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On 7/22/2021 at 8:24 AM, Arielle Popstar said:

It would appear that in the UK at least, the numbers of vaccinated contracting COVID is about to overtake the numbers of unvaccinated contracting it. Regardless of whether or not there is a difference in the severity of the symptoms, both still appear to be able to transmit the disease to others so to me it sounds like people should be careful of both the vaccinated and unvaccinated who might be displaying symptoms.

[and some vid of a "wise" man]

 

the UK data is here: https://covid.joinzoe.com/

the numbers show

1.1 million people vaccinated with one or two doses
2,394 of 1.1 million reported getting Covid after 1 dose. Number of deaths: 1
187 of 1.1 million reported getting COVID after 2 doses. Number of deaths: 0

probabilities of getting Covid: 1 in 500 after 1 dose. 1 in 3,333 after 2 doses. 1 in 1.1 million of dying

total population of UK: 66.7 million. Covid cases to date: 5.6 million. Number of deaths: 129,000

probabilities: 1 in 12 of getting Covid. 1 in 520 of dying

so basically you (Arielle) by using the UK as a datapoint in this conversation are going off a personal philosophical view that gambling on a 1 in 520 chance of dying is ok with you, rather than taking the 1 in 1.1 million chance. And using this crafty man on the internet as someone to take your lead in this matter


not sure if you are a christian but if you are then a thought for you and anyone else who is a christian and is getting lured into the anti-covid vaccination trope

should you be the 1 in 520 and not the 1 in 1.1 million then when you stand in judgment before the throne of heaven then you will be asked to reconcile the bible teaching with your presence before god. The bible teaching is:


1 Corinthians 3: 16-23

16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?
17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.
18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become fools so that you may become wise.
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”
20 and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”
21 So then, no more boasting about human leaders! All things are yours,
22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours,
23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.

 

St Paul is talking about you here, christian person. You the foolish who listens to crafty people who pretend to be wise and lead you into foolishness. You the foolish who will not accept the facts, which is on you as the teaching says: "All things are yours". And in not accepting facts and using your ability to reason that is god's gift to you, then standing before the throne of heaven as the 1 in 520 then you have destroyed God's temple, you. And on this you will be judged

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I stand against Authoritarians who try to push Medical Apartheid.

The government has no business mandating anyone to undergo a medical procedure.

This should be a confidential matter between you and your doctor.

If you want the so-called vaccine hesitant to take vaccines in the future, convince people and inspire confidence in your professionalism and trustworthiness.

> Medical Companies - that means don't act like Pfizer and build up a bad reputation because it's much easier to lose peoples trust than gain it.

> WHO, don't spend months lieing and covering up for China, tell us masks are ineffective and it's racist to not let Chinese into our countries, only to flip on it when you can no longer cover it up.

> Fauci, don't spend your time telling us orange man lied whilst lieing to us straight faced that you were actually funding gain of function research in Wuhan.

> National Health Service, give people a choice of which vaccine they will receive as people do care.

> Social Media, Payment processing companies etc. Don't try to censor and hide the voices of those you don't like. It makes it look like you have something to hide. Calling yourself 'fact checkers' makes you appear to be an Authoritarian who thinks they are the 'ministry of truth'.

> Government. Don't give yourself or medical companies legal immunity from killing your patients. Showing you are willing to lack Responsibility or Accountability for your actions indicates that we should not trust you or the medical companies in case something goes wrong.

> Government. Don't try to coerce people into taking the vaccine through medical apartheid (aka. Vaccine passports)

It is the job of leaders to inspire confidence and build trust by being open and accountable. When a significant portion of a country does not trust the words of so-called leaders, health organizations or have confidence in the vaccine it represents a failure of leadership.

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On 5/9/2021 at 2:22 AM, Maitimo said:

I've had my first one (Astra-Zeneca) and it wasn't too bad at all. Felt like I was coming down with flu for about a day and a half but it never got as bad as actual flu, and wasn't bad enough to even consider taking time off work. 

Exactly the same here after the first and the second, however the second was a bit heavier.

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15 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

If you want the so-called vaccine hesitant to take vaccines in the future, convince people and inspire confidence in your professionalism and trustworthiness.

We're past that. Attempts to deflect with safety concerns is just a smoke screen and no different from refusing to use a condom because might not get pregnant anyway. 

The vaccine is clearly safe and effective,  opposition is clearly ideological and patience is in short supply.

 

The only thing that's going to be effective now is shame and social ostracization, to use a favored phrase from the right .. facts don't care about feelings.

We don't try and baby people who refuse to drive sober or without a seat belt.

Edited by Coffee Pancake
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4 minutes ago, Caroline Takeda said:

Seriously?

You are quoting a book that is almost 2000 Years old?

bible teachings tend to work with people who are practising christians. If anything it does help them to reflect on what they think the Word of God is. This teaching explains what God will ask of christians when they stand before him on the day of judgment in this matter

i say when not should, as being judged by God is an article of christian faith

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19 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

We're past that.

No you're not. You were never before that to begin with. At every stage along the way since the moment the vaccine came out people spent all their time trying to ostracize and shame those who didn't take it. And where did it get you? Nowhere.

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Just now, Extrude Ragu said:

No you're not. You were never before that to begin with. At every stage along the way since the moment the vaccine came out people spent all their time trying to ostracize and shame those who didn't take it. And where did it get you? Nowhere.

No.. it actually got quite a few friends and family members vaccinated.

It's amazing what denial of access to social events or grandchildren has accomplished.

