We have the power to make SL a "big thing" again (really) and tip the ongoing narrative, let's do this! c= let's do our part (for our sake)

[Silent Mistwalker]

57 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Actually, Sims 5 is rumoured to be announced at this years E3 subject of course to Pandemic disruptions. EA's higher ups have already been talking about Sims 5 stating it is in development and have even mentioned it will be multiplayer and have a creator marketplace that allows people to earn real cash. How far that multiplayer goes is still unknown and of course whether EA will deliver. The Sims 5: EA confirms the game will feature multiplayer (realsport101.com)

If it is open world and less cartoony like some are hoping it will be a serious contender as a virtual social world should they get the multiplayer aspect right. Even if it isn't less cartoony but open world or semi open world via world teleport, with near 200-250 million players, multiplayer, income from creator marketplace etc it stands to poach quite a few people from other VW platforms.

Thanks. I hadn't gone looking just yet to confirm that 5 is supposed to be MMO. I believe they are going for the single/multi player this time around instead of MMO only like TSO was. 

Don't look for 5 to be less cartoony than 4. They may tone it down a little but it will still be aimed at the usual teenaged gamers was the last I'd heard.

There's another game like the Sims that is in development called Paralives that just might be giving EA/Maxis a run for their money. if/when they ever go MMO. So maybe EA/Maxis will mind their p's and q's better from now on and LL needs to start dotting i's and crossing t's. If EA/Maxis will actually actively listen to their customers, there's nothing stopping LL from doing the same, except LL.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker

[Finite]

9 hours ago, ChinRey said:

I assume you meant "can't afford $1200USD"

I think the graphics quality/performance ratio is one of the three main factors why virtual worlds - not only SL - fail to reach a wider market. There's always a compromise there of course but I do believe SL is one of the very few that get the first part of that equation right. A cartoonish environment like Decentraland and Facebook's virtual world (whatever they call it this week) are too simplistic for most people today but the extremely high visuals most recent virtual worlds aim for is overkill.

Unfortunately SL doesn't get the second part right, there's way too much computing power and bandwdth wasted. Graphics quality at about the same level as SL's Ultra with performance at the same level as Low or Low+, that would probably be the optimal balance. It should be perfectly possible to achieve but it would require some serious upgrades both to SL's software and its content so I don't think it's realistic.

It depends on the viewer. SL runs pretty smoothly at high resolution in Blackdragon. However it sacrifices a lot of the user friendly UI options that viewers such as Firestorm offers. I can certainly shop and explore in Blackdragon, but it wouldn't be my preferred option say for building. Or being in a crowded sim where I actually want to see what other avies are wearing. Blackdragon has an avie cap and you have to individually right click and fully render avies that aren't your friends. I prefer building in Firestorm, which I can generally do in ultra-mode as well since I almost exclusively build on my property which is low pop and lag. I find the visual capabilities of SL pretty on point.  

Exploration in Blackdragon on ultra

 

Firestorm on ultra: Not an exploration. Just me messing around one of my building platforms.

I find having depth of field on helps the performances for both quite a bit.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Finite

[lucagrabacr]

SL furry content on social media sites like Twitter are some of the most engaged SL content on those sites, mainly because the nature of us furries c= so if you're a furry or furry creator of any kind don't be shy to post and spread words of your wonderful stuff, people love them! ♥

[cunomar]

I will simply ask - who is SL aimed at , what target audience ?

I don't even know what the all encompassing title of  builders , scripters , coders , digital artists , might be but i do know that for each one of them there are 10 million normal people who really dont give a damn how and why they can do whatever in GTA or Prince of Persia , Its just fun to do it .

Based solely on my SL experience because i have no other point of reference, computer geeks have nothing but contempt for normal people and sooner or later the feeling is reciprocal which leads to profiles like this one i copied and stole from someone 9 or 10 years into their SL .

"SL's "rules of the game" ... I finally understand them ...

Rule #1:  Delude others
Rule #2:  Lie not to get bored
Rule #3:  Mess others up if #2 isn't fun enough
Rule #4:  Rejoice in foolishness and pain others
Rule #5:  Give any promise though you know you will never ever keep them
Rule #6:  Make someone trust you much so #4 is much more fun
Rule #7:  I WILL NEVER EVER LOVE THESE RULES  ....

