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How to DJ Legally in SL


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25 minutes ago, Finite said:

 

They have already. 

Streaming your own music into Second Life

It is possible to stream your own music from your computer into SL. Unless you have a large amount of bandwidth available, using your own machine as a streaming server is not really an option. With around 5 users connected you would using most of the bandwidth of a standard DSL line.

Therefore to stream your own music you would require a streaming relay provider. You would send a single stream of music (around 6-8k/s) to the streaming relay provider. The relay would then stream multiple copies of the music into SL.

The two most common streaming server systems at the moment are a Shoutcast and Icecast. You can either set up the server software on one of your own servers or pay someone to host it. Due to the amount of bandwidth required for multiple streams, the price of streaming can vary. Try searching Google for a list of other available hosting solutions.

Remember that streaming copyrighted music across the internet requires a license from your relevant national licensing authority.

 

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Streaming_Music

 

I found that page long time ago, even quoted the last line of your quote a little earlier in this thread:
Remember that streaming copyrighted music across the internet requires a license from your relevant national licensing authority.

But finding the right license to stream (in my case) from The NL to an international community (being SL visitors to the event) is much more complicated.
Haven't found that yet.
Do I need an US license + an UK one + a Canadian, French, Belgium and Swahili License +........ as well on top of that?

Edited by Sid Nagy
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I looked into Shoutcast and they do not take responsibility for any streams. Shoutcast recommends a company called ProNETLicensing which offers very small scale licensing options but this is not the only licensing company out there which cover many specific types of music. Not suggesting you should do it. You could probably all fall into the non-profit category of streaming.

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15 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I found that page long time ago, even quoted the last line of your quote a little earlier in this thread:
Remember that streaming copyrighted music across the internet requires a license from your relevant national licensing authority.

But finding the right license to stream (in my case) from The NL to an international community (being SL visitors to the event) is much more complicated.
Haven't found that yet.
Do I need an US license + an UK one + a Canadian, French, Belgium and Swahili License +........ as well on top of that?

Haha ya that sounds confusing. I think that would be answered by whoever you decide to license through. 
 

the internet really scrambles a lot of these things. 

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38 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Non profit if you get payed and or take tips?

DJ's don't get paid in SL.  Some did during the early heydays of  music clubs, if they brought in enough paying customers that tipped the venue.  Live performers, eg  karaoke singers that sing copyrighted songs do get paid.  They usually do no prep work for repeating their songs, but Live singers, who ask $4000L /hr for their show plus tips, maybe should pay royalties on the popular songs they sing.

 

 

 

Edited by Jaylinbridges
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6 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Non profit if you get payed and or take tips?

Not enough profit, possibly, for anyone to bother forcing the issue.  Even if they went after every single DJ in SL, it wouldn't amount to much as far as their profit/loss is concerned.   Not to mention, bad press.

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I just found a company who deals with international streaming.
They only charge 500 USD annually for one international non commercial stream.
And then you're good in 30+ countries (so still not all).
😱

 

 

Edited by Sid Nagy
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1 hour ago, Sid Nagy said:

I could not care less what you do in SL. Not my beer.

But here in this thread there is the discussion on how to legally DJ in SL.
IMHO it is only legal, when you get a license. And there it gets really complicated: Being licensed in one country doesn't automatically mean that you legally DJ at a SL venue when there are customers listening to your stream from other countries then where you live.

The easy solution is put up a stream and let the music play.
Chances of being caught ......... not that big.
But is it legal? Nope.

How and where to get the right license to DJ in SL?  I have still no clue after 14 years inworld.

You'd think by now there would be some international entitiy to represent all the different music rights orgranisations and take care of distributing the funds among them.

