Character Arts and Second Life

[Chroma Starlight]

A. Bryan Loyall, "Believable Agents: Building Interactive Personalities," (School of Computer Science, Computer Science Department, Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA, May 1997)

🎭

It seems odd that this topic is not openly a part of the Second Life culture. Just imagine if it had been, how elevating this experience could have been for its participants starting as far back as 2003! Ideas like this could have been so helpful to some people, if only they had given visibility enough to be found by those who don't know they're seeking.

Is it too late for us to change how we think about and share a culture of how we author ourselves to best reflect both our potentials as well as the best possibilities for human cognition and organization that technologies such as the Internet and Second Life implicitly open up?

Would anyone be interested in using this technology as a means of developing their own ability to host more believable anthropomorphic agents within? 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Chroma Starlight

[GoSpeed Racer]

As an author I can understand the point being made and I very much agree. My novel characters and to a certain extent my SL avatar are agents.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

I'm not very clear on what you mean here, Chroma.

Are you talking about scripted bots and animesh NPCs? About role play?

You're not surely referring to how we represent ourselves through our avatars, are you? You sort of seem to be, in your second paragraph.

It seems to me that there is a world of difference between self-actualization and exploration, and the sort of "authoring" that is being referenced and discussed here (notwithstanding what Go says above).

Edited May 14, 2021 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

Can't quote the heading from the post,  but would "requirements for believable agents" cover fantasy characters? One or two of SL's residents sort of fall into that category.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Use your words, Chroma.

[Chroma Starlight]

14 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It seems to me that there is a world of difference between self-actualization and exploration, and the sort of "authoring" that is being referenced and discussed here (notwithstanding what Go says above).

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Use your words, Chroma.

You are certainly at liberty to make such distinctions, but I'm not sure reality does. 😹

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

B-b-b-but, we're in virtual reality, so different rules apply?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Chroma Starlight said:

You are certainly at liberty to make such distinctions, but I'm not sure reality does. 😹

I'm sorry, I was under the apparent misapprehension that you actually wanted to discuss this subject.

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

I suspect this is a challenge to debate via emoticons.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

I suspect this is a challenge to debate via emoticons.

I am beginning to suspect you may be right.

Well, that's one way to generate a "believable agent," I suppose. If you believe that cats laugh-cry.

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

/me raises his hat

[Chroma Starlight]

One of the big things that I wish had been different was the ability to actually be plural in a session on Second Life. That would have made things explicit. In fact, I think there was a widely-flaunted policy of one account per user that was never enforced, sending mixed messages and discouraging those who are harmonious from certain paths. But beyond that, people being kindly compassionate to each other and simply communicating this culture to those needing a clue would have gone so far to make the world a better place for everyone. I fear there's a temptation to defend some elite status, once attained, in spite of the collective need to disseminate the ideas. 

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

3 minutes ago, Chroma Starlight said:

people being kindly compassionate to each other and simply communicating this culture to those needing a clue would have gone so far to make the world a better place for everyone.

Poor old Mr Chamberlain, he tried this so assiduously and had his hopes dasheed.

SL allows us to explore pretty much the whole gamut of human interactions (bite, touch and smell obviously excluded), and that's a valuable asset. Why not explore the more dangerous emotions such as anger and conflict in a safe environment instead of bottling them up until they emerge unchecked in the real world?

[Madelaine McMasters]

May I restate the proposition as "How to live a lie and not get caught"?

Now we're in my wheelhouse!

[Chroma Starlight]

7 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

Poor old Mr Chamberlain, he tried this so assiduously and had his hopes dasheed.

SL allows us to explore pretty much the whole gamut of human interactions (bite, touch and smell obviously excluded), and that's a valuable asset. Why not explore the more dangerous emotions such as anger and conflict in a safe environment instead of bottling them up until they emerge unchecked in the real world?

Because Second Life is not a safe environment for such activities when all your friends, your first life home, and your first life career can all be stolen away from you by Second Life users and their agents, your own words in-world being quoted, recontextualized, reinterpreted before a county court judge and used to deny you legal due process, to declare you legally non-credible, to expose you to months long extraordinarily intense stress and pressure such that your executive function is degraded, just your ability to sleep is degraded. This is what happens when you explore in the "safe environment" of Second Life, historically speaking.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Chroma Starlight

[Theresa Tennyson]

27 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Use your words, Chroma.

I don't really think that's the problem here...