BUT THEY WILL ALWAYS BE RECALLED TO MY MIND !  THANK'S FOR THAT !!"

Facebook has 2.85 billion users most of whom occupy their minds by scrolling constantly through stuff that won't actually make it into their memory . I'm so normal i don't have facebook so i do the SL equivalent which is to read profiles i have little or no interest in .

Had GTA arrived on a platform that demanded the user spend 3 weeks building an avatar on par with every other character in the game it would have been trashed by critics and forgotten forever within a week .

If you want people to see/buy your creations then you have to attract normal people to whom SL is little more than a virtual social platform .

Would i recommend SL to anyone - no absolutely not .

 

[Maryanne Solo]

15 hours ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

When I see "influencers" I think of those people who sometimes came into our bar and offer to promote it on their SM for free booze. We tell them we don't so SM (shocking, insn't it?) and they want a beer --- gotta pay for it.

"Influencers" <-> Influenzas = same $hift basically 😂🥳😆

[Ceka Cianci]

They just need a good ole fashioned sex scandal and the grid will fill up super fast..

Just like the good ole days.. hehehehe

[Arielle Popstar]

On 5/30/2021 at 12:41 PM, lucagrabacr said:

We need to be proactive in countering the false narrative out there, Second Life has enough active userbase and concurrent users, that if even only a portion of that is committed to a collective counter-campaign against falsehoods about SL, it would make a lot of difference in how SL is perceived within the tech industry and media

I have promoted S/L to quite a few IMVU friends over the years and the predominant objection I hear is that S/L is too expensive. That is funny coming from an IMVU person being that you get very little there for free whereas S/L has quite a large freebie market and plenty of community spaces to hang out in and even set Home on. I spent probably the first 3-4 years in S/L without buying Lindens and only using freebie items and a few items I bought from using L$ picked up from the money trees.

The other main objection I hear is the steep learning curve but I was reflecting on that this morning and realizing that the 90% of that involves inventory and dressing as that is just a mess even for people who been around a long time. It has become increasingly problematic with the different head and body mesh creators as each has their own version of body parts and huds that needs an in depth user manual to understand the various intricacies.

I don't know how it works for other social platforms but IMVU at least is quite a bit easier to sort out dressing up though of course there isn't the options available like there is in S/L. Dressing in IMVU is so much easier because it has a graphical interface for the inventory which makes looking for items quite a bit simpler. And if one makes a mistake then there is the back button that allow one to step back several changes. This alone would be easy to put into the viewers and makes for a much less frustrating experience especially for a noobie. No doubt there will be some handwaving and teeth gnashing over these ideas like usual but they really are not that hard to institute and will make the initial experience quite a bit easier for new people and might even result in some coming back.

Another aspect is being a little more upfront with where the sex clubs are because believe it or not, that is what attracts quite a few too. S/L tries to downplay it but I'd be very curious how many new people come for that specific purpose. We got them so may as well flaunt them.

[Finite]

12 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Another aspect is being a little more upfront with where the sex clubs are because believe it or not, that is what attracts quite a few too. S/L tries to downplay it but I'd be very curious how many new people come for that specific purpose. We got them so may as well flaunt them.

I think sex clubs are a double-edged sword. Yes they attract a lot of people but they also turn a lot of people off as well. I've been around long enough to where I'm pretty much indifferent to the "darker" sides of SL. But even I when going to events which is where I get most of my joy out of SL these days get a bit disturbed by the handful of avies hanging around at the landing areas having a competition (I guess?) of who can be the shortest, youngest, most child-like looking avie without crossing the line while wearing the least amount of clothing. Do I really want to tell people I play this game? 

I think the main thing holding SL back is the fact people can't stream it.  Also, it's not really much of a "game". It's more of a virtual canvas.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Finite

[Extrude Ragu]

Just now, Finite said:

I think the main thing holding SL back is the fact people can't stream it.

Be careful what you wish for

The reason we can't stream SecondLife on Twitch is because we can do whatever we want in it. There's no game mechanics it is just an open platform that people use how they like.

To aim to make SecondLife streamable, is to fundamentally change what SecondLife is and how it is governed.

[Finite]

6 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

Be careful what you wish for

The reason we can't stream SecondLife on Twitch is because we can do whatever we want in it. There's no game mechanics it is just an open platform that people use how they like.

