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If this is posted in the wrong place,I'm sorry. Not looking for a specific person's help, just opinions on some Marketplace stuff.

I don't understand Avatars or what it takes to make them, so I decided I'm gonna get a complete one so I don't have to worry about it. I found 3 options, and I'd like some opinions. My current avatar looks good but I'd like to update her and change her look. I don't know what works, or what is outdated, so if you could please give me opinions I would appreciate it. These were all well reviewed, and look good to me, but what do I know. If they're all good to you ,then please tell me which you would pick.

THANKS! AND A BUG HUG!

Option 1-https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Kalhene-ANYA-BENTO-fitted-mesh-bodyHead-v40/19973384?page=1

Option 2-https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Star-Bento-Mesh-Body-Fitted-body-bento-head-bento-hands-Bakes-on-Mesh/18696950

Option 3-https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/50HEAVEN-avatar-animated-Mesh-head-MO-TANNED/9134493

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Posted (edited)

Deleted as I didn't read the post well enough 

 

Edited again:  but I WILL say that you should try the DEMOS before buying and if there is NOT A DEMO -- then don't buy. This is indeed the mantra of the forums. You will hear it often. It saves many tears and much swearing. 

Edited by Chic Aeon
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8 minutes ago, SyndraJade said:

If this is posted in the wrong place,I'm sorry. Not looking for a specific person's help, just opinions on some Marketplace stuff.

I don't understand Avatars or what it takes to make them, so I decided I'm gonna get a complete one so I don't have to worry about it. I found 3 options, and I'd like some opinions. My current avatar looks good but I'd like to update her and change her look. I don't know what works, or what is outdated, so if you could please give me opinions I would appreciate it. These were all well reviewed, and look good to me, but what do I know. If they're all good to you ,then please tell me which you would pick.

THANKS! AND A BUG HUG!

Option 1-https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Kalhene-ANYA-BENTO-fitted-mesh-bodyHead-v40/19973384?page=1

Option 2-https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Star-Bento-Mesh-Body-Fitted-body-bento-head-bento-hands-Bakes-on-Mesh/18696950

Option 3-https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/50HEAVEN-avatar-animated-Mesh-head-MO-TANNED/9134493

IF you feel you want to go this route instead of buying separates, option one would probably be best as most Maitreya clothes will fit.  The other 2 will make it difficult for you to find clothing and shoes as I've never seen anything available for them.  

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I suggest getting a demo of each and see how they look. Try getting clothes and skins for each demo body and see if they are compatible. If you can't get a demo then don't buy the full version. 

However, I strongly suggest you get a separate body and head. Specifically get a Maitreya body for maximum choices in clothing. You can go to any clothing store and it will be compatible. With heads I'd choose from Lelutka, Catwa or Genus for maximum choices in skin and makeup. You may think choosing the larger brands will make you look like a clone of everyone else but there are many heads to choose from, a lot of body/head sliders to adjust, and thousands of skins, hair and clothing. You can make a unique avatar that is still compatible with the maximum amount of accessories.

.

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Option 1: Got demo? Yep, it's always good to try before you buy. They say it fits Maitreya sized clothes and shoes, so I suggest you pick up demos for clothes that looks appealing and try them out with the body.

Option 2: Got demo? Yes, ok, good. They say it can fit Slink sized shoes,  but no word on what clothes it will fit. Better pick up some clothing demos to see how they'll work with the demo body. 

Option 3: Got demo? No. No? L$1,250 is a huge chuck of change to gamble on the possibility of you even liking the head. Remember this mantra, "No demo, no buy." I would skip this one and look for other brands that do offer demos for their heads. Such stores are Catwa, Lelutka, Slink, Logo, Akeruka, and GA.EG.

 

 

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Simple age rule of thumb... If it says BOM ready/compatible it is new. If it talks only about appliers it is one generation back. If it says standard sizes then it is old enough to be considered out dated. A difficult oddity is Classic... which is likely old enough to be new again. This is because Classic is like BOM and used the same way.

