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How do you feel about unisex public restrooms?


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1 hour ago, Krystina Ferraris said:

it's so sad that in 2021 there are still people out there who question the right of a trans woman to use the female toilet.

This isnt this issue, the issue is the potential for abuse, the possibility that some horney straight guy will claim to be transgendered to go into a woman's restroom and try to get a peak at some womans private parts. Do not women have the right to go to the bathroom whithout having to worry about this?

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Posted (edited)

Unisex bathrooms are a non issue made an issue by transphobes because they only just twigged on to the fact that [gasp]  Trans people also need to pee.

That they then pretend it's a "safety issue" is an insult not just to the trans women who are the main targets. But those who have actually been assaulted in bathrooms. (Many being trans themselves!)

First it erroneously assumes that (cis) women can never be the assaulters, or (cis) men can never be the victims. (It is almost always framed as male folk doing the crime to a female victim.)

Second, that they somehow think it is easier to just claim to be trans then just...either go in anyway or the must simpler,  pretend to be a staff member. Or the other more common factor. Attack the (perceived) trans woman for "invading" a female space.

It's bigotry pretend to be concerned for victims while doing nothing to actually tackle the issue they claim to be heralding. But plenty of work and effort to make it unsafe for trans people or those who don't conform to ridgid gender sterotypes.

 

Just ask the butch women if they feel "safer"  now in bathrooms.

Edited by Robin Kiyori
early enters will be my doom.
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I can see that it would be expensive to retrofit existing shared facilities into multiple single-user restrooms, but especially in new construction (up to some scale) it can be cost and space effective, compared to replicating to-code ADA-compliant accommodations in both shared single-sex restrooms.

At very large scale (stadiums, airport terminals, cineplexes, conference centers...), I'm not sure how to match the space efficiency of a wall of men's urinals. They'd still work in a shared unisex facility but I understand the security concerns with any shared facilities (unisex or not).

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   What about sports?

   What about changing rooms in gyms, bath houses, sport centres, etc?

   What about boarding school dormitories, or other instances of shared accommodations?

   I don't think that making everything unisex to try to accommodate everyone is the way to go, I think it should be up to each of the people whom it concerns, which in many countries is less than half a percentage of the population, to make their own decision on which side of the gender line they are in the times it matters. The vast majority of the population still think of themselves as either men or women, and don't necessarily feel comfortable sharing facilities with people of the different gender.

   That said, my workplace did have two changing rooms, but aside from the toilets in those rooms, we had three further toilets which were all unisex (on account of being just a small room with a lockable door, a throne, and a faucet). In some places, unisex bathrooms may well work, but I think it's outright idiotic to think that we could make a decision to universally make all restrooms everywhere unisex to accommodate everyone. 

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42 minutes ago, BiliEyelash said:

This isnt this issue, the issue is the potential for abuse, the possibility that some horney straight guy will claim to be transgendered to go into a woman's restroom and try to get a peak at some womans private parts. Do not women have the right to go to the bathroom whithout having to worry about this?

Over here (Pre-Covid when night life was still happening) A&Es on weekends were full of women assaulted by men in public places, not restrooms. There were also a crazy number of women who were assaulted by other women in restrooms.

I am not denying that the situation you describe can happen. I would be interested in knowing how many times that actually happened? A horny and possibly drunk guy can wander into a women's bathroom without pretending to be a transgender woman, and do whatever is in his head at that particular time. Looking at the average toilet cubicle out there though, I'm thinking the guy wanting to take a peek at my privates must be quite the contortionist to fold under the door, or quite the gymnast to suspend himself over the walls. 

There are many facets to this, as someone else mentioned earlier for example some cultures would not accept unisex toilets due to religious belief or other cultural factors. 

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1 hour ago, BiliEyelash said:

This isnt this issue, the issue is the potential for abuse, the possibility that some horney straight guy will claim to be transgendered to go into a woman's restroom and try to get a peak at some womans private parts. Do not women have the right to go to the bathroom whithout having to worry about this?

Sure, but its WAY more likely that a man wanting to commit a crime will be dressing up as a janitor, not as a woman. Or not bothering to dress up at all. Men who want to enter the womens bathroom for criminal reasons will not go to that much effort, they just walk in anyway.  There has never been any case of a trans woman, or a man pretending to be a trans woman, or pretending to be any kind of woman in order to enter a bathroom to commit assault on a cisgender woman. Most assaults in women's bathrooms are fights between women.