To aim to make SecondLife streamable, is to fundamentally change what SecondLife is and how it is governed.

Oh Im not wishing it at all. I'm just saying that's a large swath a players that won't play for that reason. Also, I think the main reason twitch bans is because of the likely instances of stream snipers spawning (venus) poofers while you're trying to stream live.

edit: Apparently word that rhymes with venus is blanked out. Replaced.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Finite

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Finite said:

I think sex clubs are a double-edged sword. Yes they attract a lot of people but they also turn a lot of people off as well. I've been around long enough to where I'm pretty much indifferent to the "darker" sides of SL. I think the main thing holding SL back is the fact people can't stream it.  Also, it's not really much of a "game". It's more of a virtual canvas.

I agree with the double edged thing but even so, they could have a seperate category which one accesses by having to verify by clicking they are 18+. That way it is not so "in your face" but still there to pique curiosity for those so inclined.

Well it can be a game and I have visited regions that were setup that way. Sometimes I think the "social" aspect is promoted a bit too much because in my own opinion, that is a lot less than it used to be. I have seen plenty of clubs where there is 20-30 avatars but not one thing said in chat for over an hour. Have seen a number of people leave in disgust after pointing out there wasn't a lot of socializing going on.

 

[Lyssa Greymoon]

12 minutes ago, Finite said:

Oh Im not wishing it at all. I'm just saying that's a large swath a players that won't play for that reason. Also, I think the main reason twitch bans is because of the likely instances of stream snipers spawning (venus) poofers while you're trying to stream live.

edit: Apparently word that rhymes with venus is blanked out. Replaced.

You can stream SL on YouTube.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Lyssa Greymoon

[Finite]

2 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

You can stream it on YouTube.

Yes but I think they have like a 3 strike rule or something and your banned regardless of if it was your own doing or not. So it's pretty risky live streaming SL.

[Silent Mistwalker]

5 hours ago, cunomar said:

I will simply ask - who is SL aimed at , what target audience ?

I don't even know what the all encompassing title of  builders , scripters , coders , digital artists , might be but i do know that for each one of them there are 10 million normal people who really dont give a damn how and why they can do whatever in GTA or Prince of Persia , Its just fun to do it .

Based solely on my SL experience because i have no other point of reference, computer geeks have nothing but contempt for normal people and sooner or later the feeling is reciprocal which leads to profiles like this one i copied and stole from someone 9 or 10 years into their SL .

"SL's "rules of the game" ... I finally understand them ...

Rule #1:  Delude others
Rule #2:  Lie not to get bored
Rule #3:  Mess others up if #2 isn't fun enough
Rule #4:  Rejoice in foolishness and pain others
Rule #5:  Give any promise though you know you will never ever keep them
Rule #6:  Make someone trust you much so #4 is much more fun
Rule #7:  I WILL NEVER EVER LOVE THESE RULES  ....

BUT THEY WILL ALWAYS BE RECALLED TO MY MIND !  THANK'S FOR THAT !!"

Facebook has 2.85 billion users most of whom occupy their minds by scrolling constantly through stuff that won't actually make it into their memory . I'm so normal i don't have facebook so i do the SL equivalent which is to read profiles i have little or no interest in .

Had GTA arrived on a platform that demanded the user spend 3 weeks building an avatar on par with every other character in the game it would have been trashed by critics and forgotten forever within a week .

If you want people to see/buy your creations then you have to attract normal people to whom SL is little more than a virtual social platform .

Would i recommend SL to anyone - no absolutely not .

 

 

Define normal.

[Rufferta]

Random comments.

Improving the newcomer experience. I was at an Infohub yesterday - it was in a courtyard in an impressive but otherwise empty building complex. There were the usual 'get Lindens/Information' kiosks but there was another kiosk directing newcomers to the '2009 Avi Choice Awards site', another kiosk 'Hot Spots in Second Life' that was broken, and one directed to what looked like Torley's videos but which sent you to something entirely different. There was a nice castle build on one side with cannons that could shoot cannonballs down into the Courtyard ("Take that! Welcome to Second Life!") If you could figure your way out of the Infohub there was a nice beach area nearby, but otherwise not much of interest. If I ran Second Life I would have put up clear signage to the beach and given everyone a driveable car so they could explore the roads, or a boat so they could sail along the coast for a bit.

