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'Banned' while flying at Bellisseria


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For the most part, I can fly at Belli with minimal problems. I encounter an occasional security orb asking that I leave the area in 10-15 seconds or I'll be sent home. I just maintain proper heading and not think about it. Today, a new concept popped up.

I flew from the house to the Bellisseria fairgrounds. It's a nice trip to just get up in the clouds and look at the homes below. The outbound was text book. Flying home is where I encountered an orb that had a message I have never seen before.

[2021/05/12 17:27:26]  LH - Security System // V2.3.1: You are in a restricted area. Please leave within 15 seconds.

As I mentioned, I kept going and not giving it any thought. The next message shot me out of the air.


[2021/05/12 17:29:02]  Second Life: You have been banned for 60 minutes

I was well past the original orb warning. I have never seen a 'ban' notice while flying at Belli before (or anywhere else). I was sent back home.


[2021/05/12 17:30:10]  Second Life: Teleport completed from http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Fielders Choice/55/58/51

Can orb notices be set up to appear to be from SL? I was still in-world for a few minutes and then signed out and back in. Nope, no 'ban' here. I love flying at Belli for the majority of residents have an idea that some people may fly over their region and have absolutely no interest in entering their homes. 10-15 seconds is plenty of time to clear airspace.

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We recently added that new condition for using security systems to the covenant: "-Does not add names of ejected persons to the parcel ban list automatically" This is in response to situations wh

I still wonder about the people who are so paranoid. Most of my own land is open-rez, 20 minute autoreturn. Very little trouble. There was someone who tried to rez a house in my parking lot, and I tol

To reiterate, if not being able to restrict a parcel to group only, put up huge walls, teleport anyone home who tries to enter or give them a few reasonable warning time to leave before ejecting them

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4 minutes ago, Jerilynn Lemon said:

For the most part, I can fly at Belli with minimal problems. I encounter an occasional security orb asking that I leave the area in 10-15 seconds or I'll be sent home. I just maintain proper heading and not think about it. Today, a new concept popped up.

I flew from the house to the Bellisseria fairgrounds. It's a nice trip to just get up in the clouds and look at the homes below. The outbound was text book. Flying home is where I encountered an orb that had a message I have never seen before.

[2021/05/12 17:27:26]  LH - Security System // V2.3.1: You are in a restricted area. Please leave within 15 seconds.

As I mentioned, I kept going and not giving it any thought. The next message shot me out of the air.


[2021/05/12 17:29:02]  Second Life: You have been banned for 60 minutes

I was well past the original orb warning. I have never seen a 'ban' notice while flying at Belli before (or anywhere else). I was sent back home.


[2021/05/12 17:30:10]  Second Life: Teleport completed from http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Fielders Choice/55/58/51

Can orb notices be set up to appear to be from SL? I was still in-world for a few minutes and then signed out and back in. Nope, no 'ban' here. I love flying at Belli for the majority of residents have an idea that some people may fly over their region and have absolutely no interest in entering their homes. 10-15 seconds is plenty of time to clear airspace.

could be the same person owns the parcels under where you are flying and they are using a networked orb system that sends information to each parcel/sim.   we use one at the place where I am staff at,  so just a thought.

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Both responses tell me something I hadn't thought before.

Just the same, if someone has a home at Bellisseria and uses an orb, please (for the sake of the kittens) set up to allow one to fly over and not shoot down/send home. It's the precise reason I would stay away from Mainland. Got to be a mine field flying there.

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Posted (edited)

That last one that teleported you home is an AR-able offence. The others may also be if they were within a certain range of altitude (though I forget what that range is I think 400 to 199m but I may be wrong on that) as this area is reserved for aircraft.  People are allowed to use custom and third party security systems as long as they comply with the same settings as a LH security system. Certain things are prohibited:

  • Warning time less than 15 seconds
  • Any security within the dedicated airspace range
  • Teleport home

That last one that sent you home is definitely worth an AR, the others may also be if you were flying at the proper altitude.

