[IDEA] No fly, No Tp continent

[Kelsey Bluestar]

This continent will be different from the rest of continents.

You could just tp to Infohubs and home, except this you have to walk or drive. At first that continent will be super-small to make sure its valuable and lively. Prims will be double. It will be growing in time after added more regions.

 

Question is simple: Would you buy a parcel on the continent?

Edited May 20, 2021 by Kelsey Bluestar

[Rowan Amore]

18 minutes ago, Kelsey Bluestar said:

This continent will be different from the rest of continents.

You could just tp to Infohubs and home, except this you have to walk or drive. At first that continent will be super-small to make sure its valuable and lively. Prims will be double. It will be growing in time after added more regions.

 

Question is simple: Would buy a parcel on the continent?

Might I ask why you wouldn't want fly?

[Sparkle Bunny]

Immersion, I guess? If you want to live in a realistic setting with realistic forms of transport, invisible jetpacks ain't one of them.

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Kelsey Bluestar said:

This continent will be different from the rest of continents.

You could just tp to Infohubs and home, except this you have to walk or drive. At first that continent will be super-small to make sure its valuable and lively. Prims will be double. It will be growing in time after added more regions.

 

Question is simple: Would you buy a parcel on the continent?

No.

[Marianne Little]

2 hours ago, Kelsey Bluestar said:

This continent will be different from the rest of continents.

You could just tp to Infohubs and home, except this you have to walk or drive. At first that continent will be super-small to make sure its valuable and lively. Prims will be double. It will be growing in time after added more regions.

 

Question is simple: Would you buy a parcel on the continent?

I would, for double prims and not crazy prices like Bay City.

[Istelathis]

I think it would be fun, I wouldn't want to buy land in SL due to rates I find to be unreasonable, but I would likely rent a spot.  I'm a bit eccentric like that though.  I like to travel around on the mainland and explore.  

[Claireschen Hesten]

So basically you want a continent that harks back to the early days of SL when you could teleport between telehubs not directly to a region the only difference being there wouldn't be a fee a for teleports. Would i buy land on this continent? without the ability to fly, no

[Wulfie Reanimator]

I can understand wanting something like this for nostalgia reasons or to "live a simpler life."

But how would the "no fly" thing be enforced in this hypothetical continent? Viewers are able to ignore land restrictions, and if scripts/vehicles are allowed, it would be very easy to re-implement vehicle-less flying even if LL went the extra mile to properly disable avatar-flight.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Lillith Hapmouche]

I wouldn't even visit it.

[Kathlen Onyx]

Certain RP regions have it set up where you are not allowed to fly but they do allow TP's. I imagine it would get pretty tedious though if your friend you wanted to visit was way across the region and was only able to be on for a short time. Unless you knew the region like the back of your hand, finding them might be a nightmare.

[Rowan Amore]

2 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

I would, for double prims and not crazy prices like Bay City.

Any mainland with double prims will inevitably cost a fortune.  Horizons, Nautilus and Bay City all started out reasonably priced.  Not so much now.  The parcel near me is 1024 and selling for 100,000L.  Even if someone doesn't like the theme on Horizons, that double prim is attractive and will push the price up.  I imagine even if it were no fly/no TP, it would still sell for outrageous prices.

[animats]

16 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Certain RP regions have it set up where you are not allowed to fly but they do allow TP's. I imagine it would get pretty tedious though if your friend you wanted to visit was way across the region and was only able to be on for a short time. Unless you knew the region like the back of your hand, finding them might be a nightmare.

Amazon River, the jungle roleplay, enforces this with an experience and an attachment. If you're not wearing the HUD, they eject you. Wearing the HUD, you can't fly, you can't cam (blocking objects appear in front of your camera and you get threatening messages), you can't teleport to anywhere within the experience area, and if you are underwater for too long, you drown. It's a good anti-cheat system.

[Kelsey Bluestar]

2 hours ago, Claireschen Hesten said:

So basically you want a continent that harks back to the early days of SL when you could teleport between telehubs not directly to a region the only difference being there wouldn't be a fee a for teleports. Would i buy land on this continent? without the ability to fly, no

Some gamers are missing golden era of games. It was between 2002-2010. Blizzard's World of Warcraft Classic, Jagex's Runescape Old School, Everquest 2 Time Locked Expansion. Remasters of old games like Age of Empires 2, Resident Evil, Nier, Wizards of the Coast's Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale etc etc...

