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I'm going to give up on flying airplanes on SL


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I fly Dani airplanes.  Just a simple single prop sea plane.  No fast flying jets.  I fly as slow as possible.. I wear an outfit that is low prim.   I try and fly over water. None of these things seem to prevent me from eventually being ejected from my plane which I assume is because the plane crosses the sim before or after I do.   Been on since 2006.. Been trying to fly since 2012..  I think I'm gonna give it up.   Boating doesn't seem to have these issues.  I have decent gaming hardware and FiOS high speed Internet.

What are others thoughts?

 

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Has something changed due to cloud move? several have reported same issues. Not sure if a bug report has been added to that issue?

someone will be in soon to let you know if it's you or the bugs to "solve your issue"🤡

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1 minute ago, Sassy Kenin said:

Has something changed due to cloud move? several have reported same issues. Not sure if a bug report has been added to that issue?

someone will be in soon to let you know if it's you or the bugs to "solve your issue" 🤡

planes and region crossings have been issues for years and years, has nothing to do with the aws server move.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

planes and region crossings have been issues for years and years, has nothing to do with the aws server move.

Not true a bug has been introduced, by the way the cloud deals with regions crossings.

There is a band aid for avsit vehicles provided by Uggo and one by Carla Wetter. There is now an accepted jira on the issue and the workaround for scripters

[BUG-230770] Bad connection causing vehicles script to trigger wrong CHANGED_LINK event after crossing - Second Life Bug Tracker

One thing that might help is to play around with your bandwidth setting to reduce packet loss, it should be under 1%. Shift Ctrl 1 will give you the information on packet loss, but note the figure it gives is an average over the session so to see any improvements you need to log out and log back in again after making any changes. I was running at 6% packet loss on my 2 Mbps connection, reducing by bandwidth from 500kbps to 300Kbps brought packet loss down to under 1%.

For more info read this: https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_speedtest

I seem to have to go exceptionally low to have a meaningful impact on packet loss.

Edited by Aethelwine
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5 minutes ago, Aethelwine said:

Not true a bug has been introduced, by the way the cloud deals with regions crossings.

There is a band aid for avsit vehicles provided by Uggo and one by Carla Wetter. There is now an accepted jira on the issue and the workaround for scripters

[BUG-230770] Bad connection causing vehicles script to trigger wrong CHANGED_LINK event after crossing - Second Life Bug Tracker

One thing that might help is to play around with your bandwidth setting to reduce packet loss, it should be under 1%. Shift Ctrl 1 will give you the information on packet loss, but note the figure it gives is an average over the session so to see any improvements you need to log out and log back in again after making any changes. I was running at 6% packet loss on my 2 Mbps connection, reducing by bandwidth from 500kbps to 300Kbps brought packet loss down to under 1%.

For more info read this:  https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_speedtest

I seem to have to go exceptionally low to have a meaningful impact on packet loss.

Very true, sim crossing with planes has been an issue for years, it's not new.  14 years in SL,  sometimes flying,  you described what most of us slammed into many many times.   and onto bandwidth over 1500 and you are just causing your own self issues,  there is a bug,  LL has to fix before it's fixed in other viewer. 

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44 minutes ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

Very true, sim crossing with planes has been an issue for years, it's not new.  14 years in SL,  sometimes flying,  you described what most of us slammed into many many times.   and onto bandwidth over 1500 and you are just causing your own self issues,  there is a bug,  LL has to fix before it's fixed in other viewer. 

There are bugs with the way crossings are handled but my point is a specific bug as highlighted and accepted in the Jira was introduced with the cloud. Many people have seen improvements because of the fixes introduced for it. I know it may not sound that impressive but tens of people have told me that they experienced the same. These tens of people like myself regularly use vehicles in races and cruises, not just casual travellers. Perfectly normal region crossings (with occasional failures) until the cloud, afterwards struggling to make more than a few region crossings before the vehicle decided they are no longer connected.

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I've written enough on this before. Once you accept in scripting that a region crossing is a process that takes time, not an atomic event, you can handle the minor problems involving animations and controls. The Firestorm preference Move and View -> Movement -> Stop when error gets too large deals with large bogus movement at crossings.

Right now, my experience is that aggressive security orbs are more of a problem for flying than region crossings fails. I just flew the length of Satori, from GTFO HQ in Bruissac into Belessaria, with the little Duoquito helicopter. Shot down three times by security orbs or no-object-entry parcels. No hard fails at region crossings.

On the other hand, I can seldom fly the F-16A Fighting Falcon for more than 5 minutes without a hard fail.

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, animats said:

I've written enough on this before. Once you accept in scripting that a region crossing is a process that takes time, not an atomic event, you can handle the minor problems involving animations and controls. The Firestorm preference Move and View -> Movement -> Stop when error gets too large deals with large bogus movement at crossings.

