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1 hour ago, Jackson Redstar said:

assuming vaccines 'work' then the only who are mostly at risk then would be the unvaccinated. Remember that saying "my body my choice"

But the way the government keeps pushing vaccines and masks seems to indicate  we still don't have a handle on this thing, despite convincing millions to get an experimental non FDA approved vaccine. But there is money in them that hills! er, I mean, vaccine shots, so of course the Pharmas that created them want as many people as possible to get them. But I personally think we should back off of people who don't want to, for whatever reason - be a good reason or a stupid reason, to get a jab. They have to decide for themselves if it is worth any risks to their selves or not

Because those unvaccinated are now putting our children, who can't get vaccinated, at risk.  With most mask mandates removed, all of you folks running around unvaccinated and possibly carrying the virus are the greatest threat to every child under 12.  

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/covid-19-child-cases-are-again-rising-as-schools-gear-up-to-reopen-but-vaccines-for-the-youngest-are-still-months-away/ar-AAMnxq5?ocid=uxbndlbing

Edited by Rowan Amore
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3 hours ago, Jackson Redstar said:

assuming vaccines 'work' then the only who are mostly at risk then would be the unvaccinated. Remember that saying "my body my choice"

But the way the government keeps pushing vaccines and masks seems to indicate  we still don't have a handle on this thing, despite convincing millions to get an experimental non FDA approved vaccine. But there is money in them that hills! er, I mean, vaccine shots, so of course the Pharmas that created them want as many people as possible to get them. But I personally think we should back off of people who don't want to, for whatever reason - be a good reason or a stupid reason, to get a jab. They have to decide for themselves if it is worth any risks to their selves or not

From what I've read, vaccines appear to be 'working' as they are intended to do.  Once my youngest grandchildren are able to be vaccinated, then I won't care at all about whether other people choose to be vaccinated or not vaccinated. The best way to protect the very young and those whose health is already so comprised that they cannot get vacinated is by everyone who is able to be vacinnated, to be vaccinated.  Outside of that, though, I really don't care if other adults want to remain unvaccinated by choice, and risk their lives or their health.  However, I do feel for those in health care who were probably hoping for a break in caring for Covid patients, but are now facing increasing numbers of patients again (which by an overwhelming majority, were unvaccinated).  

Please remember the saying "my body, my choice" when deciding whether to vote for politicians who support or sponsor legislation which limits the choices women have over their own bodies.

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4 hours ago, Jackson Redstar said:

They have to decide for themselves if it is worth any risks to their selves or not

We live within a community of others we should also care about. We are not isolated individuals with no connection or responsibility to the rest of this planet we call home.

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6 hours ago, Jackson Redstar said:

 But there is money in them that hills! er, I mean, vaccine shots, so of course the Pharmas that created them want as many people as possible to get them.

The Vaccine is free.... 

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6 hours ago, Jackson Redstar said:

assuming vaccines 'work' then the only who are mostly at risk then would be the unvaccinated. Remember that saying "my body my choice"

But the way the government keeps pushing vaccines and masks seems to indicate  we still don't have a handle on this thing, despite convincing millions to get an experimental non FDA approved vaccine. But there is money in them that hills! er, I mean, vaccine shots, so of course the Pharmas that created them want as many people as possible to get them. But I personally think we should back off of people who don't want to, for whatever reason - be a good reason or a stupid reason, to get a jab. They have to decide for themselves if it is worth any risks to their selves or not

It's not the risk to themselves they need to consider. It's the risk they pose to others by not being vaccinated.

I have a compromised immune system. If you are not vaccinated, stay away from me, by at least 50 yards. 

There are millions of people with compromised immune systems. Those who don't get jabbed are putting all of those people at risk.

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36 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

The Vaccine is free.... 

It's only free to people.  The governments still have to pay for them - in most cases anyway.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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7 hours ago, Jackson Redstar said:

Remember that saying "my body my choice"

Nice try.