I meant updating game dynamics brings more players but dissatisfied rest of them. Some people demands more realistic Second Life, more realism comes with more randomness and fun. I dont say this is going to be great, maybe nobody likes it that's why i like to discuss that kind of thoughts.

[RaynaAnna]

"... realistic setting with realistic forms of transport"
I'd rather stay in rl for realism.
So no, even with prims at 0.5L$

[ArgontheDevil Ormega]

I would have about as much use for it as I have for Bellesaria, which is to say none whatsoever.

[Rabid Cheetah]

I would not even visit a place that disabled my ability to type "tph" to instantly teleport home if I found myself in a crappy situation.  Same deal for any place where I can't fly, though Firestorm overrides that, thankfully.  I also don't tend to stick around places that have a set teleport landing spot, as this overrides the viewer's "double tap to tp" setting.

This concept isn't needed, even for those that want something fully immersive or harkening back to the old days.  Just because we can now fly and teleport doesn't mean we have to.  Every time I make a GTFO run I'm pretending I gotta drive, for example.  My professional view on software design is to give users as many features as you can and let them decide how they want to use it.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Rabid Cheetah

[Polenth Yue]

No. I'm someone who walks most of the time, but it's very easy to get stuck in places. No fly and teleport means getting stuck is the end of the journey. It also means that when someone's no-warning orb throws me back home, that's the end of that. Plus there's no way to take a break and start back at that point later.

It also has to be said that if you hype up the realism of an area, I'm going to assume it's human-only and fantasy/science fiction is banned. This is not very fun for me.

Ultima Online tried an adventure-only area with fixed starting points. People went to get their widgets from killing the right monster, then left again. It was a pain to really explore. People like to say they want things because old games did it, but there are reasons why these things were left in the past. The nostalgic dream is a lot better than the reality of what it was like.

[Prokofy Neva]

12 hours ago, Kelsey Bluestar said:

This continent will be different from the rest of continents.

You could just tp to Infohubs and home, except this you have to walk or drive. At first that continent will be super-small to make sure its valuable and lively. Prims will be double. It will be growing in time after added more regions.

 

Question is simple: Would you buy a parcel on the continent?

This was already done years ago, and you missed it.

When the Lindens first created Heterocera in about 2005 (17 years ago!), they didn't put in any telehubs and made Linden forests that could not be removed but didn't count on your prim count. There was this bucolic vision of a grassy paradise, etc. They did this because of a small but vocal minority of forums-dwellers and close friends/Linden alts who fought telehubs for economic and aesthetic reasons and resented newcomers like Anshe and Blue who were making a killing with telehub stores.

Yes, this was in the era before p2p teleporting. So it was very hard to get to this continent without any telehubs! You literally had to fly thousands of meters over the Linden seas, often stalling as getting across void sims could be very hard and laggy. A brisk business in boats and planes began on the coast of the colour sims. I made a rentals where you could log into that continent so you could overcome this difficulty.

Those of us who actually bought land on the auctions (they had whole sims on the auction back then) protested because we could not make businesses or rentals or even just private homes with this inconvenience of no public transportation. It was like an American suburbia where often there aren't even buses and if you don't drive you are stuck. Some people loved the idea of others maintaining this dream for them, like they love you to tier their view. But they wouldn't pay for it themselves, so it was not viable.

Again, the people who romanticized this teleport-free continent themselves did not pay tier on it. We kept pointing this out to Philip Linden and Robin Linden back in that era. We called meetings with them and indicated the total of our purchasing power on this continent, and urged the Lindens to compare that to the forums voices.

The Lindens ideologically loved these hippie ideals ("All watched over by machines of loving grace") but they had to pay their bills, too. Gradually they installed telehubs, in Iris and Hyles at first.  There was nothing complicated about such telehubs at all (you stick a landing disc on the land just as you do on private islands to make a landing) and they could opt to make bigger and more spacious builds with more land around them, as they did with Iris and the Moth Temple -- they didn't have to be avatar traps like Fuji, a perennial oldbie punching bag -- in fact Linden telehubs in Brownlee and Moma which were literally all forests proved this point.