I recently read Mona Eberhardt's "Interpreting SL's 2020 Metrics" and watched the imbedded parts of Torulf Jenstrom's presentation on monetizing in-app-purchases for game makers, and I concluded that Second Life is more of a landlord than a game operator.

New Users: I have been impressed by how educators are using virtual reality as a learning tool and hope Linden Lab will continue to offer educator discounts. Second Life is also a great resource for those of us who are unable to travel in RL, but most of my contemporaries don't have computers that can access it.

Newcomer experience: One of the things I enjoy in Minecraft is building things - it would be nice if the new user experience in Second Life had some way of letting newcomers build a few things (Maybe it does, I haven't rolled up a new avatar since MyLastAlt).

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Rufferta
Added link, corrected spelling mistakes

[Senet Wylder]

I started today with ... "Failed to find body part named SENET ERIN MAITREYA YS&YS 2.5 in the database."

I was wearing it yesterday. Indeed, 10 hours ago. Now just MIA

How many stories are there about IMs that do not arrive until the next log in? Chat messages that never get to chat? Chat that is not sent at the right time or out of order (which to my mind, should never be able to happen).

Random missing items are only the part, YOU"VE BEEN LOGGED OUT OF SECOND LIFE .... randomly. How many years have these things been happening and nothing appreciable is done. 

As previously mentioned, SANSAR was an attempt to move forward technologically. Some loons in LL though there might be people flocking to it but then the 'players' found limited looks loss of all they built up and created, nothing transferred over and seemingly (I don't know but wouldn't be surprised) no incentives were given to creators come over and build up their stores. Shockingly, LL was self aware enough not to force the population to move.

SANSAR was ill fated because LL though people would just jump ship and come over because 'the tech'.

How many people do you know that would move to another city leaving everything (and I mean every last thing) in their, now former, house behind? They would have to start completely from scratch. And doing this with absolutely no incentives but because the Mayor(singular) of both cities (Linden Labs) wants to 'move forward.'

Eventually, LL will simply stop updating Second Life and let it fade because the technology becomes too old to maintain. If they were true innovators, they would know this and SANSAR would be built up to be ready for people to come and start anew in something that has a good base of customization, incentives for builders and a whole new grin to build up and explore.

[Sid Nagy]

Just open the marketplace, klick most popular products, while adult enabled, and you see why SL is still there despite of all the faults and shortcomings (even after all these years) and it also gives a clue why almost nobody from the SL audience felt the need to go to Sansar.

[Silent Mistwalker]

I've often wondered how many people went out and bought VR headsets just for the purpose of using Sansar. Did they feel cheated that they had spent money they couldn't really afford on a new product (VR headsets) that really (IMO) wasn't ready for public use yet?

Just making the point that not all of us could afford a VR headset at the time so we didn't go because we couldn't afford to buy a headset. LL jumped on that bandwagon way too soon.

[Sid Nagy]

The other day I saw an article about a company coming to the market with a 3D laptop, that doesn't need goggles.
That might be a huge step in the right direction for 3D if that turns out to be a success.

If I recall right it was Acer that announced one.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Sid Nagy

[Rowan Amore]

25 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

The other day I saw an article about a company coming to the market with a 3D laptop, that doesn't need goggles.
That might be a huge step in the right direction for 3D if that turns out to be a success.

If I recall right it was Acer that announced one.

I saw that, too.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/acer-e2-80-99s-new-spatiallabs-tech-brings-3d-content-to-laptop-screens/ar-AAKrEVe?ocid=uxbndlbing

[PixelBerry]

I have never felt that I could share my Second life with my friends or family, because  to be honest it is not family friendly at all, even with the adult, mature or pg regions, you can still find people walking around with their tiddies and *****s out. There are a lot of issues within Second life that needs to be solved, I have an idea that could potentially solve the mature items being out in pg areas, just like how you check modify, transfer and copy. What if you could check adult, mature and pg on objects and layers or anything that you can wear? Might be a stupid idea, but why not share it anyhow. But that is just one of many issues Second life has.

There are some youtube videos of normies visiting Second life, and their first impressions are usually wack, and usually paints Second life into this virtual world that is only about weirdos and sex, making it hard for me and others to share the wonderful world of Second life.

