't get me started on the Jessie's Girl song. Soooooo overplayed in SL and RL radio!

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