There was this furor among oldbies with stores far from telehubs that land barons and those who rented from them they were grabbing business away from the early adapters -- that, more then the actualities of lag (only true of a few telehubs) caused them to fight telehubs and succeed ultimately in getting them removed. But ultimately, because they did not put their money where their mouth was, the Lindens gave up this dream. They also realized to keep all those trees rooted they had to use up a lot of untiered land. So they got rid of that idea, too, except for a few sims you can still find with "old growth Linden forest" nearly or completely covering them.

The Lindens likely knew they were going to put in p2p eventually, but they had not yet revealed this to anybody. Eventually people like Anshe figured it out when they saw the new focus on maps, and started dumping telehub land. The Lindens began to be accused of bait and switch and finally made a deal to buy back all the telehub land people wanted to sell for $5/m (a fraction of what was spent on it at auction), or you could opt to have your group put on the telehub and make them into infocenters (which I did in Ross).

So if you want to actualize your dream of Endless Forest, buy yourself 10 or 20 or 100 islands and make a continent. Don't put in the telehubs that usually go in islands. String them together, and turn off fly. See how many customers you get with this set-up and whether you can make tier.

Do that before you impose this utopian ideal that rapidly becomes a dystopia on other people, and make Lindens or land dealers pay for it.

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Prokofy Neva

[MoiraKathleen]

There is no need to make a special new continent that restricts flying or TP'ing.  If someone doesn't want to fly or TP,  that's a  personal choice and they should be able to restrict themselves in how they choose to travel (rather than relying on it being system enforced).   All the mainland continents have roads.  If one really wants to be that immersive all the time, they just need to get a parcel along a road on one of the mainland contintents (or in Bellisseria) and then choose to walk or drive (or ride a horse) everywhere.   

 

[Rabid Cheetah]

And once again an interesting thread gets derailed by grumbling about hippies.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

I have to fly up to see the surroundings,  I do not rent/buy anything without being able to check out how everything is configured,  I'm not big on camming around either,  call me old fashioned.

[SarahThe Wanderer]

Yes, I would buy a land there, sounds interesting and more adventurous.

Edited May 22, 2021 by SarahThe Wanderer

[Prokofy Neva]

21 hours ago, Rabid Cheetah said:

And once again an interesting thread gets derailed by grumbling about hippies.

Those who ignore or ridicule history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[Istelathis]

2 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Those who ignore or ridicule history are doomed to repeat it.

 

While I think it would be a fun region, and would probably spend time exploring it - I did enjoy your post.  I like reading up on the history of SL, there is so much out there that I missed out on.  I think the chances of it ever happening are slim to none, but the idea itself is fun to explore   Your post complimented the entire concept, and I appreciated it.  Not to discredit the humor of rabid cheetah, it gave me a laugh.  I don't think anyone believes this is something that will ever happen. 

 

- hippy dreamer

[diamond Marchant]

Actually there are people that do this as a style of roleplay rather than being in a virtual world that might enforce specific policies. There are boat cruising groups (e.g. Leeward) and flying groups (e.g. Skyward) and land travel groups (e.g. DriversOfSL) and vehicle oriented service groups (e.g. SLCG, yacht clubs, aviation groups) etc. etc.  The common theme is that we are traveling across the grid using vehicles and not simply flying  or TPing, except perhaps to get to some initial location.  In order to make this work in the Second Life provided by Linden Labs, the crossing of region borders must be as seamless as possible, otherwise, people get frustrated. Huge improvement was made last year but there is still work to be done. Also there must be an infrastructure of connected/protected water,  roadways, railways, airports and accompanying rez zones. Also, gratuitous banlines and orbs are an issue, as is encroachment on protected areas. This is why we must all continue to lobby for on behalf of issues that IMPROVE the travel experience.

I view Bellisseria as a HUGE success in support of getting around with vehicles. The travel infrastructure is excellent and the continents have been connected. Air travel is in a new era. And should a few more regions be added to connect Bellisseria to Satori via protected water, boat travel will be in a new era. Imagine rezzing a boat at your houseboat and sailing to the Blake... YaY!