listening without tipping: yea or nay?

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, JanuarySwan said:

I don't know why you would stop playing AM/FM radio as it's free for the listeners not the broadcasters though.  The radio stations pays the royalties and all can listen for free.

I don't remember water ever being free but I do remember free TV and free phones.  I think the cable companies want an absolutely outlandish price for cable TV.  And, now we all have to pay for phones too.  Radio is free though and mostly paid for by the advertisers.  I never pay for radio.  Cable and phones pay out the ying and the yang.  

I never minded free TV and it's commercials which used to pay for the TV.  

I stopped listening to the musicians that insisted I should pay every time I listen to one of their songs. The most effective way to do that those decades ago was to turn the radio off and leave it off.

Water has always been free. What you are paying for is the service of piping water into your home and keeping that water potable. Having a telephone in your home was never free. Someone had to pay for even the party lines.

My decisions have nothing to do with commercials and everything to do with greedy musicians.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

14 hours ago, Mollymews said:

i think that hair salon would fall into the public performance category, depending on legal jurisdiction

that the music copyright holders don't chase down every small business doesn't I think change the category.  That is not always enforced, is more about how much effort (cost/return) the copyright holders want to put into chasing down all the businesses

the large industry copyright holders tend to go after large businesses who are able to pay substantially larger amounts of license fees. Positive cost/return for the copyright holders

one independent owner-operated hair salon vs a nationwide chain of hair salons

When we had our night club, it had the appropriate licenses for it and the restaurant. We even had licenses for the attached liquor store although it was technically exempt since it was less then 1000 square feet. We ended up closing it since the property value started shooting way up and the place needed some work. We ended up selling it to a developer. This was in the San Francisco area.

We moved to my man's home town in Sask to retire, but got bored and bought a small bar.

[JanuarySwan]

26 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Having a telephone in your home was never free.

I was trying to remember if I was correct about free phones when I was a little girl.  I always thought the phone was free when I was a kid.  I am mistaken about that then.  

 

27 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

My decisions have nothing to do with commercials and everything to do with greedy musicians.

Greed is prevalent in this world there is no doubt about it.  Money is a made up thing where man decided to place a value on just about everything.  

[FairreLilette]

10 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

Money is a made up thing where man decided to place a value on just about everything.  

There is a saying that money is not worth the paper it is printed on.  

[Orwar]

48 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

There is a saying that money is not worth the paper it is printed on.  

   I've got a couple of square kilometres of paper in the workshop, I'll gladly trade as much of it as you want for an equal area of dollar bills.

[FairreLilette]

10 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   I've got a couple of square kilometres of paper in the workshop, I'll gladly trade as much of it as you want for an equal area of dollar bills.

I'll give you a promissory note for it.  

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 hour ago, JanuarySwan said:

I was trying to remember if I was correct about free phones when I was a little girl.  I always thought the phone was free when I was a kid.  I am mistaken about that then.  

 

Greed is prevalent in this world there is no doubt about it.  Money is a made up thing where man decided to place a value on just about everything.  

Typically you paid for phone service and the phone came with it unless you wanted an upgrade and then you paid monthly for it. I upgraded from a corded phone, which came with the service to a cordless version.

[Rowan Amore]

You also used to have to pay extra for a push button phone instead of the rotary dial.  Ah, memories.

[Sid Nagy]

When I was a kid, we didn't even have a phone.
If we had to make a phone call it was at the neighbors or in a phone booth.

[Silent Mistwalker]

9 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

When I was a kid, we didn't even have a phone.
If we had to make a phone call it was at the neighbors or in a phone booth.

And you had to walk 5 miles to school, one way, in the snow, uphill both ways. 🤭

[Rowan Amore]

21 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

And you had to walk 5 miles to school, one way, in the snow, uphill both ways. 🤭

I did!!!

[Da5id Weatherwax]

First the obligatory caveat: I'm a live performer not a DJ. There are no recorded sounds in my sets. So my experience is likely to be a bit different.

So, we seem to have two subjects here. The easy one is tipping. I'll play and sing for you whether you tip me or not. I'll not deny that the tips I do get finance my SL existence and cover some RL expenses like spare strings, stream rental, wear and tear on my gear etc. However you're welcome to enjoy the tunes whether you tip me or not. If my music isn't to your taste you're welcome to shut off my stream and just hang out with your buddies too, although I'll be grateful if you're not blasting too many audible gestures at the folks who are listening.

