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19 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I can't imagine every skin creators doing the exact same shading on their skins but ok.

 

No, not all but I don't have all heads plus it is rather uncanny that Orwar is showing what my problem is with the excessive shading and needed a fix for it but it doesn't elimate the heavy shading, but he apparantly likes it so I guess others do too.  

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On 5/8/2021 at 4:57 PM, Tattooshop said:

but it's just a skin, guys!

I have purchased male skins from Aeros because I like the detail work on them. However, they are older skins for men that don't exactly line up with some details on the mesh body and head that I use, and no scripted appliers are included. Before BoM that meant only a system avatar could use them.

With BOM, I can wear the Aeros skins AND fix things I don't like on them by adding system tattoo layers. I made my own face using photo references by texture painting in Blender. I fixed the navel, nipples, fingernails, and toenails. I also toned down the contrast of the skin using my own semi-transparent body textures. I purchased UA skin templates years ago. They are pretty good, but I like the body details more on the Aeros skins. I used the UA templates to create the semi-transparent tattoos that reduce some of the contrast and fix problem areas. I had to spend some L$ on texture uploads to get a good color match by a bit of trial and error.

The result is a fully legal and custom body skin which would not have been as easy for me to create without BoM. I have the added benefit of making my own system alpha masks for clothing. I rarely use the body's HUD anymore. Perhaps this doesn't appeal so much to those who are used to fully scripted (and usually NO MOD) ways of setting up their avatars. You're welcome to continue using what you like since BoM doesn't take away that functionality.

BOM.thumb.jpg.fa8a466b925f908b7cbc2ac88539723f.jpg

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8 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

it is rather uncanny that Orwar is showing what my problem is with the excessive shading and needed a fix for it but it doesn't elimate the heavy shading

CornyEvilBigmouthbass-size_restricted.gi

   .. Not even close. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Orwar said:

as the skin itself had pitch black nostrils which looked off due to my avatar's nose shape.

I get this too at times.  The nostrils too dark and not sure why.  

 

3 hours ago, Orwar said:

If things don't fit, it's not 'because it's BoM', it's because either:

  • The skin is designed for a different head/body than what you are using (i.e. 'user error')

The thing with EVO is it doesn't say which head it's for, not on the ones I've seen anyhow. 

Deetalez puts up a pack of free shapes to try with her EVO skins and one could try those - both shapes and skins to demo at the same time.  I don't know if Deetalez skins come with those shapes when you buy them though and I'm not inworld right now.  But doesn't having to put up shapes to try with skins sort of defeat the purpose of free to shape?  EVO could be a tricky one to fit if Deetalez is having to put shapes to try on the skins.  January could try Deetalez and her shapes and see how she likes them.

Just generally to this thread, also, for some skins that don't seem to fit...be sure to change the eyebrow shape which is usually included with your head pack and just changing eyebrows can make it fit better, not saying it will be a perfect fit but the eyebrows are a necessity sometimes especially if you had other eyebrows on for a different head that were set far too low.  For those who like to change looks as one poster said in this thread and then having difficulty, it could just be first of all you need to change to the eyebrows that come with that specific head.    Remember we have two shapes:  One for head and body and one for eyebrows.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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1 hour ago, KjartanEno said:

I had to spend some L$ on texture uploads to get a good color match by a bit of trial and error.

You can upload textures for a free trial prior to purchasing a texture.  You need to learn how to do that, it's very easy.  Ask in a building school or in the texture area of the forum.  It's basically you click LOCAL and then ADD the temp texture; you need to open the edit window first and then click on the texture and then click local and then pick what texture you want to temp view and then hit add.  I've never explained this so perhaps ask at a building school or Goggle how to upload a temp texture to local is waaaaaaaaay better than my explanation.  Once you like your texture, then pay for the one you like.  You can demo as many free ones as you like temporarily.

BTW, your avatar looks great.

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BOM is great. I tried it on an avatar and was impressed by the ease of using makeup and hair bases. 
 

I do have a problem with an avatar that has an applier skin and the creator has not come out with a bom version. I looked at the other bom skins from that creator and I don’t want to switch to them. It’s a minor issue that I can live with. Maybe it will be available in the future. 

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I think BoM is great! It got off to a shaky start, but once creators adopted it, it really took off.