This rule is not always going to work. Some things are a mix of Classic, Applier, and BOM. They are making a product for the transition to work with old, middle, and new.

You can buy the complete avatar... but... finding clothes for it is going to be a pain. You will be very limited. Go to some of the weekend events and look to see what clothes you like and notice which bodies they are compatible with. It usually says on the big promo picture. If not, get the demo (free) and look inside it to see which bodies are included. If you 3 candidates are listed, great. I suspect they won't be.

While it is more effort to learn how to wear and buy for mesh bodies and heads, you will have way more freedom to customize. While the whole-avatar may sound simpler, you are going to run into lots of walls. I think going that way you will soon regret it and end up going with a separate body and head. Plus buying the avatar removes very few of the problems and decisions. Those whole avatars work the same as the avatars with a separate body and head. You have to buy the right clothes, skins, makeup ... etc. to work with the combined head and body as you do with the separates.

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I bought the Kalhene body on an alt because it is Maitreya compatible, and it's great. I haven't come across any Maitreya clothing that doesn't work with it. I don't use the head so can't comment on that. But if you want to be able to buy new clothes at events and popular stores, Kalhene would be your best choice of those 3.

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2 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

This is a great comprehensive review.  Love Ryan's blog.

@SyndraJade If I were to make a decision, I would demo Kalhene over the other two options. Many people reported that it fits Maitreya clothing and shoes pretty well, but the waistband on pants and skirts will have a gap because the body's waist is made slimmer. Overall, it seems to be a good value for the features Kalhene offers.

The Star body in option 2 seems to be more trouble than it's worth.  Many clothes won't fit it and you would have to buy a separate product that will conform the body to fit the clothes for another $1000. 

The head in option 3 has no demo. I would not touch that one with a 10-foot pole.

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I'm going to have to second the Kalhene Anya body!

I purchased it after seeing favourable reviews from people like Ryan, and have been quite happy with it since. It fits most Maitreya clothing and shoes. There are some instances where I need to use alphas to make clothing fit, but that happens with all bodies. Maybe it's just my shape or me not editing the clothing to fit better if it has those permissions, but I do find that there is sometimes a gap between the body's shoulders and the top of straps attached to a top/dress, between the body's waist and waistband of pants/skirt, and between the foot and the shoe.

However, I have not tried the included head so I can't speak to its quality. I use the Anya body with a Lelutka head. The head should be BOM supported, so you would be able to wear BOM makeup with it, but not all creators offer that option. 

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Lots of great info and opinions! THANK YOU Chic, Rowan, Bree, Trophy, Nalates, Stephanie,Eddy and Simple! (Hope I got everyone,kinda tired) Sounds like every is voting for #1, the Kalhene. (With the possibility of a separate head) Anyone else before I drop these L$ tomorrow?

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If it is just about ease and not about money, I would also consider just buying a Maitreya body and any Bento from the big brands, like Lelutka or Catwa.

Even if you do not feel up to editing looks, you can just put them on out of the box, slap on the shape that comes included with the bento head and you have a fully working good looking avatar. Reason why I would go this route is that way you make sure you are fully supported on anything you buy. There's not a brand out there that does not make fashion or whatever that does not primarly support Maitreya. And same with Lelutka and Catwa. Since you already consider buying a seperate head I do not see the added value of going with a lesser known body anyway.

Reason I would go Maitreya is they have a very easy to use HUD, and also have op[tions like petite/flat if thats your preference that does not require you to buy a complete new body, just that option.

It might be a slight more hassle than buying a full ready AV on MP, but IMO it is so much worth the efford to always have everything specificly designed for your avatar's body parts.If you would like to go this way but feel a bit overwhelmed by all the options, feel free to contact me, would not mind at all to help you out shoppin. (im at an EU timezone though, just in case)

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Posted (edited)

Hello, I'm a bit surprised by what has been said before, I would recommend a Legacy body (Either Classic or Perky depending to your taste but Classic have much more support so far) and not a Maitreya body. Maitreya has been one of the first decent mesh body on SL so a lot people bought it which explain why it is still the most supported body, and if a lot of people still use Maitreya nowadays it is because they own a lot of clothes for it and don't want to lose them since some are not Legacy compatible. 