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This is not my idea, but it makes sense: in the US it would be economically advantageous to simply pay people a thousand dollars to get vaccinated. I'd put a tight time limit on it, like two weeks for the first shot, and apportion the payout for the two shots somehow.

Think about it. If 100 million people did it, it would only cost $100 billion—a drop in the bucket compared to the whole pandemic "budget".

Sure, it's manipulative—way more manipulative than simply requiring a vaccine passport for access to anywhere public.

I'm all for "vaccine apartheid" if and when it works, but meanwhile a hundred billion or so is chump change in this context, and after this level of mollycoddling we can just ship the remaining stragglers to Guantanamo and let them fend for themselves. 

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1 minute ago, Qie Niangao said:

This is not my idea, but it makes sense: in the US it would be economically advantageous to simply pay people a thousand dollars to get vaccinated. I'd put a tight time limit on it, like two weeks for the first shot, and apportion the payout for the two shots somehow.

Think about it. If 100 million people did it, it would only cost $100 billion—a drop in the bucket compared to the whole pandemic "budget".

Sure, it's manipulative—way more manipulative than simply requiring a vaccine passport for access to anywhere public.

I'm all for "vaccine apartheid" if and when it works, but meanwhile a hundred billion or so is chump change in this context, and after this level of mollycoddling we can just ship the remaining stragglers to Guantanamo and let them fend for themselves. 

Those same people would object to their taxes rewarding the wrong people for getting a vaccine.

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27 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The vaccine is clearly safe and effective,  opposition is clearly ideological and patience is in short supply.

The only thing that's going to be effective now is shame and social ostracization, to use a favored phrase from the right .. facts don't care about feelings.

We don't try and baby people who refuse to drive sober or without a seat belt.

Well then what is this all about with the Vaccine adverse events, especially considering that the voluntary reporting system only reflects 1 in a 100 actual events and for these vaccines is only the short term events nevermind what will be discovered long term as to the potential harms. You have no scientific studies to support your opinions on their safety.

chrome_EQvkbUgKxt.thumb.png.313bc28da5d8dbdbb6839889190a4063.png

https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data

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45 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

We don't try and baby people who refuse to drive sober or without a seat belt.

I'm sure some idiot will try to explain the benefits of driving drunk without using a seatbelt now. Those idiots ought to be on everyone's ignore list now. I'm not sure how I missed the last one, but that's been taken care of.

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16 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Those same people would object to their taxes rewarding the wrong people for getting a vaccine.

Sure. Somebody other than me has to handle the messaging, but the idiots are already costing us a fortune and this may be the most cost-effective measure.

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18 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

You have no scientific studies to support your opinions on their safety.

Aside from us all obviously being alive and not dying from covid or the vaccine, yeah, nothing at all.

By the time you're happy with the vaccine the virus will have mutated to the point we will need a new one, and then you can do this all over again.

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26 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

This is not my idea, but it makes sense: in the US it would be economically advantageous to simply pay people a thousand dollars to get vaccinated. I'd put a tight time limit on it, like two weeks for the first shot, and apportion the payout for the two shots somehow.

Think about it. If 100 million people did it, it would only cost $100 billion—a drop in the bucket compared to the whole pandemic "budget".

Sure, it's manipulative—way more manipulative than simply requiring a vaccine passport for access to anywhere public.

I'm all for "vaccine apartheid" if and when it works, but meanwhile a hundred billion or so is chump change in this context, and after this level of mollycoddling we can just ship the remaining stragglers to Guantanamo and let them fend for themselves. 

I would prefer a system of 'if it makes you sick, we will reimburse you for lost time at work'. 'If it turns out there are long term side effects that give you a heart condition, cancer etc, we will pay for your treatment and take responsibility for it'. I would consider that fair. After all, if the vaccine is effective, the government will end up paying out no money right?

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16 hours ago, RacyAcey said:

the governments all did not want the common medicines to work, because then they could not release a vaccine without all the proper testing.......you might call this a conspiracy theory, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck......

A conspiracy theory would need to be several orders of magnitude less stupid.

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Just now, Coffee Pancake said:

Aside from us all obviously being alive and not dying from covid or the vaccine, yeah, nothing at all.

By the time you're happy with the vaccine the virus will have mutated to the point we will need a new one, and then you can do this all over again.

There are some good arguments out there for the idea that the new strains are as a direct result of the vaccines themselves. After all, there would be no need for the virus to mutate if there had been no vaccine and that is proven by the fact that the vaccines are not as effective on the delta strain. Same as antibiotic resistance.

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Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

There are some good arguments out there for the idea that the new strains are as a direct result of the vaccines themselves. After all, there would be no need for the virus to mutate if there had been no vaccine and that is proven by the fact that the vaccines are not as effective on the delta strain. Same as antibiotic resistance.

😂

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5 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I would prefer a system of 'if it makes you sick, we will reimburse you for lost time at work'. 'If it turns out there are long term side effects that give you a heart condition, cancer etc, we will pay for your treatment and take responsibility for it'. I would consider that fair. After all, if the vaccine is effective, the government will end up paying out no money right?

What has fairness to do with anything? We're down to the true idiots here, and there's no way they're going to take a "fair" offer. It's just a matter of protecting ourselves from them somehow.

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1 minute ago, Qie Niangao said:

What has fairness to do with anything? We're down to the true idiots here, and there's no way they're going to take a "fair" offer. It's just a matter of protecting ourselves from them somehow.

This is what I can't stand about people like you. This snooty attitude that everyone who doesn't think like you do is irredeemably stupid. That they are not human, that they can't be reasoned with.

I sat here, took the time to explain my concerns, showed how they could be alleviated, but you still just can't help yourself can you?

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