Right now, my experience is that aggressive security orbs are more of a problem for flying than region crossings fails. I just flew the length of Satori, from GTFO HQ in Bruissac into Belessaria, with the little Duoquito helicopter. Shot down three times by security orbs or no-object-entry parcels. No hard fails at region crossings.

On the other hand, I can seldom fly the F-16A Fighting Falcon for more than 5 minutes without a hard fail.

Quite possibly because you have a decent connection.

Your experience doesn't help the many of us without Fibre locally that have a very different experience .

See the Jira for the lines to add that will help those suffering. 

Edited to add I am testing Uggo's updated scripts now and no problems at all

Edited by Aethelwine
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Tony Giffen said:

I fly Dani airplanes.  Just a simple single prop sea plane.  No fast flying jets.  I fly as slow as possible.. I wear an outfit that is low prim.   I try and fly over water. None of these things seem to prevent me from eventually being ejected from my plane which I assume is because the plane crosses the sim before or after I do.   Been on since 2006.. Been trying to fly since 2012..  I think I'm gonna give it up.   Boating doesn't seem to have these issues.  I have decent gaming hardware and FiOS high speed Internet.

What are others thoughts?

 

i kind of got off topic on the cloud issue. 

In your case I would take a look at your packet loss, if it is above 1% you should be looking at ways to reduce it.

Look at the advice here and bear in mind to see an improvement after making a change you need to relog because the package loss percentage is an average over your time since logging on.

https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_speedtest

Edited by Aethelwine
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I fly in SL since 2008. Mostly in small one engine props and Shergood heli's. Troubles with simcrossing is as old as SL. Sometimes very bad, sometimes reasonable and not spoiling the fun completely.

At times that the crossings are very bad I fly my Shergood heli's or I go sailing.

I sail more often than flying. With sailing there are much less problems.

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Posted (edited)

Just yesterday I've decided to make a scenic journey in a small helicopter (granted, it was not a plane) from Tschotcke airport region on mainland (south, then along Route 8 ) to the southern regions of Bellisseria (log houses zone; so I've crossed large amount of regions) - I was ejected exactly once by a security orb, had a bad region crossing that resulted in a crash exactly once as well - and I was tossed to the sides after region crossing around 10-15 times - mainland only, Lab's residential areas were stable.

Maybe try a different, less scripted airplane?

Edited by panterapolnocy
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12 hours ago, animats said:

I've written enough on this before. Once you accept in scripting that a region crossing is a process that takes time, not an atomic event, you can handle the minor problems involving animations and controls. The Firestorm preference Move and View -> Movement -> Stop when error gets too large deals with large bogus movement at crossings.

Right now, my experience is that aggressive security orbs are more of a problem for flying than region crossings fails. I just flew the length of Satori, from GTFO HQ in Bruissac into Belessaria, with the little Duoquito helicopter. Shot down three times by security orbs or no-object-entry parcels. No hard fails at region crossings.

On the other hand, I can seldom fly the F-16A Fighting Falcon for more than 5 minutes without a hard fail.

 

I miss Cubey and the Aerodrome.

https://secondlife.fandom.com/wiki/Abbotts_Aerodrome

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I used to fly in SL. Then I decided I'd chat in SL and do everything else in all the platforms that do it better.

Have you checked out the multiplayer in MS Flight Simulator?

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On 5/21/2021 at 10:45 PM, Paul Hexem said:

I used to fly in SL. Then I decided I'd chat in SL and do everything else in all the platforms that do it better.

Have you checked out the multiplayer in MS Flight Simulator?

I agree. Compared to MS  Flight Simulator flying in SL is so much less interesting.
But in FS I miss the avatars and the chat at the airport after the landing :)

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Posted (edited)

You complain about crossing sims in SL with an airplane.

You'll come back to SL, screaming, after you've tried to land a Harrier vertically in DCS.

8OWvplA.gif.9f3db3284e1c20fa901df89eb5c2613a.gif

P.S. There are smaller and slower planes in SL that do not have a problem with sim crossings, but I can't get into further details, because there's a big conflict of interest involved with that recommendation. :P

Edited by Arduenn Schwartzman
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   I haven't flown much in SL, I've sporadically tried out some demos, and back in the day I did get myself a Fokker Dr.I that I played around with a little, but I decided that as far as actual flying goes, there are better platforms than SL. That said, I've observed a lot of people flying around Blake Sea, and some people seem to be doing quite all right with slower-moving aeroplanes and helicopters, but then you've got people flying fighter jets that smash over a region crossing every 4 seconds - usually you'll see them stuck mid-air on a crossing as the pilots are stuck in a drawn-out client crash.

