We have the power to make SL a "big thing" again (really) and tip the ongoing narrative, let's do this! c= let's do our part (for our sake)

[Quistess Alpha]

Maybe something like CTS wardrobe, but for the rest of the inventory? I know 3rd party scripted systems aren't the best, because then you get 10 different incompatible versions, but still. there are probably things that can be done, coming up with specific details and an implementation outline are indeed hard. We have 'settings' type inventory items for EEP things. perhaps we could have 'inventory style' inventory objects that define how some as-of-yet non-existent supplemental system parses and tags the inventory. Just an idle thought.

[Coffee Pancake]

5 minutes ago, Quistessa said:

Maybe something like CTS wardrobe, but for the rest of the inventory? 

I've sunk a lot of time into exploring that lately, there are some things it does well if the user keeps up with it.

It requires a substantial amount of manual tagging to do anything, and while it will scrape SLM data, tags are the heart of the system and that is entirely manual. It depends on the user to not only add everything they buy in item by item, set up folders, but be consistent in how they do it over the long term. 

It's time consuming, fiddly and error prone in all the worst ways. Very easy to get started, and then realize you've been doing it wrong since the start and have to edit everything over and over. I very much doubt I would have uncovered half the functionality without @Buttacwup Float's essential series of YT tutorials.

I have found the end result to be useful, and it's certainly an aid to inventory management, but it's far from perfect and offers no where near the level of accessibility or usability that would be required in an actual SL viewer.

 

[Jaylinbridges]

12 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Ahhh .. the myth that organizing your inventory allows you to locate the stuff you have.

Spend hours and hours sorting and ordering it all ... and all you're actually doing is refreshing your memory about what you own. Didn't remember it the last time, this time wont be any different .. only now it's just more densely and complexly sorted.

I disagree.  If some designer decided to call my GF's see-thru sexy lingerie, Joe's Carwash, and she didn't remember that name because she hadn't worn it since 2007, then putting Joe's Carwash in the Lingerie folder under Clothing would help her find it. And of course BOM now let's her wear it.

Here's what I am dealing with:

20,685 Folders in Main Inventory, and when I started she had 30,000 folders, most of them single outfits.

Objects started with no folders or subfolders, just 20,000 objects. I am down to about 5000 objects not in subfolders now, but this still takes forever.

Lost and Found is only 1,430 objects, no folders yet.  It takes 1 min for her to log on now, down from 2 mins.  I been working on her inventory for two years now, when I have the time.

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[cunomar]

8 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

M'kay. Now, unless you've explicitly enabled the option to do so, you cannot see the local chat of a user you have decided to Block/Mute. They appear as a nondescript gray form? So. What.

You blocked/muted. You cannot see their chat unless you specifically opt to see it and there's pretty much not a thing visually they can do to mess with you.

Nothing more needs to be done.

It couldn't IM me thats all block achieved i could still see the avatar grey silhouette and its open chat also in grey . I asked plenty of building sims for 18 years experts why and nobody knew .

But regardless of my personal experience which no longer matters , think on the "self imposed consequences" and how it might effect SL .

RL the world is a lonely place for morons who have no respect for anyone or anything . In SL its possibly the most prominant game because those who enjoy nothing more than pissing people off thrive unchecked . When one victim quits they call it a score and move on to the next .

LL cannot govern social interaction but a two way block is self governing , why hang in a place where you can't see anybody because your universally disliked , sooner or later your going to be forced to rethink your game which in the long term can only be good for SL .

Edited June 11, 2021 by cunomar

[Wulfie Reanimator]

49 minutes ago, cunomar said:

It couldn't IM me thats all block achieved i could still see the avatar grey silhouette and its open chat also in grey . I asked plenty of building sims for 18 years experts why and nobody knew .

But regardless of my personal experience which no longer matters , think on the "self imposed consequences" and how it might effect SL .

RL the world is a lonely place for morons who have no respect for anyone or anything . In SL its possibly the most prominant game because those who enjoy nothing more than pissing people off thrive unchecked . When one victim quits they call it a score and move on to the next .

LL cannot govern social interaction but a two way block is self governing , why hang in a place where you can't see anybody because your universally disliked , sooner or later your going to be forced to rethink your game which in the long term can only be good for SL .

"Show muted chat" is a viewer setting that you should turn off.

Avatars can also be derendered entirely if you right-click their nametag, regardless of if you mute them first. You can derender avatars and still hear chat from them if you like.