I can't think of any other non-existent crime (besides sneaking microchips into vaccines) that get people so worked up.

Billi, you are several orders of magnitude more likely to get assaulted by a man in the street than in a women's bathroom. A women's bathroom is literally the safest place in the world in terms of being victim of a sexual assault.  There is a potential that a woman might attack me in a bar with a pairs of scissors and cut off my ear. It could happen. But it hasn't happened to anyone else so I see no reason to be scared of going to bars. Or to ban women from going into bars. Or ban women from owning scissors.

If you are genuinely afraid of being assaulted by a trans woman or a man pretending to be a trans woman in a bathroom, then you ought to stop listening to false propaganda because it is causing you too much un-necessary stress over something that never actually happens.

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If trans people have been using the bathrooms they want to for years already, as they say they have, I really don't even see the point in unisex bathrooms. There is virtually no point whatsoever to them. Yes "transphobes" might curl their noses up at the thought of them using the bathrooms they want to but there is absolutely nothing they can do to stop from doing so. I don't have an issue with it. Never have never will. Never even thought of it as an issue until now, apparently it's being made into an issue when really, it's a non issue. 

What is an issue though is the concept of men's and women's personal spaces being taken away from them. I suffer with massive social anxiety and use toilets as an "escape" at times, away from people. Being stuck in a women's toilet with a trans woman doesn't disturb me whatsoever- being stuck in there with a MAN does though.

And if you're non-binary you technically shouldn't have issue using either men or women's toilets. So, I think unisex bathrooms are completely pointless, socially speaking. There's a current weird obsession with making things gender neutral and this one of them.

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Posted (edited)

For me it is about safety as well as cleanliness and other things. I refuse to be a victim again.  That includes the jerks that would accost me as I would come out of the ladies room. No means no. It doesn't mean follow me to my car and then  follow me home. Yes it happened more than once. So those who say it isn't a safety issue are only looking at it from a single POV. 

My issues with it have nothing to do with trans people and it does bother me and others like me to be lumped in with people that are not like us. Telling victims/survivors there are no safety concerns isn't much different than blaming the victim for being a victim.

 

Edit: I had  to go through my post and change ONE WORD before it would let the post go through. That word starts with an R and ends  with APE. Thank you so much LL for the support of victims. I won't forget.

Edited by Silent Mistwalker
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, BiliEyelash said:

This isnt this issue, the issue is the potential for abuse, the possibility that some horney straight guy will claim to be transgendered to go into a woman's restroom and try to get a peak at some womans private parts. Do not women have the right to go to the bathroom whithout having to worry about this?

For more than half of the Twentieth Century, in large parts of the United States (including the nation's capital) it was assumed that a public facility would need four separate categories of restrooms...

https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/11/anti-trans-bathroom-propaganda-has-roots-in-racial-segregation.html

Edited by Theresa Tennyson
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59 minutes ago, Lewis Luminos said:

If you are genuinely afraid of being assaulted by a trans woman or a man pretending to be a trans woman in a bathroom, then you ought to stop listening to false propaganda because it is causing you too much un-necessary stress over something that never actually happens.

Yes..."false propaganda that never actually happens"... LINK

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

Yes..."false propaganda that never actually happens".

Yes, dangerous, dangerous people go into women's rooms...

http://www.takepart.com/article/2016/05/02/woman-shows-bathroom-safety-isnt-only-trans-concern

https://www.gaystarnews.com/article/lesbian-kicked-out-of-bowling-alley-because-she-used-the-womens-restroom/

Edited by Theresa Tennyson
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These bathroom bills in the U.S. are part of a larger picture:

Hundreds of anti-trans, anti-LGBTQ bills were tabled in state legislatures. Some passed, some failed, some were vetoed, some wait to be voted on—and some will return next session.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-full-scale-of-anti-trans-anti-lgbtq-bills-in-state-houses-will-shock-you

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I sincerely apologize if I framed the restroom issue in an insensitive manner in my original post. I really am sorry, please forgive my ignorance.

However, I'd also like to thank everyone who participated in this topic for sharing their viewpoints. I read everything and am learning more about the issue at hand.  

 

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49 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

Yes..."false propaganda that never actually happens"... LINK

That particular case (the only one, and it didn't happen in the US) is not about a man who dressed up as a trans woman in order to commit a sexual assault. The person in question was an actual trans woman. The assault was dealt with by regular UK law about people of any gender being prohibited from committing assault anywhere, regardless of the type of room it happens in. No special laws are needed. Assault is illegal, regardless of who you are or where you do it.

