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Disappointed by Para Roleplay


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I try to only post things like thoughts and feelings in a way that other characters could actually know or guess them,  but I usually also enjoy reading thoughts and such of people who post more like writing a common story, as long as the person gives me something to react to as well.

If I'm the only one trying to find a way to react to them without meta gaming, and giving prompts, it can become a bit tedious.

I imagine the reason that many people or roleplay region rules are categorically against emoting things that others couldn't know is because it can get difficult to keep in mind what your character knows about other characters, and what you only know as the puppeteer, and that it will probably lead to unintentional meta gaming, and maybe also to keep it at least para and not ultra para, so more people get a chance to post within their playtime.

I like para roleplay a lot, but I also like fast-paced roleplay. It's a question of what better fits to the situation for me. Also I guess my own post length depends quite a bit on what kind of character I'm playing.

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13 minutes ago, Meccha Suki said:

I imagine the reason that many people or roleplay region rules are categorically against emoting things that others couldn't know is because it can get difficult to keep in mind what your character knows about other characters, and what you only know as the puppeteer, and that it will probably lead to unintentional meta gaming

   I don't see how it's difficult. It's not as if people can't make it through books wherein thoughts, feelings, actions, and words are all used in conjunction. If the author of an emote fails to distinguish what's what, it's on them for being unclear, not whoever responds who 'accidentally meta-game'. 

   Besides, some feelings can be acted upon under certain circumstances - there's a little something called empathy, after all. If a person describes their character as being scared, for example, unless they specify that they manage to hide it entirely in their emote, it can be perceived as an option for whoever they're playing against to decide whether they pick up on it or not.

   Something one should always keep in mind, especially in RP situations that are 'public', is that misunderstandings occur and that the purpose of the RP is for all to enjoy, and that people throwing tantrums whenever they aren't being stroked the right way is their own issue, not anyone else's. Rules that are super-rigid coupled with people who are overly pernickety with them, to the point that they'll stop a scene to yell at people for the tiniest infringement, is no fun for anyone. In most cases it's better to just roll with it. 

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1 hour ago, Meccha Suki said:

I imagine the reason that many people or roleplay region rules are categorically against emoting things that others couldn't know is because it can get difficult to keep in mind what your character knows about other characters, and what you only know as the puppeteer, and that it will probably lead to unintentional meta gaming,

I'm inclined to say if someone can't keep their character and themselves apart, the best they can do is stay the *§)! away from any kind of roleplay and spare others their potential drama.

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Posted (edited)

I didn't mean anything like that, more ... technically. Difficult in the sense of my memory might not be the best anymore, and I probably can't remember what part of a character's posts my character now knows, and what not, maybe for one other character, or two, but not for many.

Like, my character meets theirs again next week, and asks how their cat is doing, while they only emoted how distressed they are about their cat being sick without me being able to know that, unless my character is a mind-reader, while I think they said it out loud. This is just a harmless example, probably nothing that will change much in the bigger picture, but there can be things that will influence the role play more significantly.

I try my best to remember, or I'll keep quiet or stay away, depending. On my side, l'll roll with whatever, if I posted thoughts and someone else reacted to them, I'll try to deal with it in a humorous way, or I'll ignore it, or whatever seems the best way for things to move on. Having fun is my primary objective. One of my first role play experiences in SL was being yelled at as a total newbie, because I did something that triggered someone badly, I posted like "Thera: I notice the man waving his hand and wave back." Turned out it was a cardinal sin to not post "Thera: /me notices the man waving his hand and waves back." Of course, I quickly noticed how most people post, and adapted. I also noticed quickly that some people are very serious about pretty much everything.

In any case, it's not a big thing for me, this or that post length, this or that style, I just need to know (notecards, or website these days), or be told (preferably gently, without yelling), and I'll adapt. Just musing about where people who favour or have strict rules might come from. 

Edited by Meccha Suki
clarifying use of "emoted"
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Part of the problem is that para RP is just so damn slow, by the time you've had a brief interaction with another character, that might have taken ten minutes in real time, it's wasted a whole hour while everyone waits for everyone else to finish their "magnum opus".

Years ago, before SL, I used to belong to a RP community which divided its roleplay partly through Livejournal posts and partly through direct messaging (we used Yahoo Chat back then). 

What we now call "para RP" was what we did exclusively on those live-journal posts and responses. But it wasn't in real-time. The post I was replying to might have been made hours ago. For real-time action we'd schedule a meetup in IM, and the RP there would be fast-paced, not more than a couple of lines at a time, with an immediate response.

SL roleplay happens when characters are actually there together in real time, so what we should be doing is the IM-style of roleplay, not the para-style. You can still put emotes in there but they should be just that - an emote, not a section of narrative prose.

