Littering or Personal Use of Public Linden Land

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

[Alwin Alcott]

11 minutes ago, vampirelicker201 said:

Perhaps you should spend your 17,585th post on another thread because this is trolling.

psst.. thats Reputation, not posts...   

and however that is no special status, it shows people are pretty active in the forum community.

[Rowan Amore]

Literally everything posted by @Sylvia Tamalynwas in direct response to the OP's question.  The fact that a Linden already came out to assess the situation and acted as he saw fit, should have told you all you needed to know.  Nothing more can be done aside from what people have already mentioned.  

You specifically calling her out warrants a response from her.  Most people would react the same way.  

AR, talk to the owner of the objects, support ticket,  derender or move.

Those are your options regardless of what you might want to hear.  Sylvia has more experience in mainland than most others in this thread.  Just sayin'.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Rowan Amore

[LilithLamia Vortex]

And the hits keep coming. Honestly, you guys are just burying the thread in nothing worth mentioning at this point. There really is no reason to respond unless you are kind and/or attempting to be helpful. Helpful does not mean to perpetuate what has already been stated. And hence why I generally do not post in these forums.

[MoiraKathleen]

I've been trying to visualize this situation, though from what I understand so far, I have not come across this type of situation, nor do I recall reading complaints of this particular type of situation in the forums. 

Generally when people experience or complain about encroachment, it's either a neighbor whose objects are encroaching into their parcel, or it's some type of encroachment into a LL protected area (generally a road or water channel) where the objects encroaching are not phantom, and those objects do actually block or stop others from using the LL road or water channel as designed. 

The way I read the initial posts by the OP led me to think that the items were phantom and were not in themselves, blocking use of the LL protected area.  If the items are NOT phantom, then that would seem to be stronger grounds for an Abuse Report (and be sure to be clear, in the abuse report, about which conditions of the TOS you feel are being violated).  

As far as other incoming or outgoing planes that use the LL protected area, I wouldn't see that as any type of TOS violation, especially if the LL area is a roadway or a water channel, which are generally expected to have vehicles, etc., traveling along them.  (Just curious - is there a Rez Zone that is close to there?) 

It's hard for me to dintinguish between what might be a TOS violation that interferes with the use of the parcel and the adjoining LL protected area, and what might just be a matter of principle. From situations I read about in the forums, and things I have heard from other residents, it seems to me that outside of some very serious types of transgressions, many other things are not completely black and white. 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

On 5/21/2021 at 7:23 AM, vampirelicker201 said:

I don't mind other people /using/ public space - but when you sort of "claim it for your own use" in such a way, that's the part I am not ok with.

 

On 5/21/2021 at 9:19 AM, vampirelicker201 said:

Also - it shouldn't be about who pays more in tier - it should be about following rules. 

 

On 5/21/2021 at 1:47 PM, vampirelicker201 said:

This isn't a minor encroachment. This is blatant.  My point wasn't about anyone making exceptions, quite the opposite.

If items are placed purposely onto a public space to attempt to designate it as their own use or purpose - that's my issue.

In your own words, your issue is that these people have the unmitigated gall to not Follow The Rules. You don't allege that what they do hinders your travel; you apparently just don't like it that they aren't following your understanding of what "the rules for Mainland" should be. 

(As a side note, at this point I wonder if you know how to check parcel boundaries to see if they really are encroaching. Sure seems like Guy Linden did not think so.)

Here's the thing. You don't get to be queen of Mainland and tell others what to do. If you feel someone is actually doing something reportable, by all means, report it in the proper manner (which means AR to the Governance team). If you don't get the result you want, you need to learn to deal with it. I and others in this thread have told you how we do this.

THIS IS HOW WE ALL HAVE TO DO IT. Period. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Sylvia Tamalyn

[Evangeline Ling]

Sorta related to this topic...

I would like to find the best way to put out some off-parcel aviation lights. My first instinct is to go with Full bright plus particles but I suppose I could use some excessive glow with a flashing script...

Any thoughts... Or should I just use all of the above?

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

5 minutes ago, Evangeline Ling said:

Sorta related to this topic...

I would like to find the best way to put out some off-parcel aviation lights. My first instinct is to go with Full bright plus particles but I suppose I could use some excessive glow with a flashing script...

Any thoughts... Or should I just use all of the above?

 

[Rowan Amore]

5 minutes ago, Evangeline Ling said:

Sorta related to this topic...

I would like to find the best way to put out some off-parcel aviation lights. My first instinct is to go with Full bright plus particles but I suppose I could use some excessive glow with a flashing script...

Any thoughts... Or should I just use all of the above?

you don't know where I live, right?  😬

 

[Rowan Amore]

10 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

THIS IS HOW WE ALL HAVE TO DO IT. Period. 