Some lingering problems persist, but its mainly due to the perception it had from the start which was "YOU CAN USE ALL YOUR OLD SKINS AND CLOTHES*!" There's an asterisk because they may not always work the way they did back when there were just system bodies. Old skins and clothes will work, but they may not necessarily look right. 

A lot has changed since the days of only system bodies, mainly mesh bodies and heads. The thing with mesh bodies and heads is, the UV for them may not match the SL UV which is what BOM uses, so things aren't lined up like they used to be and for skins, that usually means the shading. God knows what tricks a creator used back in 2009 to make the skin look good, that also might make the skin look off on the new shiny X brand body and head.

People really latched on to the you can use your old skins and when the old skin doesn't work BoM suddenly sucks. The benefits of BoM have already been listed: You can layer up to 64 different tattoos for greater customization and it makes mesh body parts less laggy. Instead, its condensed down to the one thing that is not an absolute, which leads to people that were expecting to use their 2009 skin on their Lelutka head to end up disappointed.

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I don't like BoM - I LOVE it!! Honestly, I never liked appliers. Making them, storing them, and trying to make outfits using appliers was a real PITA. Wearing tattoos using an applier was basically full of fail due to alpha glitching. I love tats but gave up using them for years. It wasn't until we were blessed with BoM that I once again began wearing tattoos. 

Besides the obvious plus of not having to deal with the unavoidable alpha glitching, there is the very real case for how personalized you can make an avatar by using multiple tattoos to add skin details to your skin. This simply is not possible using appliers as you are so limited to the number of layers and of course you still have the unavoidable alpha clashing. 

In my opinion, BoM is the absolute best thing LL has done for improving avatar appearance.

For those who are insisting that applier skins "fit" better than BoM skins, you have only to get the same exact skin available as an applier and also available as a BoM skin to see that the skin fits exactly the same regardless of how it gets put onto your avatar. An applier skin may have a slightly shiner appearance or have pores as it can also apply materials to the skin, whereas, BoM does not do this. But that doesn't affect "fit" at all. Fit is based on the UV and not materials. If you are using an old system skin that was made for the default avatar and not a mesh body/head then the fit will be off. But it being off will be the same if that skin is applied using an applier or a system skin. Because a texture is a texture regardless of whether that texture is applied using scripts and an applier or using the baking service and BoM.

Now I will end my post by also saying that on occasion, rare occasion, I will use an applier to apply a HD lipstick. I could easily give up using HD lipstick though and never miss it. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

Wearing tattoos using an applier was basically full of fail due to alpha glitching. 

Now, I didn't experience this at all and have many pictures of Nanika's beautiful lace tattoo appliers she USED to have and that I would splurge on for my rez days and my real life birthday.  No I had no problems with alpha glitch and tattoos.  It was eyelashes but then I prefer my females with little to no eyelashes anyways so not a problem there.  BTW, Nanika closed her tattoo applier line and I don't know if she will open again for BOM.

But again me rambling on about tattoos.... I learned to make BOM tattoos for myself and it's so easy and fun.  That was the best part and then I made eyeshadows and lipsticks and some fantasy skins as well.   But, making tattoos...it's so easy...I'd recommend anyone learn.

One thing I am not sure about though is the HD huds going forward with BOM.  I am a Catwa girl as to me there is just something about Catwa and I cannot find a replacement so I keep going back to Catwa.  The Queen head is beautiful and will shape so many ways that is one thing I love about some of the Catwa heads, such a variety in shape-ability.  Again, the Queen HDPro I received was one of the best gifts I ever received in SL but that HUD.  Well, to make a long story short about the HUD, it's too time consuming and I've just had too many other projects.  A more stream-lined ease of use HD Hud I would prefer for any kinds of HD Pro or other HD types of heads going forward.  The applier huds were just easier to understand and I love the sheering ability on the applier system, that's is the worst to loose and I cannot use my sheering applier lipsticks on the HDPro Catwa Queen head, so lipsticks are a problem on that one.

Edited by FairreLilette
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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Now, I didn't experience this at all and have many pictures of Nanika's beautiful lace tattoo appliers she USED to have and that I would splurge on for my rez days and my real life birthday.  No I had no problems with alpha glitch and tattoos.  It was eyelashes but then I prefer my females with little to no eyelashes anyways so not a problem there.  BTW, Nanika closed her tattoo applier line and I don't know if she will open again for BOM.