The second message is from a different orb than the first one - note the name of the object. So the one that banned you for 60 minutes wasn't the original LH security system that caught you first time. It was someone else's third party security orb. The third message that teleported you home looks like it came from the same orb as the second message. You can use the location in that teleport message to pinpoint the offending security orb for an AR. 

It's really about time they reversed that decision to allow third party security and limited it to the LH security system only. It's the worst decision they've made in Bellisseria.

Edited by Maitimo
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16 minutes ago, Maitimo said:

It's really about time they reversed that decision to allow third party security and limited it to the LH security system only. It's the worst decision they've made in Bellisseria.

next time only white flowers and blue furniture?... forbidding everything doesnt make Belliseria more attractive.

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Just now, Alwin Alcott said:

next time only white flowers and blue furniture?... forbidding everything doesnt make Belliseria more attractive.

That's ridiculous and you know it.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Jerilynn Lemon said:

Can orb notices be set up to appear to be from SL?

The answer is no.

Security devices can be set to ban people for a number of minutes (usually user-settable), or permanently. They can use the SL land system to do it, so they don't need to keep a track on who is banned and for how long.

I sell 2 varieties of security devices (and one that's a combination of the two), and they do exactly that. The user has the choice to include a ban when removing an avatar and, if a ban in included, for how long or permanently. Since the ban is SL's land system ban, I assume that the 'you have been banned' message is generated by the SL system, but I hadn't noticed. So it's not that the security system's messages can be set up to appear to be from SL, it's that the ban message IS from SL.

Edited by Phil Deakins
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1 hour ago, Maitimo said:

 

It's really about time they reversed that decision to allow third party security and limited it to the LH security system only. It's the worst decision they've made in Bellisseria.

I have to disagree with you there.   While it's true that some abuse the system there are those like me who actually set their orbs to be laxer than LL's own.  I give 20 seconds' notice and keep my upper height lower than LL's minimum.  I'm not going to argue about why I want an orb - some use them, some don't - I'm simply putting the case for having a better option.

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21 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Security devices can be set to ban people for a number of minutes (usually user-settable), or permanently. They can use the SL land system to do it, so they don't need to keep a track on who is banned and for how long.

 

3 hours ago, Jerilynn Lemon said:

[2021/05/12 17:29:02]  Second Life: You have been banned for 60 minutes

I was well past the original orb warning. I have never seen a 'ban' notice while flying at Belli before (or anywhere else). I was sent back home.

I understand the timing ability, but for simply flying over the region, I was (lack of a better term) booted for an hour, assuming now they were referring to the original incursion. Simply flying over a certain area shouldn't support a 60 minute time out unless some degree of griefing was involved; over-kill if you will. The shoot down is enough to get attention.

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37 minutes ago, Jerilynn Lemon said:

Simply flying over a certain area shouldn't support a 60 minute time out unless some degree of griefing was involved; over-kill if you will.

It shouldn't, no, but some users are either not that sensible, simply don't care, or maybe don't know.

I've seen it where a user owns a small piece of land, has a home high in the sky, and nothing on the ground. BUT they activated the system ban lines. Those lines only reach up so far, and the home was a lot higher than they reach, so they had no effect at all on the home's security. That's an example of a user who is either stupid, or thinks, 'This is MY land. you can't come on it even though there is no sensible reason to keep you off it at ground level' - also stupid.

On the other hand, I came across a small piece of land (1024 I think) that had a security device which didn't allow time to continue flying across the short route and make it to the other side route before it kicked you out. A polite IM to the owner, saying what the problem was, caused him to alter the time so that flying over the land was no longer a problem. Perhaps a polite IM to the owner in your case might produce a good result. It may be that s/he doesn't realise that people can't fly all the way across without being kicked out.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Maitimo said:

It's really about time they reversed that decision to allow third party security and limited it to the LH security system only. It's the worst decision they've made in Bellisseria.

Initially the Linden Home Orb was a higher LI than the ones that most people use and so Patch stated in the forum* that the others could be used as long as they complied with the covenant. But he also pointed out that that practice would be reviewed if they didn’t comply. The LL orb has for some time now been as low LI as the others, if complaints are still forthcoming maybe that review will be following.