 

[LilithLamia Vortex]

22 minutes ago, MoiraKathleen said:

I've been trying to visualize this situation, though from what I understand so far, I have not come across this type of situation, nor do I recall reading complaints of this particular type of situation in the forums. 

Generally when people experience or complain about encroachment, it's either a neighbor whose objects are encroaching into their parcel, or it's some type of encroachment into a LL protected area (generally a road or water channel) where the objects encroaching are not phantom, and those objects do actually block or stop others from using the LL road or water channel as designed. 

The way I read the initial posts by the OP led me to think that the items were phantom and were not in themselves, blocking use of the LL protected area.  If the items are NOT phantom, then that would seem to be stronger grounds for an Abuse Report (and be sure to be clear, in the abuse report, about which conditions of the TOS you feel are being violated).  

As far as other incoming or outgoing planes that use the LL protected area, I wouldn't see that as any type of TOS violation, especially if the LL area is a roadway or a water channel, which are generally expected to have vehicles, etc., traveling along them.  (Just curious - is there a Rez Zone that is close to there?) 

It's hard for me to dintinguish between what might be a TOS violation that interferes with the use of the parcel and the adjoining LL protected area, and what might just be a matter of principle. From situations I read about in the forums, and things I have heard from other residents, it seems to me that outside of some very serious types of transgressions, many other things are not completely black and white. 

Thanks for your relevant post  - 

To clarify this because at some point, all of the information was twisted, misread or misrepresented.

I have a small parcel that has water access on one side to a Region that is completely owned by LL. Another side has complete access to a Route. The third side is my parcel. That one water side is very small and it's intent is for easy access to the LL regions that are public water use.

The area that my neighbor has denoted as their "water landing strip" for their parcel, is in fact, on Linden owned land. 100%. It is very easy to see the designation. Anyone is free to use that as they like, of course - no argument whatsoever on that. Assuming all of us that purchased our land that touches that region, was for free and clear water access.

The issue, is that the entire space that is access to my parcel for water entry, has this huge landing strip almost as if to say anyone else that may want to utilize that space - it is off limits to us other parcel owners. Am I supposed to "watch out - incoming plane" - if I am running my virtual toys about in that space? It is a narrow space and necessary for adjacent parcels to use when trying to reach the vast LL "ocean".

I filed a few requests in world - and two tickets. Guy Linden is not complete with the assessment I assume, since nothing has been responded to yet.

Literally the only reason I reached out here, was to see if anyone had the same kind of issue and how it was handled - not to be brow beat over looking for a variety of answers from a variety of people. (not in response to you, rather those who are at this point, irrelevant)

[Kyrie Deka]

@vampirelicker201You may be surprised that many many of us have at one time or another lived on a parcel we have such high, heavenly visual and use hopes for, only to be clobbered (visually or with lag, even "too many avis in region try to go to the parcel you pay for again later") by something that just crushes our hopes for the parcel...

There are only three answers.  Know you're hoping for better, others including me have also in the past.  But there are only three, and you already heard em:  (1) beg other user to give in, (2) file AR, or (3) pack up the U-Haul truck and find yourself another parcel.  And yes, even pretty-penny-spent parcels.

So sorry there isn't better options.  Seriously, combined expertise in this thread alone is immense.  It is what it is.  Expect more from SL, and you're setting yourself up for some disappointment.

I had one parcel I loved - until I realized right-quick I was going to get the "too many avatars already there" reject when I tried to TP (or login home) to the very parcel I had invested in!  I tried to hang in there, accept the deal, ask around.  But there are limitations to SL like it or not, and that includes whether a Linden will decide to enforce what *you* have determined is just.  In my case, I asked myself how much was THAT parcel worth to me if I cannot even tp to my own home more than half my attempts...  Answer was zippo, zero, nothin.   I found a parcel even better and moved, but I sure did some *very specific* personal research before I laid down any Linden for another parcel.  Little lessons learned, better with each move.

Last mention is, and I am not saying this is you at all I wouldn't know, but it surprises us sometimes how our *neighbors* may be putting up with something(s) about *our* stuff and usage too.  I mean, I tell myself it is always worth considering that, maybe my neighbor thinks my visuals are in their way now etc... etc.  None of us ever thinks we are the issue.  Most of us wouldn't be a bad neighbor on purpose.  But sometimes we find out our neighbors have been VERY nice about not gettin angry with us about how our visuals or usage has really dented THEIR use of their parcel heaven.  