But again me rambling on about tattoos.... I learned to make BOM tattoos for myself and it's so easy and fun.  That was the best part and then I made eyeshadows and lipsticks and some fantasy skins as well.   But, making tattoos...it's so easy...I'd recommend anyone learn.

One thing I am not sure about though is the HD huds going forward with BOM.  I am a Catwa girl as to me there is just something about Catwa and I cannot find a replacement so I keep going back to Catwa.  The Queen head is beautiful and will shape so many ways that is one thing I love about some of the Catwa heads, such a variety in shape-ability.  Again, the Queen HDPro I received was one of the best gifts I ever received in SL but that HUD.  Well, to make a long story short about the HUD, it's too time consuming and I've just had too many other projects.  A more stream-lined ease of use HD Hud I would prefer for any kinds of HD Pro or other HD types of heads going forward.  The applier huds were just easier to understand and I love the sheering ability on the applier system, that's is the worst to loose and I cannot use my sheering applier lipsticks on the HDPro Catwa Queen head, so lipsticks are a problem on that one.

Use can still use appliers on the catwa HD pro head.

Can I still use appliers on HDPRO?

Yes. HDPRO will take Catwa appliers (and Omega appliers, with the Omega relay for Catwa) for skin, lips, eyes, eye makeup OR brows (I’ll get into the exact specifics of that shortly when I explain the new Eye Mask area), and ears. However, the additional hairbase, blush, and neck layers have been removed from HDPRO. This means—for instance—that you cannot wear an applier skin and then put an applier hairbase on top of it. Nor can you wear an applier skin and blush or freckles. Many hairstyles come with a built-in hairbase look these days, but if you want to wear a textured hairbase with HDPRO then you will need to activate BoM and use a BoM skin and BoM hairbase.

As mentioned previously, with more and more of the grid moving to BoM, the focus of HDPRO is Bakes on Mesh, but Catwa has retained applier support for some areas of the head and improved it for those areas, too, as the Eye Mask area, Lips area, and Ear Mask area are all HD, allowing for much higher definition textures.

Note: You must be wearing the HDPRO Style HUD when using appliers.

 

The BLEND slider allows you to adjust the opacity of the lipsticks. Want a sheer, slightly-coloured lipgloss effect? Apply a lipstick, blend it down, then apply some materials shine.

 

 

I use a lelutka Evo head with BOM skin and HD lipstick appliers since I also like to decrease the intensity of some.lipsticks.  Same with eye shadows.  I do have to use a BOM hairbase but I prefer those too since most I can edit to match whatever color hair I happen to be wearing.

Edited by Rowan Amore
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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Yes. HDPRO will take Catwa appliers (and Omega appliers, with the Omega relay for Catwa) for skin, lips, eyes, eye makeup OR brows (I’ll get into the exact specifics of that shortly when I explain the new Eye Mask area), and ears. However, the additional hairbase, blush, and neck layers have been removed from HDPRO. This means—for instance—that you cannot wear an applier skin and then put an applier hairbase on top of it. Nor can you wear an applier skin and blush or freckles. Many hairstyles come with a built-in hairbase look these days, but if you want to wear a textured hairbase with HDPRO then you will need to activate BoM and use a BoM skin and BoM hairbase.

As mentioned previously, with more and more of the grid moving to BoM, the focus of HDPRO is Bakes on Mesh, but Catwa has retained applier support for some areas of the head and improved it for those areas, too, as the Eye Mask area, Lips area, and Ear Mask area are all HD, allowing for much higher definition textures.

Note: You must be wearing the HDPRO Style HUD when using appliers.

 

I've not read this but I tried and I click and move sliders and nothing and I tried many times just to see if I was doing something wrong.  Yes, I know I need to contact the group inworld about what-is-what with all these things on here that leave me even wondering what they are for.  I haven't even spent time learning universal neck even yet because I need to relax after this EEP debacle and my AMD GPU which are not compatible.   SL is just not relaxing for me anymore because of this problem of EEP and my graphics not compatible so I put everything SL aside for awhile.   Being a Dinkie I can do a little bit easier for my machine, so I guess I'm lucky I can at least be a Dinkie.  I don't want to blow out machine by trying to run EEP and the heavy mesh humans too much.  It's just not good for my machine anymore, sadly.  Dinkie's are super low triangles, about 13 thousand as opposed to millions for some humans.  So, I have that at least, for now.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

I cannot use my sheering applier lipsticks on the HDPro Catwa Queen head, so lipsticks are a problem on that one.