And if you are truly universally disliked, you'll find that you won't have access to places because people still have the ability to ban you. There's no "two-way block" in real life either (short of a legal restraining order), if you are being harassed by another person in the same location as you, you won't be able to become invisible and force them to shut up, instead you'd have to physically leave yourself (similar to teleporting or logging off in SL) or call the police (moderators/staff) to come deal with the situation.

SL communities are literally self-governing because we do have the tools to do so.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Solar Legion]

1 hour ago, cunomar said:

It couldn't IM me thats all block achieved i could still see the avatar grey silhouette and its open chat also in grey . I asked plenty of building sims for 18 years experts why and nobody knew .

But regardless of my personal experience which no longer matters , think on the "self imposed consequences" and how it might effect SL .

RL the world is a lonely place for morons who have no respect for anyone or anything . In SL its possibly the most prominant game because those who enjoy nothing more than pissing people off thrive unchecked . When one victim quits they call it a score and move on to the next .

LL cannot govern social interaction but a two way block is self governing , why hang in a place where you can't see anybody because your universally disliked , sooner or later your going to be forced to rethink your game which in the long term can only be good for SL .

That's nice. You have Show Muted Chat turned on. Shut it off and stop complaining.

Grayed out avatar? That is functioning as intended - the primary function of Block/Mute is to hide local chat (unless you've turned on Show Muted Chat) and to prevent you from seeing any sort of details concerning the now Blocked/Muted Avatar - meaning they can no longer use any aspect of their appearance to get at you.

Everything beyond that is on you (in general at this point).

A "normal" person will take the hint and move on. Some might persist for a bit, until it gets through to them that you've chosen to Block them. Griefers and such? That depends on how determined they are to get a reaction out of you and there is nothing (outside of continuing to Block/Mute and Report Abuse) you can do at that point.

Just about every service out there has their variations on these problems. Such is life.

[cunomar]

Ah i see , it was all my fault because i don't enjoy the blissful arrogance born of a lifetime pressing buttons .

You don't need luck to make things more user friendly for newbies - you need a miracle 😆

[Bree Giffen]

It seems that SL is pretty bad for newbies. I just saw a video of someone who had a terrible time. This was uploaded a few days ago.

 

[Solar Legion]

13 minutes ago, cunomar said:

Ah i see , it was all my fault because i don't enjoy the blissful arrogance born of a lifetime pressing buttons .

You don't need luck to make things more user friendly for newbies - you need a miracle 😆

You had a specific setting enabled (be it accidentally or purposely) which, when disabled, would have hidden the chat of the person you'd Blocked/Muted.

Nothing "arrogant" in pointing that out nor in pointing out how the tools function nor indeed in pointing out that this is normal for many services.

[Solar Legion]

Unless they have seriously pared down the New User areas and instructions there is no way that someone should be unable to understand how to remove individual items from their Avatar. If they have pared it down that much, it needs to change ASAP.

They also need to ensure that their Wiki is kept up to date and make it very apparent that Orientation is only meant to cover basics - that there is much they'll have to actually read and still more they'll need to experience first hand.

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

20 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

It seems that SL is pretty bad for newbies. I just saw a video of someone who had a terrible time.

I agree, it was appalling that he got thrown out of most of the places for being new, it strikes me that places implementing minimum age levels shouldn't be allowed to advertise themselves in areas where newcomers will be arriving.

I thought he did pretty well with moving around and learning the menus, suggesting SL isn't such a bad interface as it's been made out to be. 

[rasterscan]

Today it took a full minute for my mp purchase to arrive in my inv. Then when I rezzed a box it took over 30 seconds to appear inworld. I logged off.

Edited June 11, 2021 by rasterscan

[Coffee Pancake]

18 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

It seems that SL is pretty bad for newbies. I just saw a video of someone who had a terrible time. This was uploaded a few days ago.

 

He gets kicked and ejected  over and over again.

OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

From places in the destination guide.

This is not acceptable. The entire point of the guide is to help new users explore.

Listing in the destination guide must come with the condition that the location does not kick new accounts on entry.

This video could have turned out so differently .. but now it's a permanent horrifying window onto a weird little world that hates new users. 

@Strawberry Linden @Patch Linden @Grumpity Linden

[Solar Legion]

Unless there's something I have missed, the Destination Guide is not explicitly geared to display only areas that are friendly/available to new users.

That distinction goes to a rather specific category within it.

If the places in that category are kicking brand new users then yes, there's a problem.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Solar Legion said:

Unless there's something I have missed, the Destination Guide is not explicitly geared to display only areas that are friendly/available to new users.

It should apply to the whole guide. No exceptions.

The rules need to be updated.

[Solar Legion]

Just now, Coffee Pancake said:

It should apply to the whole guide. No exceptions.