Best option, always if options 1 and 2 not workin for ya, believe me, is to do your research and then move to another parcel.  Once you move, you'll never give this frustration one second of SL time and your life will be much much better for it *poof*

[Rabid Cheetah]

You've yet to answer what the status of the ticket is -- note that that's a completely different thing than whether or not a Linden has entered a comment yet.  Either way, though, your whining here, and rudely accusing a well-respected forum user as being a troll, is pointless.  Either the ticket is closed, or it's still pending.  If it's still pending, well, you should just wait to see what the final resolution will be.  It could turn out that the Airstrip of Evil will be returned to its owner.  If the ticket is closed, then Linden Labs looked into it, and felt it wasn't a big deal.  Either way, nattering on about it here serves no purpose.

You've also yet to state whether or not the Evil Airstrip of Gloom and Doom (from now on to be referred to as "EGaD!") is a physical object that actually blocks traffic, or is a phantom object that does no harm and should just be derendered if it's really that unsightly.

What Kyrie said about researching a place before you buy it is correct.  Especially if you're going to blow two hundred bucks on it.  Did you not think to stand by the road, look out across the parcel, and say, "Egad!  What is THAT?!?!?!  An EGaD?!?!?!?"  Or was it not initially there (though you've said nothing to indicate this).

Finally, please don't even use the term "troll" or "trolling" if you don't even know what trolling actually is.  It makes people not want to help you.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/troll

Not this:

 

 

Rather, THIS: 

 

 

 

[Aethelwine]

11 hours ago, vampirelicker201 said:

The issue, is that the entire space that is access to my parcel for water entry, has this huge landing strip almost as if to say anyone else that may want to utilize that space - it is off limits to us other parcel owners. Am I supposed to "watch out - incoming plane" - if I am running my virtual toys about in that space? It is a narrow space and necessary for adjacent parcels to use when trying to reach the vast LL "ocean".

 

The answer is yes and of course. The fact you paid a lot for the parcel doesn't confer any additional rights on you to someone that was given the land. When using a public space it is incumbent on both parties to look out for oncoming traffic to avoid a collision.

Landing strip lights sound a little odd in that space and aesthetically channel marker buoys might be more appropriate, so a way to deal with it might be to suggest the owner of the landing strip lights replace them with regulatory marker buoys, maybe like these, it wouldn't even cost them anything.

[Tor Karlsvalt]

It's my understanding that some groups around the Blake, NYC and USS and probably others had agreements when the Blake was created and they made a considerable investment in Second Life.  You might be encountering one such agreement.    If so, they have been granted a right to Rez, and use the waterway.  

[anniebumpkins]

I had a somewhat similar issue on my beach parcel, which is surrounded by other businesses/rentals/public areas, but -I- was the problem because I was putting waves in the middle ocean/waterway and it turned out that wasn't public waterway, but part of my neighbor's parcel across from me LOOOL (I was still pretty new...I'm STILL pretty new...). They weren't fond of me doing this, but we talked and worked it out (I made the waves smaller, put them entirely on my beach) and now we're good SL friends! Communication is so important. Beyond that, my neighbors and I on my mainland home parcel often have issues with each other's objects floating over or pets wandering over, but again-communication, we figure it out. I'm sorry your neighbors don't seem willing to discuss the issue and come to a compromise, I find that's usually the best way to deal with these issues, may even be worth another try to reach out and see if there isn't anyone in the parcel group or something that'll be willing to talk? Apart from this the steps suggested are the best way to go if communication ain't happening. Like others have said Mainland can be a bit of a lawless area, which can be both a pro and a con. Skydomes/skyboxes can be a good alternative for more privacy and less neighbor visuals, but also (again parroting) a private island or parcel therein may be better suited to what you're looking for. I feel you though, this stuff can get complicated and tiring. I hope you're able to work something out!! 

[LilithLamia Vortex]

@Rabid Cheetah I have been very kind in my responses given the "Mean Girls" attitude that you and your buddies seem to want to dish out in this post. 

Honestly, I don't need you or their help if that is what comes of it aside form the fact that not one of you have mentioned anything that I hadn't already done or considered. You gals need to really move along since at this point, all you are doing is gaslighting, trolling (yes, trolling) and otherwise instigating trash talk and poor behavior.

Plenty of folks have been able to offer up commentary or opinion without coming off as rude, accusatory or bitchy. You and the ones that seem to laud for each other are coming off just as that. I don't care how long you have been in SL, spent time posting in this forum or what it is you think you know - your lack of emotional maturity is evident. SL is filled with Heathers like you. No doubt, you will need the last word and will keep posting in here because it's the only entertainment you have for the weekend. Sad, but true. Thankfully, I am done and resent having posted in here for anything. You can have your sandbox back to yourselves.