 

*Penultimate paragraph of initial post

Edited by Sister Nova
Added a little source :P
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Posted (edited)

The covenant has had some tweaks since Bellisseria was first commenced, but the security requirements have remained reasonably consistent. There has been much chatter in previous posts, including some clarifications as to meanings by LL staff. For everyone's refresher, the relevant covent conditions are:-

"== Security ==

  *Linden Homes do not have the ability to set your parcel access to group access only (which creates ban lines for everyone else). You can still eject and manually ban people by name in the parcel access settings in About Land options.

  *Security devices are only allowed if they comply with the following restrictions:
     -Minimum of 15 seconds warning time (no shorter)
     -Eject from parcel only (not teleport them home)
     -Effective range cannot include the airspace between 400m and 2000m (to allow for people to fly overhead but not in the airspace where skyboxes are allowed)
     -Does not add names of ejected persons to the parcel ban list automatically

If you are uncertain, there is a free security system provided in the Linden Homes Content Pack. It does not have the ability to be set in a manner that does not comply with these restrictions. Click on the house controller outside of your parcel (the one used for changing house models) to get the most current content pack sent to you."

 

The actual effect of these is that NO action should be automatically triggered between 400 - 1000m, but I wouldn't get too annoyed about just a message (pointless as it is; I KNOW I'm flying over someone's parcel - I'm allowed to!). "Effective range cannot include the airspace between 400m and 2000m ". The orb IS being effective if it sends out a message.

I sympathise with @Garnet Psaltery. The freedom IS there to use your own orb, and should not be taken away, Unfortunately, freedom goes hand-in-hand with responsibility, and it's the "responsibility" bit that eludes too many people. Call it ignorance, if you will, or whatever other excuse you might like to come up with. It doesn't matter what you call it. As all lawmakers eventually discover, when something becomes a problem to the greater society, laws have to be made (which doesn't solve the problem, but makes prosecution a bit easier). 

It would be very helpful if new occupants of Bellisseria were to read and act upon the covenant requirements though. Too much to ask? It seems so sometimes!

 

 

 

Edited by Odaks
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Odaks said:

 

I sympathise with @Garnet Psaltery. The freedom IS there to use your own orb, and should not be taken away, Unfortunately, freedom goes hand-in-hand with responsibility, and it's the "responsibility" bit that eludes too many people. Call it ignorance, if you will, or whatever other excuse you might like to come up with. It doesn't matter what you call it. As all lawmakers eventually discover, when something becomes a problem to the greater society, laws have to be made (which doesn't solve the problem, but makes prosecution a bit easier). 

It would be very helpful if new occupants of Bellisseria were to read and act upon the covenant requirements though. Too much to ask? It seems so sometimes!

 

Well, it's LL's choice ultimately as to what we use so if third-party orbs are to be banned then I apologise in advance to people flying over my parcel who get caught by the Linden security where they would have escaped mine. :/ 

Edited by Garnet Psaltery
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Before I came back to SL because of lockdowns, I'd been out for a couple of years. In that time, LL produced Bellisaria for Linden Homes. This thread has taught me something about it that I can put to good use.

One of the security devices that sell protects up to 9 levels in a parcel's vertical column, or the whole parcel all the way up. The covenant information in this thread (don't secure between 400m and 2000m) has shown me that it's ideal for security in Bellisaria. So I'm going to add a feature for Bellisaria dwellers that will cause it to automatically leave that level alone. I'm not sure about everything yet - it only just occurred to me - but a 'Bellisaria' on/off button can set some things, including leaving the protected level alone when the whole parcel is selected. Or maybe I can automatically detect Bellisaria parcels.

So thank you to @Odaks for posting that chunk of Covenant. It's that that brought the idea to mind - and given me something to actually do :)

 

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We recently added that new condition for using security systems to the covenant:
"-Does not add names of ejected persons to the parcel ban list automatically"

This is in response to situations where residents have accidentally crossed into their neighbors' parcel and then have visible ban lines facing them in their home. In some cases the resident abandoned their parcel rather than having to look at those lines constantly. One of the main reasons setting land to group access only was disabled at the estate level was to prevent visible ban lines. We felt that automatically banning anyone and everyone that a security device ejects is a little too unnecessarily aggressive and the practice is tantamount to that, the only real difference being they had to enter the parcel one time for it to take effect. 