All Catwa applier lipsticks work on HDPRO heads. This includes HDPRO lipsticks, lipsticks created for the HD Lips add-ons for the Bento heads, and non-HD lipsticks created for Catwa heads.

All Omega lipsticks also work on HDPRO heads if you are wearing the Omega relay for Catwa. If the lipsticks you're trying are Omega ones and they're not working, despite you wearing both the Style HUD and the Omega relay for Catwa, then try the other Omega relay for Catwa that's in the folder. There are two, and depending on the lipstick you may find that one relay works whereas the other doesn't.

The main stipulation is at the bottom of what Rowan posted (which is from my HDPRO Quick Setup Guide) and that is: You must be wearing the HDPRO Style HUD when using any appliers on HDPRO heads. You don't need to have it opened; just worn.

The only exception with HDPRO is that the appliers created for HDPRO are not backwards-compatible with older Catwa Bento heads. You cannot use HDPRO lipsticks on the older Bento heads' HD Lips add-ons, for example. But all Catwa and Omega lipsticks will work on HDPRO heads, as long as you're wearing the HDPRO Style HUD when applying.

You don't even need to have Advanced Lighting enabled (which I seem to recall you don't use, as you don't like the 'shinies' it can give) when using HDPRO, unlike the requirement for ALM on the older Bento heads' HD Lips.

 

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5 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Now, I didn't experience this at all.... No I had no problems with alpha glitch and tattoos.

The alpha glitching occurred when trying to wear tattoos on the tattoo layer and stockings or any clothing with lace on the underwear or clothing layers. This was and is a problem where tattoos worn on onion layers disappear under hair, because nearly all hair in SL is made using textures with alpha channels. If I only wore short hair and clothing that didn't have any kind of alpha channel then I could wear applier tattoos without any problems. But who wants to be so limited? Fortunately, with BoM I can wear multiple tattoos and skin detail tats and never have to worry about my hair or mesh clothing messing up my tattoos or freckles, etc. Unfortunately, I still have the issue sometimes where my hair will clash with mesh clothing because the creator used a texture that contains an alpha channel. Though with having a lot of my alpha clashing frustration eliminated with BoM this problem with hair and mesh clothing is much less annoying. 

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9 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

The alpha glitching occurred when trying to wear tattoos on the tattoo layer and stockings or any clothing with lace on the underwear or clothing layers. This was and is a problem where tattoos worn on onion layers disappear under hair, because nearly all hair in SL is made using textures with alpha channels. If I only wore short hair and clothing that didn't have any kind of alpha channel then I could wear applier tattoos without any problems. But who wants to be so limited? Fortunately, with BoM I can wear multiple tattoos and skin detail tats and never have to worry about my hair or mesh clothing messing up my tattoos or freckles, etc. Unfortunately, I still have the issue sometimes where my hair will clash with mesh clothing because the creator used a texture that contains an alpha channel. Though with having a lot of my alpha clashing frustration eliminated with BoM this problem with hair and mesh clothing is much less annoying. 

You know I wear all hair styles, short, medium, long, updos (hair is my collectible I have so many) and I just never noticed that so I was wondering why.  But, I can say I do not wear stockings or lacey undies in SL.  I did that my first time years and years ago in SL when I was stripper and had all kinds of lingerie and stockings.  I was just looking at my Nanika tattoos just the other day on FLICKR and "remembering when" but I never encountered a problem.  Weird that.  

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Posted (edited)

Were it not for BoM, several of the avatar forms I have (some pictured in the album linked in my Sig, a few in one of the avatar threads here) would have been a real PITA and I sure as heck would have been taking up more inventory space making copies of parts.

ETA: Reminds me, I should get a snapshot of the results I've had using a newer femboi chest ....

Edited by Solar Legion
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I think many here confuse the skin creators esthetic with the effects in the heads.

Some creators is very fond of the "Kardashian" highlight and contouring. That is okay by me, but be aware that these skin effects is the creators choice, and will be the same for BoM or Appliers.