Linden labs themselves don't really or haven't tried hard to advertise Second life well, first time in years I feel like they are trying something new with the site layout, but it is unfinished or maybe it is finished? I don't know.

I feel like Second life needs to have it's reputation changed before anyone really can advertise it well, and I don't know how people can do that.

I do want more people to join our world, even after all these years, even if Second life is old and not robust, Second life is still the only world of it's kind, there's nothing that can replace it for me, at least not currently, I have been here since 2007, and I'm not quitting before it's literally dead.

Edited June 1, 2021 by PixelBerry

[animats]

"I feel quite strongly that more hardware is not a viable path forward. In my experience a significant percentage of participants in SL do so on a shoestring RL budget. Their computers / graphics cards hobble along at the lowest of settings (Atmospheric shaders, longer draw distances, etc. are use selectively and cautiously if at all), their internet connections are slow, even intermittent, they have free accounts and what money they have in SL comes from some kind of job there. In short expecting these people and the many others who stretched their RL budgets for somewhat better hardware for a better SL to spend money on fancy sensors and trackers is naive at best." - Comment on Philip Rosedale speech in 2014.

This is a good point. Since then, it's become worse. Graphics price/performance has decreased in recent years. The average Steam user has an NVidia 1060, which is a pretty good graphics card. Original retail price, in 2016, was $249. Today, it costs $549, used. NVidia's current entry level video card costs around US$330. The reasons for this include the move to thin laptops with cooling problems, the backlog at TSMC,  the cryptocurrency mining community buying up a big fraction of graphics cards, 5nm fabs costing $20 billion each, and NVidia discovering that gamers would pay over US$1000 for a GPU card.

Most people are using laptops, and they have to take whatever GPU the laptop manufacturer gives them. Unless you buy a "gamer laptop", something that starts around US$1350, you get a rather modest GPU. Compare that with typical US$200-$500 laptops.

The effect is that the average consumer PC just does not have enough graphics power to run SL well.

So, the mass-market virtual worlds look rather cartoony at the moment. See Facebook Horizons, Roblox, Minecraft, etc.

[PixelBerry]

I do wonder, is Second life fixable?

If someone had the passion for Second life, the money and what not, if someone hired a team of coders, would Second life be fixable? Or is it impossible because of the "ancient" and messy coding?

[Rowan Amore]

4 minutes ago, animats said:

"I feel quite strongly that more hardware is not a viable path forward. In my experience a significant percentage of participants in SL do so on a shoestring RL budget. Their computers / graphics cards hobble along at the lowest of settings (Atmospheric shaders, longer draw distances, etc. are use selectively and cautiously if at all), their internet connections are slow, even intermittent, they have free accounts and what money they have in SL comes from some kind of job there. In short expecting these people and the many others who stretched their RL budgets for somewhat better hardware for a better SL to spend money on fancy sensors and trackers is naive at best." - Comment on Philip Rosedale speech in 2014.

This is a good point. Since then, it's become worse. Graphics price/performance has decreased in recent years. The average Steam user has an NVidia 1060, which is a pretty good graphics card. Original retail price, in 2016, was $249. Today, it costs $549, used. NVidia's current entry level video card costs around US$330. The reasons for this include the move to thin laptops with cooling problems, the backlog at TSMC,  the cryptocurrency mining community buying up a big fraction of graphics cards, 5nm fabs costing $20 billion each, and NVidia discovering that gamers would pay over US$1000 for a GPU card.

Most people are using laptops, and they have to take whatever GPU the laptop manufacturer gives them. Unless you buy a "gamer laptop", something that starts around US$1350, you get a rather modest GPU. Compare that with typical US$200-$500 laptops.

The effect is that the average consumer PC just does not have enough graphics power to run SL well.

So, the mass-market virtual worlds look rather cartoony at the moment. See Facebook Horizons, Roblox, Minecraft, etc.

Yet they toss out features that are half baked, causing even those with adequate graphics cards to stumble.  Yeah, EEP.  So it's not us with inferior equipment but LL.with an inferior rollout.  Anyone starting SL during that time, probably said to heck with it and never returned.

[animats]

12 minutes ago, PixelBerry said:

I do wonder, is Second life fixable?

If someone had the passion for Second life, the money and what not, if someone hired a team of coders, would Second life be fixable? Or is it impossible because of the "ancient" and messy coding?

Yes, it's fixable.