[Luna Bliss]

27 minutes ago, Chroma Starlight said:

Because Second Life is not a safe environment for such activities when all your friends, your first life home, and your first life career can all be stolen away from you by Second Life users and their agents, your own words in-world being quoted, recontextualized, reinterpreted before a county court judge and used to deny you legal due process, to declare you legally non-credible, to expose you to months long extraordinarily intense stress and pressure such that your executive function is degraded, just your ability to sleep is degraded. This is what happens when you explore in the "safe environment" of Second Life, historically speaking.

Chroma I'm so sorry that your SL experiences were used against you in this way, causing such pain and disruption in both worlds. I can't even imagine.

I don't think the world is ready to incorporate multiplicity, as most believe their 'talking mind' is totally the self, while their other parts are more unconscious.  I do believe that the only problem lies in some parts not being aware of other parts, and so-called 'singular people' fit that bill as much as someone whose memory lapses pertain more to the physical world!

Yes, how wonderful if all these facts could have been/could be more incorporated to our experience in SL (as well as RL).

Edited May 14, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Chroma Starlight]

Anyway! There is a great that might said on behalf of openness, if only because of the confusion it helps to preclude on whatever topic is at hand. I think there are universal themes relevant to everyone, and explored by Second Life, but it's like we were not given the operating manual to know how to actually make this thing really perform, and so it's also like so much time was lost. All for want of messaging. 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Chroma Starlight

[Silent Mistwalker]

❓❓❓

[Chroma Starlight]

The moment we began to unwittingly create a believable agent for Second Life, things got more lively, but that was like nine years after starting. It just became strange after a while, watching people seem to progress through Second Life on their individual paths, and yet there was no path lit for us. In retrospect, one or two paragraphs of carefully-selected text delivered by a trusted compassionate friend could have really altered the timeline. Something like:

"Hey, I have this idea. What if instead of Second Life being like some web-based business to sell software and virtual real-estate, instead it was like a community, a tribe, an authentic meaningful experience that, simply by being lived, will cause you to grow and change in, and I need to underscore and emphasize this in boldface italics, not-metaphorical ways, and that there can be an entire artistry of exploring and developing and becoming yourself at your full spiritual potential, while also maximizing your creative potential, ability to seek and find inspiration, your self-connection and awareness, your appreciation of the universal in all things, and then ultimately, perhaps, your love of existence itself."

Edited May 14, 2021 by Chroma Starlight

[Silent Mistwalker]

Once upon a time (2006/7) in a galaxy not so far away, there was still some hope. Since then it's all been downhill and finally hit bottom. With a resounding splat.

[Chroma Starlight]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Once upon a time (2006/7) in a galaxy not so far away, there was still some hope. Since then it's all been downhill and finally hit bottom. With a resounding splat.

Well.. yeah. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 minute ago, Chroma Starlight said:

Well.. yeah. 

So... are you gonna give up like the rest or are you gonna keep on truckin?

It may not be as enjoyable and enlightening as doing it with others but it's better than nothing.

[Chroma Starlight]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

So... are you gonna give up like the rest or are you gonna keep on truckin?

It may not be as enjoyable and enlightening as doing it with others but it's better than nothing.

Give up? The sun hasn't even fully cleared the horizon yet; the day's barely started. The journey is the destination, but there's no reason birds of a feather can't flock together.

[Polenth Yue]

43 minutes ago, Chroma Starlight said:

The moment we began to unwittingly create a believable agent for Second Life, things got more lively, but that was like nine years after starting. It just became strange after a while, watching people seem to progress through Second Life on their individual paths, and yet there was no path lit for us. In retrospect, one or two paragraphs of carefully-selected text delivered by a trusted compassionate friend could have really altered the timeline. Something like:

"Hey, I have this idea. What if instead of Second Life being like some web-based business to sell software and virtual real-estate, instead it was like a community, a tribe, an authentic meaningful experience that, simply by being lived, will cause you to grow and change in, and I need to underscore and emphasize this in boldface italics, not-metaphorical ways, and that there can be an entire artistry of exploring and developing and becoming yourself at your full spiritual potential, while also maximizing your creative potential, ability to seek and find inspiration, your self-connection and awareness, your appreciation of the universal in all things, and then ultimately, perhaps, your love of existence itself."

The confusion, and the reason you're getting the responses you are, is that this isn't what the thing you originally quoted is about. That quote is about making a computer program mimic a person in a believable way, without actually being at the point of being a person. All that matters in the original example is whether the computer program convinces people, not whether it is nice. There's certainly no expectation that the program will form a community or better itself, because the program isn't being designed to think or understand.

Virtual avatars controlled by people are a whole different thing. It's not a bad thing to understand that you are you, regardless of where you are, but that's exactly why the original quote doesn't work. You don't become a computer program because you're using a computer to communicate.

As for what being you means, if you want to explore that using an alt for each alter, I've not seen alt limits enforced.