Except we're in a pandemic and the virus doesn't respect your choice not to get infected and not to spread itself to someone you care about.

Attempting to reframe the augment used to counter the so called prolife movement is disingenuous at best.

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7 hours ago, Jackson Redstar said:

assuming vaccines 'work' then the only who are mostly at risk then would be the unvaccinated. Remember that saying "my body my choice"

But the way the government keeps pushing vaccines and masks seems to indicate  we still don't have a handle on this thing, despite convincing millions to get an experimental non FDA approved vaccine. But there is money in them that hills! er, I mean, vaccine shots, so of course the Pharmas that created them want as many people as possible to get them. But I personally think we should back off of people who don't want to, for whatever reason - be a good reason or a stupid reason, to get a jab. They have to decide for themselves if it is worth any risks to their selves or not

The vaccines work.
Here in the NL we have a huge new break out, mostly among the younger people in their teens and twenties, who are not or not completely vaccinated yet. Hospitals don't fill like the last time with such a peak outbreak. They don't fill with people having side effects from vaccines either. So they are safe.

We started now with vaccinating children from 12-18 years as well (on voluntary basis of course just like the adults).
Fingers crossed the virus will not mutate into a variant that is not caught by the vaccines.

Edited by Sid Nagy
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1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Nice try.

Except we're in a pandemic and the virus doesn't respect your choice not to get infected and not to spread itself to someone you care about.

Attempting to reframe the augment used to counter the so called prolife movement is disingenuous at best.

Failing to get vaccinated increases the mutation and spread of new deadly variants, so the rational choice should be between getting vaccinated or getting locked away from the rest of us until this is all over. If folks are really that worried about the vaccines, they should have no problem with a few months or years of enforced isolation to avoid the dread needle. Of course they're not that worried about the vaccines, they just found yet another addlebrained conspiracy to salute. And of course we won't lock them up, so it will take generations to fully eradicate this damned virus despite having vaccines with unmatched safety and effectiveness compared to those for polio and smallpox. And meanwhile, over decades, millions of people worldwide will suffer and die.

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It would appear that in the UK at least, the numbers of vaccinated contracting COVID is about to overtake the numbers of unvaccinated contracting it. Regardless of whether or not there is a difference in the severity of the symptoms, both still appear to be able to transmit the disease to others so to me it sounds like people should be careful of both the vaccinated and unvaccinated who might be displaying symptoms.

 

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2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

both still appear to be able to transmit the disease to others so to me it sounds like people should be careful of both the vaccinated and unvaccinated 

Yes. This has always been the case. Get a vaccine. Keep wearing a mask. Avoid restaurants and indoor public gatherings.

 It's not over till it's actually over.

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

who might be displaying symptoms.

asymptomatic - someone with the virus who has no symptoms and looks entirely fine, yet is infectious.

We have known that since the start too.

Even Hannity now says take it seriously and do what your doctor advises.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/21/media/fox-news-covid-19-vaccine-reliable-sources/index.html

 

The evidence relating to variants is weighing heavily in favor of the mRNA types.

Moderna FTW.

Please go get a vaccine, keep it a secret if you like, but do go get both shots.

 

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2 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Yes. This has always been the case. Get a vaccine. Keep wearing a mask. Avoid restaurants and indoor public gatherings.

 It's not over till it's actually over.

asymptomatic - someone with the virus who has no symptoms and looks entirely fine, yet is infectious.

We have known that since the start too.

Even Hannity now says take it seriously and do what your doctor advises.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/21/media/fox-news-covid-19-vaccine-reliable-sources/index.html

 

The evidence relating to variants is weighing heavily in favor of the mRNA types.

Moderna FTW.

Please go get a vaccine, keep it a secret if you like, but do go get both shots.

 

Regardless it counters the argument that the unvaccinated are any more of a danger to others than the vaccinated. The vaccine becomes a personal decision that is relevant for oneself rather than the community as a whole. Some of the unvaccinated have to weigh the risk of getting an adverse effect from vaccines vs getting Covid itself.