Para roleplay is great, in its place. That place is forums and emails and long-running collaborative writing projects. It's not great for SL when someone is waiting for your immediate response (unless you are roleplaying by sending notecards back and forth whilst your RP partner is not present).

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On 6/9/2021 at 3:11 AM, Meccha Suki said:

I imagine the reason that many people or roleplay region rules are categorically against emoting things that others couldn't know is because it can get difficult to keep in mind what your character knows about other characters, and what you only know as the puppeteer, and that it will probably lead to unintentional meta gaming, and maybe also to keep it at least para and not ultra para, so more people get a chance to post within their playtime.

Orwar makes a valid point. 

The execution does matter and unfortunately, some people haven't quite mastered it.

On 6/9/2021 at 3:59 AM, Orwar said:

Something one should always keep in mind, especially in RP situations that are 'public', is that misunderstandings occur and that the purpose of the RP is for all to enjoy, and that people throwing tantrums whenever they aren't being stroked the right way is their own issue, not anyone else's. Rules that are super-rigid coupled with people who are overly pernickety with them, to the point that they'll stop a scene to yell at people for the tiniest infringement, is no fun for anyone. In most cases it's better to just roll with it. 

Misunderstandings is a regular occurrence in RP and the overreaction people have are ridiculous at best. Good communication can figure out a solution to a problem that needs solving. Scenarios don't always follow the plan and that is to be expected. Sometimes people forget that RP is supposed to be fun. 

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  • 5 weeks later...

Para- RP is just too slow, i do not have time to wait 10 minutes for something to post on something. because you do not need to describe what others see. its sl you are seeing what others see or its not there. you want to roleplay correctly make first a full description of the room, but after that use just one sentence and then let the other reply back. but that has to be like a ping pong, a minute tops.

The people i play with we sometimes make 3 phrases each in just one minute or even faster.

if not to roleplay anything you need 8 hours just to move from the entrance to the next room.

 

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On 5/20/2021 at 10:01 AM, ValKalAstra said:

Despite the sheer quantity of players, it's often strangely passive and an endless flood of "*leans against the wall, hood hiding face*".

That's a very common scene, I'd say. When it gets routine. And what will follow is ((Should I order pizza tonight?)) ooc taking over. It's probably tough to avoid as soon as you're in a group of players who get to know each other better and better. People start coming, subconsciously not wanting to RP but to just hang out with friends. RP lines for the alibi's sake instead of the actual RP's sake. And I know I've been just as guilty falling for this.

Edited by Noelle Delaunay
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The first rule of roleplaying is.... Do Not have expectations from others.

You will be disappointed, you will become disillusioned.

 

The second rule is... If you're feeling insecure about your roleplaying, the other person probably is too.

I find the majority of players are self-conscious and insecure about their roleplaying. If someone's posted a passive emote with no tangible hooks, they probably feel no one wants to engage with them... but they are putting it out there for anyone interested in approaching.

 

Personally I avoid group-paragraph scenarios, it doesn't work for me. But many enjoy it, so let them have it. The worst attitude people take is, 'I don't like how those people are roleplaying they must change and adapt to me!'.

 

And on that note I absolutely avoid people who're always 'bored' or complaining that a sim hasn't done anything for them. The question is always, what have you done for the sim, and how have you engaged others? During the occasions I've pro-actively roleplayed my character becomes overwhelmed by the number IC appointments and threads of RP to follow up on.

 

Finally, an alarming number of people take the attitude of only roleplaying among their friends. Because your friends are seasoned roleplayers and your friends won't let you down with substandard emoting. It's a ridiculous attitude and borderline metagaming. Enter a sim without friends then step out of the IC rental and meet new people.

 

Paragraph roleplaying is a creative writing experience which cannot be replicated by gaming systems. Both have their moments, but I'd prefer a good writing session and those are not easy to come by. They take time, investment and effort.

Edited by Mr Amore
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I see a few assumptions being made here... first that Para style RP is "slow", and second, that you need the opposite to be "fast".

Surely that comes down simply to how quickly someone can type, and how quickly the person responding has worked out what they want to say and how to phrase it?

I've RP'ed with people who posted great walls of text, and they've done it within 4 minutes, but I've also seen people take 4 minutes to type 7 words lol

Personally I am a bit flexible with my style, I can do full Para-style RP (though as an aside, exactly how many words / lines / letters constitutes a "paragraph"?), right down to single line roleplay, however there comes a point where regardless of how little I write, it's still going to take a while just for me to read what the other person types, digest it, and think of a reply.

A poster above mentioned posting in "a minute, tops" - unless we are talking about 5 word emotes, I'd have a heart attack trying to do that - would take me a minute just to correct my typos xD

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On 7/15/2021 at 4:19 PM, Eowyn Southmoor said:

Surely that comes down simply to how quickly someone can type, and how quickly the person responding has worked out what they want to say and how to phrase it?