Since you don't own either so far I would recommend Legacy, in my opinion the body is better in every point than Maitreya (except for appliers), I used Maitreya around a year by now and then switched to Legacy months ago and I do not regret it. Now almost every active store rig clothes for Legacy (a bit less for Perky, but some does) The only reason I see to buy an outdated body like Maitreya is saving a bit of L$ since Maitreya is 2.750L$ and Legacy 5.000L$ but if you love dressing up or do shopping you will quickly feel limited with Maitreya (not by the clothing choice, but about what you can do with your body) so... it worth the 2.250L$ more  for Legacy. 

As for the head it's pretty simple, LeLutka have the market by now. Catwa was the way to go in the past, everyone recommended me either a Catwa and some a Genus when I started. Genus slowly took a bigger part on the head market and got taken down by a DMCA, they came back but LeLutka released they Evo head line and they moved on first place. At that time Catwa already was considered as kinda dead, their Pro head didn't worked well and was super expensive. People were either wearing Genus or LeLutka Evo. Now LeLutka released their Evo X head line and Legacy is speaking of a "Legacy X thing" which I guess is supposed to work with. In my opinion buying a Catwa head is throwing money down the drain.

All that to say that the way to go now is LeLutka Evo X and Legacy body. 

Kupra is also a good body if you want a very curvy shape and maybe more for a bimbo look (and if you can avoid looking at the feet lol) and more and more creators start to do for it too. 

Edited by xoClarisse
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I would be loathed to recommend TMP Legacy given all the negative points of the body and the brand. The Maitreya body might have been around a long time but the creator(s) didn't drag their heels bringing out a BoM version & adding new features and responded to demand for small and flat chest options by making it an add-on rather than go the TMP Legacy route of making it a new body and charging full price.

If someone is strapped for L$ getting a Maitreya compatible body is the best option if you want to be able to easily get dressed. I have a couple of alts using the free Lucy body they have had zero issue wearing Maitreya sizes out of Blueberry If you want more meat on your bones some bodies do it better with out compromising on the compatibility

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11 hours ago, xoClarisse said:

The only reason I see to buy an outdated body like Maitreya is saving a bit of L$ since Maitreya is 2.750L$ and Legacy 5.000L$

I don't understand why you would say Maitreya is outdated, it is well supported by the creator with updates including addons and it doesn't lack for any features that I am aware of. And it has a number of advantages over Legacy besides the price, like lower complexity, lower lag and no need to rely on media in order to use the HUD. I bought Legacy when it was half price and I love how it looks, but I don't see any advantage other than aesthetics. When I wear my Legacy body, my avatar complexity is so high I have to be really careful what else I wear with it or I will end up a jelly doll to everyone around me, and that just isn't acceptable.

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5 hours ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

I don't understand why you would say Maitreya is outdated, it is well supported by the creator with updates including addons and it doesn't lack for any features that I am aware of. And it has a number of advantages over Legacy besides the price, like lower complexity, lower lag and no need to rely on media in order to use the HUD. I bought Legacy when it was half price and I love how it looks, but I don't see any advantage other than aesthetics. When I wear my Legacy body, my avatar complexity is so high I have to be really careful what else I wear with it or I will end up a jelly doll to everyone around me, and that just isn't acceptable.

 

"Jelly Doll"?

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Posted (edited)

I just want to return to this point:

23 hours ago, SyndraJade said:

Anyone else before I drop these L$ tomorrow?

Especially in conjunction with this point:

On 6/3/2021 at 1:35 AM, SyndraJade said:

I don't understand Avatars or what it takes to make them

Hopefully, @SyndraJade, you have not yet dropped those L$, because I will strongly echo what Chic, Bree, Rowan, TrophySpouse, Nalates, and Eddy all said: DEMO FIRST.

Never, on anyone else's recommendation, go out and make a major purchase without first trying the free demo for yourself. (And if there's no demo then it's good to ask yourself why that might be.)