People can still ban anyone they chose from their land. That has not changed. What has changed is there needs to be an active decision on the part of the owner of the parcel in each and every instance. It cannot be a passive automatic adding of all individuals the device encounters to the parcel ban list. If a security system is scripted to add people to the parcel ban list it needs to at the very least prompt the owner to approve the ban before it adds them. It's the owner's responsibility to review in each case if they really need to take the step of adding that person to their parcel ban list. 

I personally think it would be great if all makers of security systems would add a "Bellisseria" setting to their devices. Many people simply set out a security device at its default settings or just don't know any better. I would even go so far to suggest creators consider having their devices detect it is in the Linden Homes estate using  llGetEnv( "estate_name" ) and disallow settings beyond what is allowed in the Linden Homes covenant. It would save a lot of aggravation on everyone's part I think.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Abnor Mole said:

I would even go so far to suggest creators consider having their devices detect it is in the Linden Homes estate using  llGetEnv( "estate_name" ) and disallow settings beyond what is allowed in the Linden Homes covenant.

Thank you for that, Abnor. It's exactly what I want. I've already started changing my device - by adding a Belliseria button BUT, with that, a button isn't needed. The device can be automatically forced into not breaking any Belliseria rules.

Edited by Phil Deakins
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While I finish reading the thread I have one question that has been bugging me for years.

What is so wrong with being sent home by an orb? It beats the hell out of being sent to an overcrowded hub infested with trolls.

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Hmm, laying out one major reason to never move existing, Non-Bellissaria Linden Home users to homes there ... Right in this thread no less.

No Group-Only access? Yep, hard "Nope" there - There are times where one might only want their friends to have access and quite frankly using a Group to do so is one of the most flexible ways to do so.

Don't like how Ban Lines look? Debug settings, Show Ban Lines. Set it to false.

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4 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

What is so wrong with being sent home by an orb? It beats the hell out of being sent to an overcrowded hub infested with trolls.

You are totally correct there, but what LL wants is that the person simply be ejected to outside the parcel, which will put them on LL owned land, never sending them to any sort of hub.  It is considered the friendlier way of removing someone from your property.

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1 minute ago, Solar Legion said:

Hmm, laying out one major reason to never move existing, Non-Bellissaria Linden Home users to homes there ... Right in this thread no less.

No Group-Only access? Yep, hard "Nope" there - There are times where one might only want their friends to have access and quite frankly using a Group to do so is one of the most flexible ways to do so.

Don't like how Ban Lines look? Debug settings, Show Ban Lines. Set it to false.

And turn Bellisseria back into mainland wild west. No thank you!

 

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2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Hmm, laying out one major reason to never move existing, Non-Bellissaria Linden Home users to homes there ... Right in this thread no less.

No Group-Only access? Yep, hard "Nope" there - There are times where one might only want their friends to have access and quite frankly using a Group to do so is one of the most flexible ways to do so.

Don't like how Ban Lines look? Debug settings, Show Ban Lines. Set it to false.

Mainland will allow that and most private regions will typically allow that. 

Part of what LL wants for the Linden Homes is the 'community feel/aspect'.  

Their place, their rules.

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25 minutes ago, Abnor Mole said:

People can still ban anyone they chose from their land. That has not changed. What has changed is there needs to be an active decision on the part of the owner of the parcel in each and every instance. It cannot be a passive automatic adding of all individuals the device encounters to the parcel ban list. If a security system is scripted to add people to the parcel ban list it needs to at the very least prompt the owner to approve the ban before it adds them. It's the owner's responsibility to review in each case if they really need to take the step of adding that person to their parcel ban list. 

 

I have a very simple solution. Ban anyone that comes on your parcel without your permission. 

What?

Oh. Yeah. Right. We do that already.🤭

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10 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

What is so wrong with being sent home by an orb?

It completely ruins a traveller's experience. Totally. No recovery, back to square one.

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