Skin creators who paint the inside of the nostrils black, or the inside of the lips a dark brown/red is annoying. Lipsticks does not go that far in, so when my avatar open her mouth to smile, it is a very dark line visible inside on the lower lip. I can get an inside lip corrector to fix that issue, if I love the rest of the skin.

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Izzies-Inside-Lips-Corrector/18821277

I correct a detail like this, because I disagree with the skin creators detail here, but still want the skin. BoM gives me the freedom to do this, because with appliers we had 1-2 applier slots provided, and when we had used them, it was nothing more to do.

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6 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

I think many here confuse the skin creators esthetic with the effects in the heads.

Some creators is very fond of the "Kardashian" highlight and contouring. That is okay by me, but be aware that these skin effects is the creators choice, and will be the same for BoM or Appliers.

... I can get an inside lip corrector to fix that issue, if I love the rest of the skin.

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Izzies-Inside-Lips-Corrector/18821277

I correct a detail like this, because I disagree with the skin creators detail here, but still want the skin. BoM gives me the freedom to do this, because with appliers we had 1-2 applier slots provided, and when we had used them, it was nothing more to do.

That store is great. I recently was looking at BOM skins to update my system body (yes, I have not updated to mesh...) and really was getting fed up with the repetitive look of highlights on the face. Looks really weird IMO, but I found a BOM skin that I liked despite that, and it wasn't expensive.I was able to make it look how I wanted it by getting a highlight corrector from that store. I was so happy:) So I think BOM is great.

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On 5/8/2021 at 7:17 PM, Orwar said:

   BoM is awesome. The ability to layer tattoos, hair, various skin imperfections and shaders, etc. allow for a much more complex avatar - whilst avoiding alpha glitches and lag.

THIS, is the biggest advantage of BOM:  avoiding alpha glitches.

Also, now all those extra mesh layers on the bodies can be made into separate optional attachments, lowering overall complexity. OR free it it up for "HD" textures, Like the eyebrows on LeLutka head which look so much better.

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In general, I realized that I am just an outdated conservative ascetic minimalist, striving for a minimum of attachments, but I should be grateful to bom, because whatever one may say, bom, although not a big one, but a step into the past, since we again returned to good old tattoo layers! Woohoo! :D

Peace! ☮️

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On 5/9/2021 at 2:16 AM, Tattooshop said:

Silent horror..

Bom is great thing ! The bom is easy to apply and there is no neck joint problem as long as the bom skin is uniform across the head and body. I will quickly take off the bom and put on a new one. Different applicators do not allow you to change them so quickly. they are difficult to use. although I also have and wear the ones that I liked with pleasure. SL has many possibilities to create your own wonderful custom avatar. And with bom it's cool, for a long time I have a lot of system skins and I have adapted many for the mesh. The only thing I don't really like is when you load it, you look at the scary old edited avatar for the grid for a long time until it is covered with a beautiful new skin)
The fact that you have applied many different bom layers does not mean that you have made your avatar more complicated as think a theme writer. Sl create bom has demonstrated the benefits of baking all the layers together as one layer, which is great.
Ears are a separate topic. if your hair is short or open and your ears are visible. it is important how they look. Ears are just as important as your well-groomed nails with a manicure) You and those around you can always admire the ears if you dress them beautifully. so many designers make ears as a separate part of the body and they make them cool, choose according to your taste with accessories, tattoos, different shapes and choose your desired skin tone or bom layer

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I love BoM enough that I've modded several bodies that don't even use the default SL body UV map to use it (though in various different ways - for a body that only uses one texture, the "lower body" could be the tail texture and so on...). It's simply so, so much better to use BoM for alpha cuts than the built-in slices most bodies have. It's excellent for stacking details, and general ease of use...

 

 

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13 hours ago, Tattooshop said:

In general, I realized that I am just an outdated conservative ascetic minimalist, striving for a minimum of attachments, but I should be grateful to bom, because whatever one may say, bom, although not a big one, but a step into the past, since we again returned to good old tattoo layers! Woohoo! :D

Peace! ☮️

Without BOM, a mesh body needs to be made from literally over a hundred separate linked meshes to allow the use of alpha cuts and worn layers, and these are controlled by a HUD that also has over a hundred separate linked meshes.

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For Underwear BoM can't be beat right now,

with pigs derezzing your cloths, you are nude and don't even know it, because the security is created by pigs.

Wear BoM undies always to make sure pigs can't see you.

~ Me

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