I've RP'ed with people who posted great walls of text, and they've done it within 4 minutes, but I've also seen people take 4 minutes to type 7 words lol

True, although, from experience, my guess is that in the latter case it often isn't that they can't type fast but are either at work, or in PMs, or play more than one character at the same time, either on the same rp region or even different ones, and don't seem to have a problem with letting others wait for their 7 words for four minutes...or longer... while I don't envy their attitude, I do their internet connection and computer specs, and workplace 😂

 

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On 7/13/2021 at 3:20 PM, Mr Amore said:

people who're always 'bored' or complaining that a sim hasn't done anything for them. The question is always, what have you done for the sim, and how have you engaged others?

Point that cannot be stressed enough!!

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On 5/19/2021 at 4:54 PM, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

I think the problem stems from the amount of time it takes to write the paragraph, and consequently the amount of time it takes others to then read it, leaving very little time to actually react to it before the next poster posts.

This right here is exactly it. I tried Para-RP once. It didn't agree with me. I had to hit the snooze button several times before it was my turn. lol I find RP sims where your more in character and it's more like acting and playing the role of your part to be way entirely more fun and engaging mates.👍😎

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On 7/15/2021 at 11:19 AM, Eowyn Southmoor said:

A poster above mentioned posting in "a minute, tops" - unless we are talking about 5 word emotes, I'd have a heart attack trying to do that - would take me a minute just to correct my typos

I must say that if it takes you more than a minute to do more than 5 words you need to learn to write first.

All i am posting here is written in less than a minute.

In fact I though what to answer and then i have more time than I expected and, i do not expect others to be this fast, but .. (and this was really a minute)

but it seems as if someone where just watching a movie and answering whenever they want. (less than 2 minutes total including this)

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52 minutes ago, Fox Paragorn said:

 

I must say that if it takes you more than a minute to do more than 5 words you need to learn to write first.

All i am posting here is written in less than a minute.

In fact I though what to answer and then i have more time than I expected and, i do not expect others to be this fast, but .. (and this was really a minute)

but it seems as if someone where just watching a movie and answering whenever they want. (less than 2 minutes total including this)

If I need to learn to write then you need to learn to read too ;)  

I never said I need a minute to post 5 words, I said it would take me a minute to correct my typos. I've been roleplaying just in SL for 10 years, I'm quite capable of typing fairly verbose posts in a short-ish time.

My point was (which seemingly you missed), is that the time interval of your reply starts the moment the other person has hit enter. Before you even start typing your reply, you need to read their post, digest it, and formulate a response. Unless they have only posted about 5 words themselves, just doing all of that can take you to a minute right away.

You're also failing to take into consideration other factors, such as good old chat lag (if you don't see another persons post for another  30 seconds after they hit enter, that impacts your response time, or maybe a physical limitation the other poster has with their hands or fingers which slows them down.

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11 hours ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

If I need to learn to write then you need to learn to read too ;)  

I never said I need a minute to post 5 words, I said it would take me a minute to correct my typos. I've been roleplaying just in SL for 10 years, I'm quite capable of typing fairly verbose posts in a short-ish time.

My point was (which seemingly you missed), is that the time interval of your reply starts the moment the other person has hit enter. Before you even start typing your reply, you need to read their post, digest it, and formulate a response. Unless they have only posted about 5 words themselves, just doing all of that can take you to a minute right away.

You're also failing to take into consideration other factors, such as good old chat lag (if you don't see another persons post for another  30 seconds after they hit enter, that impacts your response time, or maybe a physical limitation the other poster has with their hands or fingers which slows them down.

I am not by any means a seasoned roleplayer. 

One way I would try to handle the delay between someone's post and my reply, was to have a vague idea as to where things may go and write a few sentences for my possible next post. Then when I saw their post, I would adjust what I'd already written to fit. Saved a lot of time, and if I occasionally had to dump the whole thing, and start fresh, nothing was lost.

Particularly useful when more than 2 people in a scene, when I could work in responses to what every others had written too.

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On 6/9/2021 at 12:42 PM, Maitimo said:

Part of the problem is that para RP is just so damn slow, by the time you've had a brief interaction with another character, that might have taken ten minutes in real time, it's wasted a whole hour while everyone waits for everyone else to finish their "magnum opus".  ...

What we now call "para RP" was what we did exclusively on those live-journal posts and responses. But it wasn't in real-time.

Right there, that's often what is missing in these discussions about para-RP,  that in SL it is done in real-time and THEN all of the comments about tedious, hey there are other ways of doing things in a 3-D environment, etc. fall into place. I think historically para-RP developed as Matty said (or similarly) and it made sense in that environment.

I miss role playing in SL. I had a good run with it many years ago and then found it impossible to find a good group that interested me. I finally gave up.

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