The rules need to be updated.

That is a matter of opinion, one which I do not share.

There is a category for Newcomer Friendly places, this should be at the top of the list and given a fair bit more scrutiny.

Do note that one of the weighted criteria listed concerns being open to/friendly toward new users.

[Coffee Pancake]

Just now, Solar Legion said:

That is a matter of opinion, one which I do not share.

There is a category for Newcomer Friendly places, this should be at the top of the list and given a fair bit more scrutiny.

Do note that one of the weighted criteria listed concerns being open to/friendly toward new users.

New users do not know there are special rules for special categories.

Being suspicious of new accounts is something we all must get over if we ever expect SL to grow.

[Solar Legion]

Making this a separate response to the above: I was one of the users that simply rolled my eyes when the Destination Guide was opened up. Partly because I'd never use it and partly because I predicted that the current situation would arise.

To give my brutally honest opinion? It needs to simply go away as a whole.

[Solar Legion]

Just now, Coffee Pancake said:

New users do not know there are special rules for special categories.

Being suspicious of new accounts is something we all must get over if we ever expect SL to grow.

Yes and? As I stated in my direct response, the specific category for being new User friendly needs to be first in the list and needs more scrutiny if they're going to keep the Destination Guide.

You are preaching to the choir on this one.

[FairreLilette]

13 hours ago, Quistessa said:

We have 'settings' type inventory items for EEP things. perhaps we could have 'inventory

We have what for EEP things?  I have purchased quite a few "EEP things" and they are no modify so I cannot rename them from their nonsense names such as "Jane's Quiet Time" or whatever crazy name they have so I cannot find any of them.  What 'settings' are you talking about?

Plus, if they ever decide to have a permanent non-EEP viewer where one can easily click a menu of windlights or environments and have a slider, I might consider that worth paying for.  Otherwise, EEP is a hassle and huge drain of time trying to get a good lighting if I can even find the darn things.  The old way with a menu of lightings built into the viewer and a slider took seconds, now it's hours to get a good light I like, so I gave up on EEP as it's too much trouble and hassle....so what EEP things are you talking about here?

[Quistess Alpha]

Just now, FairreLilette said:

so what EEP things are you talking about here?

right click in your inventory -> new settings -> new sky / new water / new day cycle.

Maybe I'm mistaken and they aren't eep?

[lucagrabacr]

41 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

It seems that SL is pretty bad for newbies. I just saw a video of someone who had a terrible time. This was uploaded a few days ago.

 

Watched the whole thing, it is a pretty typical but fair take on Second Life when judged or viewed from tech/game/internet culture-savvy audience.

I'm still certain there are ways that SL can be perceived more favorably by that kinda audience without sacrificing or compromising what SL is or reducing its appeal to its core audience. I know it can be done, hopefully LL can do it right.

I think the problem is in the past LL higher ups might look at something like this, but because they think very differently from the aforementioned audience since they have very different mindset and frame of references in mind, they translate the feedbacks to actions or creative decisions that they think would address the perception issue from said audience but only made it worse 

Newer people who are at the operational helm of SL (like how Ebbe was, rest in peace) seem to be more perceptive and more in-touch with modern internet culture however, so I'm hopeful c=

[Solar Legion]

@FairreLilette: There is a system level/type folder within the Inventory labeled as "Settings" This is where any user created EEP presets go. If you've purchased any EEP presets, you should be unpacking them and putting them there to find them more easily.

As for the naming conventions .... Windlight was not immune to such names either.

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

We have what for EEP things?  I have purchased quite a few "EEP things" and they are no modify so I cannot rename them from their nonsense names such as "Jane's Quiet Time" or whatever crazy name they have so I cannot find any of them.  What 'settings' are you talking about?

Plus, if they ever decide to have a permanent non-EEP viewer where one can easily click a menu of windlights or environments and have a slider, I might consider that worth paying for.  Otherwise, EEP is a hassle and huge drain of time trying to get a good lighting if I can even find the darn things.  The old way with a menu of lightings built into the viewer and a slider took seconds, now it's hours to get a good light I like, so I gave up on EEP as it's too much trouble and hassle....so what EEP things are you talking about here?

Just so you are aware.  If you open the environmental editor thingie and grab the sun and move it around, it does basically what the slider did.  Pick your EEP setting, to into that editing section, cursor over and grab the sun.  Wiggle it around to get the magical look you have mentioned.

[Rowan Amore]

Settings are the new category for EEP in your inventory

ETA.  They released a bunch of fixes for their viewer which mostly had to do with EEP

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Rowan Amore