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4 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

It would appear that in the UK at least, the numbers of vaccinated contracting COVID is about to overtake the numbers of unvaccinated contracting it. 

One thing to remember is that the UK followed a very different strategy that we have in North America.  They put their highest priority initially on getting a large number of people at least one shot of the vaccine, on the theory that partial immunization for a large number of people would be smarter in the long run than full immunity for a few.  That made sense when quantities of vaccine were limited.  I also made sense because it greatly reduced the number of people who might become seriously ill and die.  It gave the UK a chance to get ahead of CoVid early, and it did mean that their reported cases and deaths dropped more rapidly than it did in many other countries.  The number of people who have now received both doses, however, is lower than it should be, and it has been hard to keep up the pace of vaccination as society has opened up and people are getting impatient.  As a result, the number of people who now get infected -- many despite having been partially immunized -- is growing.  Those people can also pass CoVid along to friends and family.  So yes,

15 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Regardless of whether or not there is a difference in the severity of the symptoms, both still appear to be able to transmit the disease to others so to me it sounds like people should be careful of both the vaccinated and unvaccinated who might be displaying symptoms.

The same is true in parts of the U.S. where high numbers of people are unvaccinated or have had only one shot.  It's one of the reasons why I will continue to wear a mask indoors in public.

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3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Some of the unvaccinated have to weigh the risk of getting an adverse effect from vaccines vs getting Covid itself.

That's the case with any medication.  It's virtually unheard of for any medication to have no side effects, and there are always going to be some people who are innunocompromised or have other unique conditions that put them at higher risk than average.  It's important for people at higher risk to get competent medical advice -- from a real doctor, not the Internet -- so they can evaluate their personal vulnerability.  Public health authorities in countries around the world have authorized use of the vaccines, based on evaluation of ongoing clinical trials that continue to confirm that the risk of adverse effects that are more serious than CoVid itself are very small for everyone else.

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24 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Regardless it counters the argument that the unvaccinated are any more of a danger to others than the vaccinated. The vaccine becomes a personal decision that is relevant for oneself rather than the community as a whole. Some of the unvaccinated have to weigh the risk of getting an adverse effect from vaccines vs getting Covid itself.

So transmitting Covid to someone whose immune system is already compromised doesn't even figure into it.

Too many are too willing to put other people at risk and that is precisely what those who refuse to get jabbed are doing. PUTTING OTHERS AT RISK.

Why should we give a damn about them when they don't give a damn about us?

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1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Regardless it counters the argument that the unvaccinated are any more of a danger to others than the vaccinated. 

Huh?

If there are nine times as many people vaccinated as unvaccinated it's hardly surprising as many or more vaccinated people contract the virus as unvaccinated. Some will spread it, presumably, is there any data showing that cases in vaccinated people transmit with the same virulence as from unvaccinated carriers, for any given level of symptoms? Even if we make that assumption (which may be true, or not), if the number of UK infections is currently about the same for vaccinated and unvaccinated, that would mean unvaccinated people are nine times more dangerous than vaccinated.

(None of that is to suggest vaccinated people should stop wearing masks. Anything as easy as mask-wearing that might make some reduction in spread is a no-brainer. Same for other reasonable precautions we all know by now.)

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Are the flat-earthers here still at it? Too bad I can still read their bs when someone else quotes it.

Ona more constructive note, for anyone who's interested:

9rwsbhibikc71.jpg.c5c39b27f7cea28868cf30405e440173.jpg

The original article from al.com:

https://www.al.com/news/2021/07/im-sorry-but-its-too-late-alabama-doctor-on-treating-unvaccinated-dying-covid-patients.html

Edited by Arduenn Schwartzman
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1 hour ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

Are the flat-earthers here still at it? Too bad I can still read their bs when someone else quotes it.