On the subject of performing rights, the genre I play in, namely folk, has a vast library of traditional songs which are free to all. The songwriters active in the genre typically set very few conditions on other people wishing to learn and perform their songs, allowing them to become part of the repertoire. If they are successful and have an arrangement with a major label, this has frequently brought them into conflict with that label when they tell somebody like me "Yeah, it's all good, go ahead and play 'em" Fortunately the vast majority of those songwriters and musicians in this genre do have their fellow musicians backs in that regard as much as they can. In addition, those of us who are part of the folk music community can be a pretty obstreperous lot sometimes and there has been more than one label tried to get too restrictive and subsequently backed off from the backlash it generated from their listeners/customers and the sudden slew of "scolding ballads" excoriating their behaviour that were penned by the artists and immediately released to the public domain for all to perform. For the most part, a niche genre like ours isn't worth their hassle and we, for our part, acknowledge and promote the original writers of what we perform where one is known and not lost in the mists of time. Where actual enforcement of rights is concerned, there's a sort of mutual "let's not go there" that has held for the 4 decades or so I've been involved in the genre, a bit like writing "Here be Dragons" on the blank part of the map.

Even when a live performer in SL is playing a more commercial genre, though, a busker on a busy RL street corner is going to have more listeners than even the largest SL venues attract. Probably a significantly higher income for the performer from the street corner too. We're simply not worth their effort.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

5 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

You also used to have to pay extra for a push button phone instead of the rotary dial.  Ah, memories.

Thank you. NOW I feel old!

4 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

And you had to walk 5 miles to school, one way, in the snow, uphill both ways. 🤭

Done that --- although it was with my childhood sweetheart who I'm still married too!

[Silent Mistwalker]

9 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Thank you. NOW I feel old!

Done that --- although it was with my childhood sweetheart who I'm still married too!

Pffft. I remember when push buttons phones didn't exist. And party lines were about the only way people could afford to have a phone only there was zero privacy. You never knew who would be listening in or when someone would yell at you to get off the phone so they could make a call and they don't even live in your house.

And for me it was 10 miles, one way, in the snow, uphill both ways and we had to fight Voldemort going and coming as well. 🤭

[Jaylinbridges]

22 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Performance royalties are generated for the sound recording whenever the recordings are broadcast over digital or satellite radio services. Unlike songwriters, recording artists in the U.S. do not collect performance royalties when their music is broadcast over traditional radio stations (i.e. using terrestrial-based radio transmitters), or in public venues. They only collect performance royalties for digital/Internet radio and satellite radio.

@FairreLilette

I have repeated part of my prior post.  Radio and TV stations do NOT pay Performance Royalties for Recording Artists broadcast over traditional radio stations.  A recording is usually owned by the Recording Company and their lobby organization is called the RIAA.  The Recording performance royalty is paid ONLY by digital Internet stations, and satellite radio stations (that transmit digitally).  This is the royalty fee that has just been increased to $1000 to $100,000 USD/year, paid in advance every year to SoundExchange in the USA. This is the fee that is grossly unfair to small internet stations.  It also should not apply to a DJ that streams his shows on his own stream, but it does.  Some here think that means someone playing music in a virtual club in SL and MUST, by the very nature of the virtual network, use the internet backbone to reach the others in the club, is also liable to pay these Digital broadcast Performance fees.

You only seem to know about the Songwriter Performance fees.  Those are collected by BMI, ASCAP, GMR, and SECAP in the USA.  Those copyright fees are SEPARATE from the Recording fees the RIAA has pushed through Congress in the late 1990's.  

Maybe starting with the basics will help you:

Music Copyrights & Royalties

Music created today is protected by copyright laws when the work is “fixed in a tangible medium of expression.” Any work produced after January 1, 1978 is protected for the lifetime of the last surviving author plus an additional 70 years.

The music business generates multiple types of royalties, and each royalty stream is dependent on the kind of copyright it is associated with.