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Here is typical Non commercial webcaster Royalty fee:

A. Noncommercial Webcasters (CRB). The Noncommercial Webcaster rates and terms are set forth in 37 CFR Part 380. a. Minimum Fee Payment and Statement of Account: Services that operate as Noncommercial Webcasters must pay a $500 USD recoupable, non-refundable minimum fee per station or channel by February 1, 2021 (accompanied by a signed and completed Statement of Account form, either mailed/emailed or calculated and certified online using SoundExchange Licensee Direct). This annual fee covers the first 159,140 aggregate tuning hours (“ATH”) per month; any usage greater than this must be paid for as described in (b) below. Services must submit a monthly Statement of Account listing their aggregate tuning hours for the month no later than 45 days after the end of the month.

So you pay a Minimum $500/year for 159,140 ATH/month.  ATH is basically number of listeners times the number of hours you transmit music. So if I DJ for 6 hrs/week (3 sets) and I have 15 listeners (typical) , my ATH would be about 390 ATH/month.  The $500 fee covers 159,140 ATH/month!  So am using 0.24 % of the allowed ATH per month, and I should pay $500/year for this?  That is why it's ridiculous to think your average SL DJ should pay royalties.  Besides the fact that his program does not meet the web broadcasting criteria.  It's a non issue, and LL's so called conclusion is just a cover your azz comment.  If they want to enforce it for all the 10,000 who stream music in SL, lets do it fairly, and ban everyone.  Or just eliminate streaming music in SL?    Another 100 employees working full-time should be able to catch all the illegal streamers.  Another reason to up the rates?

Aggregate Tuning Hours are the total hours of programming that a nonsubscription transmission service, preexisting satellite digital audio radio service, new subscription service or business establishment service has transmitted during the reporting period ... (a two-week period (two periods of 7 consecutive days) for each calendar quarter of the year) ... to all listeners within the United States over the relevant channels or stations

Added: If the fee was proportional to hours and listeners, I would pay $1.20 USD/year for one year.  But we all know how greedy companies love minimum non-refundable fees.

 

Edited by Jaylinbridges
Corrected my numbers a few times
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2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I just found a company who deals with international streaming.
They only charge 500 USD annually for one international stream a year.
😱

 

Lol I was trying to find one myself. Found one for less than 300 usd annually but I’m not sure it was the correct type of license. It said it was for websites or apps.

I also saw something that said a license isn’t needed for streaming unless it’s commercial. “Commercial” in copyright terms means ads or like promoting something. A club or bar would require a license but if you are just on your own parcel it doesn’t sound like it applies.

there’s also the whole redistribution thing whether it’s commercial or not.

im honestly done trying to wrap my brain around all this. 
 

/me turns on my Pandora that no one but I can hear ;)

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7 hours ago, Cinos Field said:

Playing music for your friends is just as illegal, the industry is incredibly corrupt. It's just that the industry can't afford to spend spies to every home.

Maybe Alexa can fill in that role.

If the industry had their way there would be no physical media and pay for every minute you listen to music.  It's already happening with the streaming services and the lack of physical music sales for the most part. Since our bar belongs to a music pool someone asked about a new song they heard somewhere and found out it's only available as an app for the phone.

This goes back to the early 20th century when the new thing coming out aka radio was getting started. Some record companies and ASCAP restricted radio stations from playing the records --- fearing it would cut into profits. That's how BMI started and encourage artists to use them for publishing and allowing radio to play their songs.

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Not the artist, not the network, but the production company that is creating that tv show. They will have all the rights to any music produced on the show. They have lawyers to license any music they might use. If the artist has an original work they will probably have the publishing rights but not the performance rights which belong to the production co. 

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I reached out to BMI years ago about this, and was told that as a DJ working for others, the venue is responsible for paying the royalties, even if it's a virtual venue.

That said, I'm not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice, and they may not have understood how Second Life worked back then. Today's world of streamers and podcasters and everything else may have caused updates in their policies.

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8 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

I just found a company who deals with international streaming.
They only charge 500 USD annually for one international non commercial stream.
And then you're good in 30+ countries (so still not all).
😱

 

 

Wow!  That's great.  Like 90% cheaper than what I was finding so long ago!  