You have said that you don't understand avatars or how they work in SL, but regardless of whether you go for the full Kalhene head and body combination, or Maitreya/Catwa or Legacy/Lelutka, or whatever else... you will still have to learn how that specific head and body works. So pick up demos of all the suggested options, pick up some demo clothing for them, pick up some demo skins (this should all be demos) and try everything together to see how they work together before you spend any money.

Even if you're happy to wear everything out of the box, using the included Kalhene skins and other included options, it's a good idea to try it out free first of all. A myriad of small things that someone else is fine with might end up being deal-breakers for you. For example: if you read the reviews for Kalhene you can see that one person says the HUD is too small for them, so if you have vision difficulties that might be your deal-breaker, or it may be an annoyance that you don't want to have to deal with every time you use it. Checking out the demo would show you whether the HUD size is okay for you before you've spent L$1,795.

It's not just the head and body and HUD(s) that you need to understand. It helps to understand how things like BoM work, because - even with a body and head like Kalhene, which has a nice simple HUD - if you want to use BoM to customise your avatar you have to understand how it works.

There's a wealth of tutorials and guides available out there for everyone wanting to customise a Second Life avatar, and for every type of learner, whether they prefer an informal chatty video guide that they can follow in real time, or a detailed blog post with screenshots that they can sit down and work through. As a CSR for a major mesh head brand in SL, I have worked with far too many people who have spent a lot of money buying lots of different full priced heads and bodies without trying demos, before they finally landed on the combination they liked best.

Edited by Skell Dagger
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22 hours ago, xoClarisse said:

At that time Catwa already was considered as kinda dead, their Pro head didn't worked well and was super expensive.

Could you please elaborate on what, exactly, didn't "work well" on the HDPRO head(s) that you demo'd?

If you have come across a specific bug or issue (unlikely, given all of the testing that we did, but we couldn't possibly test it against every single body, for example) then that's something I can feed back to Catwa for a possible bugfix.

If, however, it was just a matter of your personal preference, then that has nothing do with the head "not working" and everything to do with it not being the head you preferred.

Edited by Skell Dagger
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16 hours ago, Orwar said:

   Maitreya vs. Legacy.

   Okay. 

   Which body is the more resource intensive to render (i.e. 'laggy')? Legacy.

   Which body requires you to use media to interact with the HUD? Legacy.

   Which body requires its HUD to interact via their internal servers so that in the event of them having issues, your body's HUD stops working? Legacy.

   Which body is made by a creator whose business practices have been the root of much outrage due to its dodginess? Legacy. 

   Which body requires you to buy a whole new body if you want a different type of bosom or base shape rather than using addons, at full the full price of a different body? Legacy.

   The list goes on, but I think we have a pretty clear winner to be honest. Legacy - probably the worst body on the grid, next to the creator's previous body, TMP. 

Which body is the more resource intensive to render (i.e. 'laggy')? Legacy.

-> People doesn't have to limit themselves because of your computer from the last decade.

Which body requires you to use media to interact with the HUD? Legacy.

-> Only when you change body skin color (which nobody does since everyone use a separate skin BOM ?)  or nails color. I don't see in what it cause an issue though.

Which body requires its HUD to interact via their internal servers so that in the event of them having issues, your body's HUD stops working? Legacy.

-> "if" "if", never had issues so far, but yes in theory it is true.

Which body is made by a creator whose business practices have been the root of much outrage due to its dodginess? Legacy. 

-> I can understand if you bought the classic TMP body, what they did is indeed not something to do. Though the author didn't bought it at that time. The "new" Legacy body is out since what 2 years now ? And no similar issues so far, it would be highly surprising if they do it twice. 

Which body requires you to buy a whole new body if you want a different type of bosom or base shape rather than using addons, at full the full price of a different body? Legacy.

True, but they also OFFER the petite version in the Perky body, when you have to buy it for Maitreya.

-----------------------------------

I also can make a list.

Which body doesn't let you play with the sliders to your taste without having annoying issues ? (shoulders glitches, thighs getting "cut" while sitting, "triangle hips" with a lot of clothes if you dare putting a bit of meat on your legs.) Maitreya.