Every song has two copyrights:

• The Composition: For the song as it is written (think: lyrics & melody)
• The Sound Recording: For the song as it is recorded (what you actually hear)

Everyone must pay for the Composition copyright every time a song is publically performed. But only once.  If you stream a song from Spotify or YouTube, they have already paid the royalty for that play of the song, so you do not need to pay again.

The Sound Recording royalty is ONLY paid by internet streaming and satellite radio services that broadcast to the general public.   This is the huge fee, 4 times the songwriter's fee, that is NOT paid by TV and Radio, because their lobby is large enough to get them an exemption. Land Broadcasts are considered to be promotion of the music.  Internet broadcast apparently are not.  This make zero sense, but it is the power of money.  Collect from the little guy, cause he is too poor to challenge us Mega radio and TV broadcasters.

13 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

As I answered you before to this matter, that may be true for new artists but that's to play probably for a few times and then the radio station does have to pay royalties.

Radio stations only pay the songwriters/composition royalty, as explained above, to ASCAP, BMI and GMR.  But NOT the second license for playing the actual recording!

Edited June 19, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[Jaylinbridges]

20 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

 

Repeat post

Edited June 19, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[Velk Kerang]

5 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

And you had to walk 5 miles to school, one way, in the snow, uphill both ways. 🤭

You are so totally awesome. You just got the totally awesome award. lol And here I thought I was the only one who ever used that line. lol I say that to my kids all the time when they complain. lol I'm like let me tell you something. I don't want to hear it. When I was a kid blah blah blah. And I mowed peoples grass for 5 dollars a yard. Lmao!!!!🤣

 

On the topic of tipping. I don't feel like anyone is obligated to do anything they don't want to do. It is a common courtesy and respect though to do so. If I'm broke and I go out I generally catch them on the next run and just add in a bit extra. I also tip based on how on point people are in their jobs. If your an afk host half the time don't expect a big tip if one at all. lol If your that DJ who leaves yourself on open mic and you fart in to it then I might just tip extra for the laughs. That's just how I roll. Lmao!!!!😁😂🤣😎

[Jaylinbridges]

1 hour ago, Velk Kerang said:

If your that DJ who leaves yourself on open mic and you fart in to it then I might just tip extra for the laughs. That's just how I roll. Lmao!!!!😁😂🤣😎

My mike is on a boom above me, so farting into it would require more dexterity than I have at my age.

I sometimes burp into the mic, do you tip extra for that?

Edited June 19, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[Velk Kerang]

1 minute ago, Jaylinbridges said:

My mike is on a boom above me, so farting into it would require more dexterity than I have at my age.

I sometime burp into the mic, do you tip extra for that?

Heck ya. lol The louder and longer the bigger the tip mate. Lmao!!!!👍😎

[Orwar]

14 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

You also used to have to pay extra for a push button phone instead of the rotary dial.  Ah, memories.

9 hours ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Thank you. NOW I feel old!

   .. The most innovating phone related thing I recall from my childhood was when my father bought a phone with caller ID. And when my grandfather bought a mobile phone that he used as a car phone but that he could also bring along on the golf court - but promptly decided to leave in the car because he didn't want to be rung whilst golfing.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

14 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

My mike is on a boom above me, so farting into it would require more dexterity than I have at my age.

I sometimes burp into the mic, do you tip extra for that?

My man was good for that.  At our bar we have a DJ booth and it's near the hall to the washrooms. One night we had a guest DJ (who was a frontman of a band) and my man walked by --- tooted on the mic --- and went to the can. The who place busted up and I was chasing him with the largest cast iron frying pan I could find in the kitchen!

[Silent Mistwalker]

13 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

My man was good for that.  At our bar we have a DJ booth and it's near the hall to the washrooms. One night we had a guest DJ (who was a frontman of a band) and my man walked by --- tooted on the mic --- and went to the can. The who place busted up and I was chasing him with the largest cast iron frying pan I could find in the kitchen!

 

What is it with us First Nations women that like cast iron skillets and dull, rusty knives so much? 

[Da5id Weatherwax]

2 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

What is it with us First Nations women that like cast iron skillets and dull, rusty knives so much? 

Whatever it is, you share it with our Highland lassies. The rolling pin is bad enough but if she reaches for the skillet then it was offski time 5 minutes ago!