I wonder if any of the streaming services available to small-timers can block countries other than those in which one is licensed?  I've run into that myself while traveling abroad.  

It's the internet equivalent of those inexpensive DVDs you find in the developing world that won't play on Western DVD players.  There are different licensing rates in different rates for other parts of the world. 

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The new 5 year rates for non-commercial non-interactive webstreaming should be released on June 14, 2021 by the CRB.  Sound Exchange, the royalty collector for  32 Million sound recordings, has proposed a $1000/yr Minimum fee for webcasters, up from the prior $500/yr.   Other companies will follow if the CRB approves this.

https://www.broadcastlawblog.com/2021/05/articles/copyright-royalty-board-decision-on-webcasting-royalties-expected-by-june-14-what-will-the-streaming-rates-for-2021-2025-be/#more-7717

Edited by Jaylinbridges
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1 hour ago, Jaylinbridges said:

The new 5 year rates for non-commercial non-interactive webstreaming should be released on June 14, 2021 by the CRB.  Sound Exchange, the royalty collector for  32 Million sound recordings, has proposed a $1000/yr Minimum fee for webcasters, up from the prior $500/yr.   Other companies will follow if the CRB approves this.

https://www.broadcastlawblog.com/2021/05/articles/copyright-royalty-board-decision-on-webcasting-royalties-expected-by-june-14-what-will-the-streaming-rates-for-2021-2025-be/#more-7717

Thanks!  That's the web site I was looking for a while back.  I see the proposed increased from $500 to $1000 minimum per year.  That's a big step.  Wonder how many SL DJs will get hit by that?

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17 minutes ago, Desiree Moonwinder said:

Wonder how many SL DJs will get hit by that?

Independent DJ's I would guess zero.  I know of none that pay any royalties just for their DJ sets.  If the DJ also runs a 24/7 music streaming website with a web page and ask for donations, then they might - their donations could cover the $500/yr fee.  But from the few I know, none have enough listeners to afford the royalty, and can afford the upfront fee.

 

Edited by Jaylinbridges
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Second Life DJ's should simply play whatever music makes their audience happy and not worry about licensing. As people have mentioned in real life the venues take care of the licensing fee as part of their operating costs. This thread should have been, "How to run a club legally in SL". Well, you the club owner need to get a license to play music in your club so that DJs can perform. We all know how many people come into SL asking how to make a club. Clubs have to play music whether they have a DJ or not.

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5 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

Second Life DJ's should simply play whatever music makes their audience happy and not worry about licensing. As people have mentioned in real life the venues take care of the licensing fee as part of their operating costs. This thread should have been, "How to run a club legally in SL". Well, you the club owner need to get a license to play music in your club so that DJs can perform. We all know how many people come into SL asking how to make a club. Clubs have to play music whether they have a DJ or not.

It would be interesting to know what club actually has a license to play music in SL. My bet is none.

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Virtual DJ didn't DROP their service however it is through a new licensing company. Old memberships may not have auto rolled over. What is available is based on the contracted license fees at that time. It will change on a regular bases between periods.

They all have fee's, that is the only way to stay legal. If questioned keep your license service key ready.

With the full licensed pro edition You can use other licensed services for broadcasts.

Still to many ripping off youtube and other services, wish they will implement digital static to prevent it. Usually you can tell when its ripped.

Every DJ broadcasting actively has to have a service or license to broadcast. Not a club itself or a land owner or in many cases Renter.  The software also needs to be freeware or a licensed copy. There have been cases when individuals have been asked to provide proof.  Linden labs is waived of any action, and it is solely against the person broadcasting. More often the complaint comes through to the streaming service such as Icecast. The ip and ISP provider you connect with is provided by them if a complaint of infringement is filed. 