Which body doesn't offer good body details compared to Legacy ? Maitreya.

Which body doesn't have it feet resizable ? Maitreya. (Well they do, but if you do they won't fit your shoes anymore lol. So basically, if you want to keep realistic body proportions you will have to make your size according to the feet you can't resize.) 

Which body doesn't make a difference between auto-alphas from clothes and manual alphas ? Causing issues when using saved outfits while switching body copies (Because yes, feet and hands aren't separate either.) Maitreya.

Which body offer the less alpha spots on it hud ? Maitreya. 

And seeing platforms heels on Maitreya is hilarious, they look SO big compared to the legs or even to the whole body, since the feet can't be resized.

11 hours ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

I don't understand why you would say Maitreya is outdated, it is well supported by the creator with updates including addons and it doesn't lack for any features that I am aware of. And it has a number of advantages over Legacy besides the price, like lower complexity, lower lag and no need to rely on media in order to use the HUD. I bought Legacy when it was half price and I love how it looks, but I don't see any advantage other than aesthetics. When I wear my Legacy body, my avatar complexity is so high I have to be really careful what else I wear with it or I will end up a jelly doll to everyone around me, and that just isn't acceptable.

Because it is. 

As for Legacy I just checked and itself it is 14.044 complexity. With most of my outfits I am under 100k complexity, even 75k and I'm wearing more than 20 attachements. Maybe you should buy your clothes and accessories at different places if they make your complexity raise as much as you say. Also, if someone have their complexity limit set below 100k or even 75k, trust me, you're not the problem. 

---------------------------

That said, you're welcome to send me an IM SyndraJade, I have both bodies so I can show them to you and show you these points I listed upper. I'd also recommend you to try demos first, even make/find a shape and a skin you like before buying any body of your choice to be sure of your choice. I hope you'll find something who suit your needs !

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

Could you please elaborate on what, exactly, didn't "work well" on the HDPRO head(s) that you demo'd?

If you have come across a specific bug or issue (unlikely, given all of the testing that we did, but we couldn't possibly test it against every single body, for example) then that's something I can feed back to Catwa for a possible bugfix.

If, however, it was just a matter of your personal preference, then that has nothing do with the head "not working" and everything to do with it not being the head you preferred.

To clarify I didn't wanted to say that the head wasn't working in itself. I was speaking of the sales/number of people wearing it. I've never seen someone wearing these new HDPRO heads even since they gave one for free. Every Catwa head I see is the Catya one and that's it. All new heads makeup at recent events are made/optimized for LeLutka Evo (X).

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19 minutes ago, xoClarisse said:

I was speaking of the sales

Interesting.

I work for Catwa and even I don't know her sales figures! Where do you get them from? I do know roughly how many copies of the HDPRO Queen head were picked up (and no, I'm not going to say here how many, but I think people might be very very surprised indeed by exactly how many). I also know how many people who are new to Catwa that we have been helping in the support group because they picked up that head.

20 minutes ago, xoClarisse said:

I've never seen someone wearing these new HDPRO heads even since they gave one for free. Every Catwa head I see is the Catya one and that's it.

You scan every single person around you, to see what head they are wearing? That Catya is very popular is obvious: it was Catwa's first Bento head and a lot of people still love it. It has received all the same updates as her other Bento heads, up to the final one released before the HDPRO range came out. There are 34 Catwa Bento and HDPRO heads, 19 Frames heads, and 4 Basic heads, and plenty of people wearing them. We still help people who adore and won't change from their older, non-Bento heads.

24 minutes ago, xoClarisse said:

All new heads makeup at recent events are made/optimized for LeLutka Evo (X).

I shop a lot and I see HDPRO stuff all the time. Perhaps you are looking for EVO and EVO X and only see those? (In the same vein, I look for Catwa and HDPRO and I find a lot of it.)

Anyway, all that is an aside to the main theme of this post. I asked mainly because I was concerned that you may have discovered some bug or issue. I'm glad to hear that it was simply a matter of opinion instead.

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