   It's the same with boating and driving though, my row boat barely notices sim crossings, but it takes a decent amount of time to move across an entire region - when I've tried to go flat out with speedy motor boats I had troubles as well and ended up in someone's living room as I lost control of the vehicle.

   You absolutely can fly in Second Life, but the more complex and fast any vehicle is (or rather, how frequently you can manage to get yourself to a sim crossing), regardless of whether it's land, water, or air based, region crossings are going to be a problem - trains are super resilient though, so for long journeys across the grid I'll always pick trains whenever I can (i.e. when there's railroad).

   SL aviation does have other 'cons' though; you'll need a heck of a draw distance to see much of anything you're flying over, and the higher the draw distance and LOD factor are, the more they will negatively impact your client performance. There's a reason most race tracks for bikes and cars are on single regions, built on roads going up into the sky rather than into the next region (aside from the cost, that is); in fast-moving, highly-scripted vehicles, you want to avoid region crossings as much as you can, especially if there's a competitive element to it (lots and lots of race tracks take lap times and keep high scores). 

   Essentially, vehicles in Second Life could either be made for cruising (i.e. crossing regions repeatedly), having a very simple set of scripts that are just there to make the vehicle move, or they can be made for racing (with scripts including absolute tons of customisation options to tune the vehicle precisely the way the user wants it to handle) that will be great fun on a track but a nightmare to go places in. You then have people who just pile as much as they can onto their vehicles - hundreds of couple animations including adult ones, all the customisation scripts you can think of, super-detailed mesh models with high-resolution textures, etc. Those vehicles are, to someone who isn't used to vehicles in SL, going to seem 'the best' because 'the more features the better, right?'. I'm not even sure what the creators intended for them, if anything at all, aside from a way to get people to throw a few thousand L$ at them. I suppose they could be good for RP if you're just hanging out at a motorbike club or something such, but for cruising they're pretty useless.

   Aeroplanes are much the same way. You got ones that just fly, and you've got ones with all sorts of scripts (rescue vehicles with water cannons and whatnot, flaps and flashing lights, landing gears, hatches opening, etc.) that may be great toys for an RP venue, but that you probably shouldn't use for extended trips.

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Posted (edited)

Did you guys ever noticed that birds don't use airplanes? You know why?
They can fly themselves.

In SL we can fly too.
Page Up > spread your arms > there you go.
Relatively smooth sim crossing 99% of the time.

With vehicles SL has its sim crossing issues. No exceptions for airborne objects.
These issues will probably not been solved before SL comes out of the beta stages.  😂

 

Edited by Sid Nagy
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38 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

These issues will probably not been solved before SL comes out of the beta stages.  😂

   Woah, woah, woah. 

   Can we at least let it come out of the Alpha stage before we start dreaming of the Beta stage? :|

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Ina Fairport said:

I agree. Compared to MS  Flight Simulator flying in SL is so much less interesting.
But in FS I miss the avatars and the chat at the airport after the landing :)

 

Or in X Plane 11.53 with the broken ATC which yells at you to go down to 3 hundred which would make me fly right into the mountains.

I heard VATSIM is better then default atc,but i would probably be booted from a server for spawning a B-25 at a passenger gate.

Edited by Axel UwU
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Region crossings are most affected by script load. The prim count is a far behind and way smaller factor.

Scripts often use 3MB or more of region server memory. When crossing to another region all that code and data has to be collected, compressed, sent to the destination region, unpacked and loaded into server memory.

The prim count is a list of UUIDs and attachment information. Compared to the scripts it is a tiny amount of data. The actual items live in the asset database and your viewer. THe data and textures for those items does not have to pass from region server to server, just the list.

Since the move to the cloud and cleanup of crossing problems I can fly a Shergood EC-135, which is pretty heavy script-wise, while wearing a normal day-to-day outfit with 2 to 4 MB of scripting along with running a log book HUD, a GTFO HUD, and the copter's control HUD. I can make 100+ region crossings at 80 to 120 knots (62m/sec or a region crossing every 4.2 seconds) with only minor problems. I most commonly get taken out by a zero-second delay security orb.

My next most common problem is lagging or down regions. They often show on the map (World & Mini) as a red area. I am getting better at making hard 90 degree turns...

Regions showing less than 30% of scripts run are a problem fly or sailing...

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Here I am flying over the Belli Stilts at 75 meters - I have no region crossing lag even at 20 m/s.  

Hoverboards run on fairy dust as we all know, and Bellisseria has an ample supply.

I also explore all the continents this way - my board is part of my avatar so no problem landing in no rezz regions.  Only zero second orbs and ban lines can bring me down.

Meow

Jaylin on Hoverboard crop.png

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