Ona more constructive note, for anyone who's interested:

9rwsbhibikc71.jpg.c5c39b27f7cea28868cf30405e440173.jpg

The original article from al.com:

https://www.al.com/news/2021/07/im-sorry-but-its-too-late-alabama-doctor-on-treating-unvaccinated-dying-covid-patients.html

Wonderful bedside manner she has. Too bad she didn't offer to treat the patient with Ivermectin or hydrocloronique as the the patient might well still be alive today. Instead she uses the death to promote her little agenda. Keep her well away from me.

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2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Huh?

If there are nine times as many people vaccinated as unvaccinated it's hardly surprising as many or more vaccinated people contract the virus as unvaccinated. Some will spread it, presumably, is there any data showing that cases in vaccinated people transmit with the same virulence as from unvaccinated carriers, for any given level of symptoms? Even if we make that assumption (which may be true, or not), if the number of UK infections is currently about the same for vaccinated and unvaccinated, that would mean unvaccinated people are nine times more dangerous than vaccinated.

(None of that is to suggest vaccinated people should stop wearing masks. Anything as easy as mask-wearing that might make some reduction in spread is a no-brainer. Same for other reasonable precautions we all know by now.)

It isn't anywhere near 9 times. Probably barely 50% vaccinated if you include the 12-18 age group. 

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11 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Wonderful bedside manner she has. Too bad she didn't offer to treat the patient with Ivermectin or hydrocloronique as the the patient might well still be alive today. Instead she uses the death to promote her little agenda. Keep her well away from me.

Except the FDA has prohibited both of those drugs for the treatment of Covid. Should she waste a vaccine on a patient that it will NOT help? That would be a terrible thing for a doctor to do. 

BTW, its hydroxychloroquine.

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/can-ivermectin-be-used-to-treat-covid-19-what-you-should-know/ar-AALXFB8?ocid=uxbndlbing

It seems to me, that for the length of time some people have been claiming it to be a wonder drug for Covid, some study, somewhere, done the correct way, should show whether Ivermectin works.or not.  It would be front page news.  Yet there is barely anything credible.

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1 minute ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Except the FDA has prohibited both of those drugs for the treatment of Covid. Should she waste a vaccine on a patient that it will NOT help? That would be a terrible thing for a doctor to do. 

BTW, its hydroxychloroquine.

From what I have read, an MD still has the ability to override the FDA's recommendations and the NIH for example has no guidelines for or against Ivermectin's use. Enough studies out there showing some degree of efficacy fort the Covid treatments so it certainly would not have harmed in any case even if it was nothing more then a placebo effect. Her bedside manner in effect signed the patients death warrant by removing all hope.

Thx for the correction.

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Quote

In this laboratory study, the team assessed how the SARS-CoV-2 RBD interacted with respiratory and red blood cells in A, B and O blood types.

The results showed that the SARS-CoV-2 RBD had a strong preference for binding to blood group A found on respiratory cells, but had no preference for blood group A red blood cells, or other blood groups found on respiratory or red cells.

"It is interesting that the viral RBD only really prefers the type of blood group A antigens that are on respiratory cells, which are presumably how the virus is entering most patients and infecting them," said study author Dr. Sean Stowell, from Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston.

"Blood type is a challenge because it is inherited and not something we can change," Stowell said in a journal news release. "But if we can better understand how the virus interacts with blood groups in people, we may be able to find new medicines or methods of prevention."