Average licensed services 180-600.00 USD per year ($20-50.00/month) It depends on content they have available for licensed use. The more they do the higher it will be. 

Ripping music is against linden TOS. IF a complaint is filed by a company, they suspend accounts pending litigation. It is best to be sure you have purchased and licensed music and proof of it. Doesn't mean it will but it is certainly a possibility. 

There are another factors in cases. If a DJ is broadcasting Published music and making a profit, they must have proper licensing at all times. (Would have to cash out via TIlia or take correct donations or payments for the service. Linden itself is not profit if kept in game). 

For us we already have licensed use as out of secondlife DJ's. IT is better to have yourself covered. it's not that expensive to have base library access and cover yourself. 

 

Edited by anthonytorino
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7 hours ago, anthonytorino said:

Every DJ broadcasting actively has to have a service or license to broadcast.

SL DJ's are not all broadcasters.  Every DJ needs a service to stream, most use ShoutCast or Icecast, which you rent from the hundreds of in-world SL vendors.  A few clubs want you to use the club stream, in which case the stream belongs to the club owner.

Anyone can set up their own Shoutcast server for free, no license required, if you have the upstream bandwidth. This is not broadcast radio, TV,  cable, or satellite, which do require a license from the government (FCC in the USA).  Those commercial broadcasters are Irrelevant to a DJ in SL.  Most DJ's use a private unpublished rented stream.  They have NO visibility in any online directory, and have no personal website that lists their service or asks for USD donations.  Only if you know their stream IP# and port# can you even find their Shoutcast or Icecast site.  There is no necessity to list any information on a Shoutcast website, including your stream name, or song list. 

If you think music publishers send lawyers in-world to SL to search the hundreds of clubs and venues looking for "illegal" DJ's, you are deluded.  But there are too many clubs and DJ's in SL as it is - so if you believe what anthony says, do not DJ or start a club in Second Life.  We could all use less competition!

All of these DJ streaming laws apply to PROFESSIONAL DJ's working in the REAL WORLD.  SL DJ's are hobbyists playing music on someone's parcel, or maybe at your own home, for a few friends or maybe only one friend. Nobody is required to pay lindens to listen or attend your little party.

And if you are at a large club, you also will not get paid by the club owner, although many do like to take a per cent of your tips for themselves, while requiring the DJ to spam for the club owner's rentals, shops, and venue tier.  We provide free advertising with no compensation to show up at an exact time (w/ a 30 min early check-in) and perform as an entertainer for 2-4 hours, while the club owner is offline or busy.  That is not what a Professional DJ does in RL and should not in SL.  Hence all DJ's are NOT professional in SL, they are unpaid volunteer hobbyists.  Let's insist they all pay $1000 USD/yr in royalty fees, $600 USD/yr for Professional DJ subscription services (which often have a limited selection in your genre), plus all the personal expenses a DJ must pay to stay on SL (hardware, software, ISP fees, etc.)  And nothing for your time of course, You work for about 10 cents/hr.  SO again, if you don't have $1600/yr up front to work for free as an SL DJ, go back to watching music videos on Youtube. :)

 

 

 

 

Edited by Jaylinbridges
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From the ASCAP website

Aren't musicians, entertainers and DJ's responsible for obtaining permission for music they perform?

Some people mistakenly assume that musicians and entertainers must obtain licenses to perform copyrighted music or that businesses where music is performed can shift their responsibility to musicians or entertainers. The law says all who participate in, or are responsible for, performances of music are legally responsible. Since it is the business owner who obtains the ultimate benefit from the performance, it is the business owner who obtains the license. Music license fees are one of the many costs of doing business.

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Additionally, since we've had answers across the board.

If you have additional questions concerning ASCAP New Media licensing, or your responsibilities under the U.S. copyright law for the use of music by way of an Internet or digital wireless service, please contact ASCAP by utilizing the chat feature at www.ascap.com, emailing weblicense@ascap.com or calling (800) 505-4052.

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