It could just as easily have been a cisgender woman who committed the assault. If it was, would it then be necessary to prevent all cisgender women from going into a womens' bathroom? If not, why not?

If safety is the concern then every bathroom everywhere needs to be single-occupancy, with multiple-occupancy bathrooms prohibited for everybody. Singling out only trans people as being a threat, and not trying to prevent cisgender people from doing the same, is transphobia.

There were 25.5 million cases of sexual assault in the USA in 2018. There aren't even that many trans people in the world.

 

 

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It doesn't affect me much since I rarely use public bathrooms. But if there were individual stalls with locked doors, and the sinks are out in the open, I suppose that'd be ok. The only thing that crosses my mind is the fact that men and women typically use the amenities differently. For instance, I wouldn't feel too comfortable touching up my makeup at the mirrors with a stranger man next to me. And guys have told me about how badly some are at aiming their stream.. that'd make things harder for girls. But if a bathroom situation ever makes me uncomfortable, I'll just hold it in, no big deal.

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2 hours ago, Lewis Luminos said:

That particular case (the only one, and it didn't happen in the US) is not about a man who dressed up as a trans woman in order to commit a sexual assault. The person in question was an actual trans woman. The assault was dealt with by regular UK law about people of any gender being prohibited from committing assault anywhere, regardless of the type of room it happens in. No special laws are needed. Assault is illegal, regardless of who you are or where you do it.

It could just as easily have been a cisgender woman who committed the assault. If it was, would it then be necessary to prevent all cisgender women from going into a womens' bathroom? If not, why not?

If safety is the concern then every bathroom everywhere needs to be single-occupancy, with multiple-occupancy bathrooms prohibited for everybody. Singling out only trans people as being a threat, and not trying to prevent cisgender people from doing the same, is transphobia.

There were 25.5 million cases of sexual assault in the USA in 2018. There aren't even that many trans people in the world.

 

 

We have the right to be safe when we use the bathroom.  We have the right to compete in sports against other genetic women.  We have the right to be called "women", without having some newfangeled madeup term tacked to the front of it.  We have the right to be able to voice our concerns and stand up for our rights without being labelled "phobes" and "terfs".  

We have the right to be women.

When you have battled underwire bras, Aunt Flo visits and PMS for over half your life, THEN you can have an opinion on how women should feel about people like these in our private spaces.

[Moderator Edit: Inflammatory Images Removed]

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11 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

When you have battled underwire bras, Aunt Flo visits and PMS for over half your life, THEN you can have an opinion on how women should feel about people like these in our private spaces.

 

Yes I have. Is 44 years enough?

And absolutely women deserve to be safe everywhere. It makes sense to start where the threat is greatest. The groups who commit sexual assault the most frequently (white, straight men) in the places where assault happens the most frequently (women's own homes, parks, streets).

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The only solution to this problem is to outlaw multiple occupancy public bathrooms. Make them all single occupancy with a lockable door, one toilet and a sink, and no-one else can get in until you've finished. Yes it will cost more money but if people want the problem solved, that's the only way to achieve it.

Alternatively, just nuke the planet from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Maitimo said:

The only solution to this problem is to outlaw multiple occupancy public bathrooms. Make them all single occupancy with a lockable door, one toilet and a sink, and no-one else can get in until you've finished. Yes it will cost more money but if people want the problem solved, that's the only way to achieve it.

Yes but then they'll have to find another way to rail against "the strange people". That can be awfully difficult.

'Othering' is hard work. When you find a good way to rile people up then you gotta stick to it.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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3 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

This thread is about as relevant to SL as that other thread that was just closed. Not sure why this one is still open.

Show us pics of your SL bathroom! Here's mine! (Its about as exciting as my RL bathroom).

bathroom_001.thumb.jpg.c6a2438c2fbb2427dd214fb9fa77e1e6.jpg

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Maitimo said:

Show us pics of your SL bathroom! Here's mine! (Its about as exciting as my RL bathroom).

 

Mine is kind of boring, and will not be winning any awards.  

 

smallSnapshot_024.png.55bb42157361fab91754413690b27793.png

 

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1 minute ago, Istelathis said:

Mine is kind of boring, and will not be winning any awards.  

 

smallSnapshot_024.png.55bb42157361fab91754413690b27793.png

 

You got the same bath as me, except I detached the curtain cos I got fed up of clicking on it by mistake and ending up in the bath.

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