(from https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210303/why-blood-type-may-matter-for-covid-infection) 

 

Quote

Our life-saving  MATH+ Hospital Treatment Protocol for COVID-19 (available in several languages), created in March 2020, is intended for hospitalized patients. The recently developed I-MASK+ Prevention & Early Outpatient Treatment Protocol for COVID-19 (this page) is designed for use as a prevention and in early outpatient treatment, for those who test positive for COVID-19. The protocols complement each other, and both are physiologic-based combination treatment regimens developed by leaders in critical care medicine. All the component medicines are FDA-approved (except ivermectin), inexpensive, readily available and have been used for decades with well-established safety profiles.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/FLCCC-Alliance-I-MASKplus-Protocol-ENGLISH.pdf

 

Quote

We found that the absolute difference in vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic disease with one dose of vaccine with the delta variant as compared with the alpha variant was approximately 12 to 19 percentage points. However, the differences in vaccine effectiveness after two doses were small. This was the case for both the BNT162b2 and ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccines. In the test-negative case–control analysis, the estimated vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic disease with the delta variant was approximately 36% with a single dose of the BNT162b2 vaccine and approximately 30% with a single dose of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine; the effectiveness was approximately 88% with two doses of the BNT162b2 vaccine and approximately 67% with two doses of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine.

(from <https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891>)

Quote

I work in healthcare and I’ve been following guidelines this whole time. I got vaccinated as soon as I was eligible (Moderna), and my husband and I were more cautious than most people I know, because I didn’t want to contribute to spread. We were more relaxed recently because of the vaccine, and last week we took our first family vacation in nearly 2 years, so I must have caught it there. I developed a mild cough yesterday that progressed to a fever, chills, sore throat, and bad headache. I also have a lot of sinus pressure. Honestly, this doesn’t feel all that “mild” to me. So far my husband is fine, though my children are unvaccinated because they are too young to get it. For some reason I’m feeling a little angry—like, I don’t know where to direct it, but I’ve done everything I’ve been told to do and I’m still sick. I’m only 37 and I’m healthy, so hopefully my symptoms do not get any worse. Anyway, if you are vaccinated it seems that you still can’t let your guard down completely.

(from https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19positive/comments/ooztwj/tested_positive_todayvaccinated_back_in_january/ )

 


 

Quote

My dad (late 40s to early 50s age range) is an engineer. He was fully vaccinated with Pfizer in March. Before the pandemic started he was working at an office. After the pandemic started, he started working from home and around April of this year he got a project where he had to work in-person at a plant. At this plant he worked in indoor offices as well as the outdoor areas of the plant to check on equipment etc. Last Saturday he tested positive and they confirmed it was Delta. He would wear a kn95 masks indoors(albeit he wore it for 10 days at a time rather than the recommended 5 days time) and did not wear a mask outdoors even he would be less than 6 feet from people. Five other people at his plant tested positive(One was an unvaccinated guy who had to get on IV because of severe diarrhea). Since Saturday Dad has had fevers, phlegm, nasal and chest congestion, a bad cough, headaches, body pain, diarrhea, severe fatigue. The diarrhea and fatigue was the scary symptom because he went almost 5 times in one day and was weak and tired. It got to the point that his doctor recommended Regeneron monoclonal antibodies. He got a 2 hour IV delivery of that on Monday at an outpatient infusion center and has felt better since. Still having a light cough and low grade fever, but his other symptoms and fatigue decreased significantly. So my Dad did not have a "slight cold" when he caught COVID after being fully vaccinated. He had extremely uncomfortable and scary symptoms which caused his doctor to recommend antibody therapy. Who knows why this happened!? Perhaps my dad did not build a strong immune response when he was vaccinated? 

(from https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19positive/comments/oorl63/just_wanted_to_share_a_story_about_my_dad_who_was/ )

 


I'm in Arizona. You'd think they'd be fearful of the genocide their government is spreading here, but I actually had to ask my cashier to put on a mask, even though the supermarket was a ghost town because pandemic. That's the kind of crazy they peddle down here, but you don't realize it until you show up for a job in the sciences thinking you'll be safe from hard-right rabies.

Test. Quarantine. Contain.

 

Edited by Chroma Starlight
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43 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Wonderful bedside manner she has. Too bad she didn't offer to treat the patient with Ivermectin or hydrocloronique as the the patient might well still be alive today. Instead she uses the death to promote her little agenda. Keep her well away from me.

If that's your personal plan, I wish you the very best of luck.

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