I thank those who have shared information and opinion without tripping into some weird virtual gutter of bullying for the sake of their entertainment.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

And now we reach the unnecessary drama portion of the thread, where the name-calling commences....

I dunno about anyone else, but I think I've figured out who the problem neighbor is.  

[Rowan Amore]

On 5/21/2021 at 10:56 PM, vampirelicker201 said:

Sylvia - I read what you offered as suggestions - now, I am looking to hear from folks who have shared the experience, and how they resolved it. Thanks again for your persistent participation and opinions.

Trolling....In simple terms, trolling is when someone comments or responds to something you post, usually in a confrontational way that is designed to garner a strong, emotional reaction.

No one was negative in this thread until the above was posted.  

Most people who responded have had exactly the same issue at some.point in time on mainland.  There is no magic answer that is being hidden from anyone.  Even the people who responded 'nicely' as you said,  gave basically the same answers.

*grabs a handful of Sylvia's  popcorn.*

ETA.  Emotional maturity is taking advice from knowledgeable people even if you don't like it.  Emotional immaturity is going off on those same people because you didn't get the response you wanted.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Rowan Amore

[Rabid Cheetah]

3 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

ETA.  Emotional maturity is taking advice from knowledgeable people even if you don't like it.  Emotional immaturity is going off on those same people because you didn't get the response you wanted.

 

[Rabid Cheetah]

3 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Trolling....In simple terms, trolling is when someone comments or responds to something you post, usually in a confrontational way that is designed to garner a strong, emotional reaction.

Trolling is posting stuff you don't even care about so as to get a lot of people riled up, just for the "lolz".  The earliest example of this I can think of is way back in the '90's, when the term "trolling" first emerged (and again, the term has nothing to do with mythical beings, 1970's dolls, or Dungeons & Dragons, but rather from an analogy to "trolling for fish"), when the folks in a Usenet group known for posting outlandish things decided it would be "fun" to invade another Usenet group.  They picked "alt.cats", and began posting requests for cat-meat recipes, as well as a rather detailed description of a supposed cat owner wondering if they should stimulate their female cat with a Q-tip or let it continue to suffer being in heat.  The recipe request was met with the anger you'd expect;  The request for feline sexual health advice turned into a serious discussion among alt.cats regulars, much to the delight of the invading Usenet group  -- alt.humor?  alt.darkhumor?  I forget which group did this.

So that's trolling.  Merely being confrontational, especially when you are serious and not doing it for "lolz", is called "flaming".

I've yet to see any actual trolling going on in the forums.  Nor is there an Evil Cabal of Mean Girls here.  If there is, you can certainly join, so long as Sylvia says it's OK.  😄

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Rabid Cheetah said:

Trolling is posting stuff you don't even care about so as to get a lot of people riled up, just for the "lolz".  The earliest example of this I can think of is way back in the '90's, when the term "trolling" first emerged (and again, the term has nothing to do with mythical beings, 1970's dolls, or Dungeons & Dragons, but rather from an analogy to "trolling for fish"), when the folks in a Usenet group known for posting outlandish things decided it would be "fun" to invade another Usenet group.  They picked "alt.cats", and began posting requests for cat-meat recipes, as well as a rather detailed description of a supposed cat owner wondering if they should stimulate their female cat with a Q-tip or let it continue to suffer being in heat.  The recipe request was met with the anger you'd expect;  The request for feline sexual health advice turned into a serious discussion among alt.cats regulars, much to the delight of the invading Usenet group  -- alt.humor?  alt.darkhumor?  I forget which group did this.

So that's trolling.  Merely being confrontational, especially when you are serious and not doing it for "lolz", is called "flaming".

I've yet to see any actual trolling going on in the forums.  Nor is there an Evil Cabal of Mean Girls here.  If there is, you can certainly join, so long as Sylvia says it's OK.  😄

The definition was from the dictionary.

[Rabid Cheetah]

3 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

And now we reach the unnecessary drama portion of the thread, where the name-calling commences....

I dunno about anyone else, but I think I've figured out who the problem neighbor is.  

Exactly.  Only one person is being "rude, accusatory or bitchy", and only after folks did offer help and ask qualifying questions to get to the bottom of what's going on.  Suffice it to say she's quickly earned a spot on my list of forum folks I won't bother talking to anymore.  And you beat me to it with the popcorn picture lol

[Rabid Cheetah]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

The definition was from the dictionary.

Yeah, and I have to realize that languages change over time.  Sometimes I forget the '90's were thirty years ago.  I feel so old.

[Stephanie Misfit]

Similar issue to the OP, a neighbour has placed a large prim (encroaching) across a rez zone and part of the road and it looks terrible. Abuse reports ignored. I'm actually quite surprised because I've always found support to be good with this sort of thing.