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On 6/21/2021 at 3:00 PM, Arielle Popstar said:

It's an interesting article but it does say itself that "the virus spike proteins (which behave very differently than those safely encoded by vaccines)". As I understand it the vaccines contain or codes for fragments of the spike protein, not the whole spike protein. That makes a difference. 

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Here's what contact tracing looks like when it's implemented together along with a testing and quarantine regime. 

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* Qantas flight QF163 that arrived at 12.05am on June 19
* Rydges Hotel from 12am June 19 to 9.10am June 21
* Unichem Pharmacy on Lambton Quay from 10.38am to 11.48am June 19
* Floridita's Restaurant from 12.45pm to 4pm on June 19
* Te Papa from 3.05pm to 5.45pm on June 19
* Te Papa's Surrealist Art exhibit from 4pm to 5.45pm on June 19
* Highwater Eater from 5.45pm to 9.30pm on June 19
* 4 Kings Bar toilets at 8.45pm on June 19
* Jack Hackett's Bar from 8.45pm to 12am on June 19
 
* Pickle and Pie Cafe from 9.45am to 11.37am June 20
* The Weta Cave Shop on June 20 from 1110am to 12.30pm
* Victoria University of Wellington's Adam Art Gallery on its Kelburn campus has been identified as a location of interest. The traveller visited on June 20 from around 12.30pm to 1.10pm. 
* The Lido cafe on June 20 from 1pm to 2.45pm
* Unity Books on June 20 from 1.50pm to 3.05pm
* Countdown Cable Lane on June 20 from 6pm to 7.15pm
* One Red Dog on June 20 from 7pm to 9pm

( from https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/125529986/covid19-nz-wellington-moving-into-alert-level-2-tonight )

Look. They even stopped at a pharmacy first thing, like they knew they were feeling ill?

Please note: If you travel internationally, you should probably just assume that you are infected when you get off that human petri dish they call an aeroplane. The very last thing you should do would be to do like fourteen social outings within the first forty-eight hours. Do you really want to be the one who so recklessly sowed such evitable risk of harm in innocent others' lives?

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Edited by Chroma Starlight
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1 hour ago, Chroma Starlight said:

Here's what contact tracing looks like when it's implemented together along with a testing and quarantine regime. 

Look. They even stopped at a pharmacy first thing, like they knew they were feeling ill?

Please note: If you travel internationally, you should probably just assume that you are infected when you get off that human petri dish they call an aeroplane. The very last thing you should do would be to do like fourteen social outings within the first forty-eight hours. Do you really want to be the one who so recklessly sowed such evitable risk of harm in innocent others' lives?

japan-quarantine-mascot.jpg

Not to mention how the Wellingtonians will be thanking that "traveller" for forcing them into a level 2 lockdown.

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3 hours ago, Flook Somerset said:

They were in there an hour? 

I think they extend the period of interest out of concern that the virus may hang around in the air for a while in an enclosed space that lacks sufficient enough ventilation to remove it.

Edited by Chroma Starlight
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'Likely link' between rare heart inflammation and Pfizer, Moderna vaccines - CDC
REUTERS, June 23 2021

Rare cases of heart inflammation in adolescents and young adults is likely linked to vaccination with the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna COVID-19 shots, a group of doctors advising the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said in a presentation released on Wednesday.

The COVID-19 Vaccine Safety Technical (VaST) Work Group said in their report that the risk of myocarditis or pericarditis following vaccination with the mRNA-based shots in adolescents and young adults is notably higher after the second dose and in males.

The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) is meeting on Wednesday to assess the possibility of a link between the heart condition and the mRNA vaccines. VaST is a sub-group of ACIP.

Over 138 million Americans have so far been fully vaccinated with one of the two mRNA vaccines, according to CDC data as of Monday.

(from https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/06/likely-link-between-rare-heart-inflammation-and-pfizer-moderna-vaccines-cdc.html )

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Always be sure to stay safe and protected, whether going up or down.

 

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Germany Warns Against Travel to COVID-19 Delta Variant Countries
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/, June 23, 2021

“Travel to regions that are particularly affected by the Delta variant should be avoided,” the President of German Medical Association, Klaus Reinhardt, said.

Thus, even though Germany has decided to reopen its borders for non-EU citizens who have been fully vaccinated against the COVID-19, strict measures will continue to be effective for those from virus variant areas.

Countries such as the United Kingdom and India are currently placed on Germany’s list of virus variant areas. Persons who have permission to enter from a country placed on this list must stay self-isolated for 14 days and are not permitted to end their quarantine early even if they are fully vaccinated.

As of June 23, Germany has registered 3,722,782 COVID-19 infection cases and 90,472 deaths. Until now, Germany has administered at least 68,167,982 Coronavirus vaccine doses with a rate of around 820,990 doses per day during the last week.

(from https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/germany-warns-against-travel-to-covid-19-delta-variant-countries/ )

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New South Wales has 11 new community cases of COVID-19, bringing the total number of active cases linked to the Bondi cluster to 36.
Dan Satherley, 1hr ago, newshub.co.nz

Eighteen new cases were added to the official tally on Thursday, counting every new case recorded in the 24 hours to 8pm Wednesday. Thirteen had been revealed the day before and six will be included in Friday's numbers, bringing the total new number to 11. 

More than 48,000 tests were carried out.

"High testing numbers are vital in detecting cases of COVID-19 in order to prevent further transmission," NSW Health said in a statement. 

(from https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/06/coronavirus-11-new-covid-19-cases-in-nsw-minister-in-isolation-after-testing-positive.html)

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As long as Germany keeps up with their vaccinations, hopefully, they'll weather the new storm.  With 1/4 of the population fully vaccinated and 50% with at least the first shot, they should be alright as the vaccine seems to be very effective against the delta strain.  Isolating new arrivals is just another way to keep down the spread.

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3 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Maybe getting vaxxed and then contact traced for the vaccine shedding?

Please stop spouting disinformation.

What is 'vaccine shedding'?

Like many myths, the belief that interacting with someone who got a vaccine could potentially cause you harm stems from kernel of truth. It's a concept called viral shedding (or sometimes "vaccine shedding"), a process of the body releasing viral particles from a vaccine and hypothetically creating a risk of infection to others.

"It is possible to have viral shedding after a vaccine, but what that requires is a weakened virus to be used as the basis for the vaccines. That's not the basis or science behind any of the vaccines we're currently using for COVID-19," Vincent Venditto, PhD, assistant professor of pharmaceutical sciences at the University of Kentucky College of Pharmacy, who has worked on vaccine development, tells Health.

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Meanwhile .... yet another antivaxer who cited covid as Gods judgement against LGBTQ & Jewish people, told people to avoid vaccinations because it was a really a mass genocide program, is now in hospital on oxygen begging social media for prayers to save him.

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2021/06/pundit-hospitalized-covid-saying-gods-judgment-lgbtq-jewish-people/ 

Get a vaccination, the truth is that Covid loves you no matter what you believe.

Edited by Coffee Pancake
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Nearly all COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. now are in people who weren’t vaccinated, a staggering demonstration of how effective the shots have been and an indication that deaths per day — now down to under 300 — could be practically zero if everyone eligible got the vaccine.

 

Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated (msn.com)

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13 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:
17 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Maybe getting vaxxed and then contact traced for the vaccine shedding?

Please stop spouting disinformation.

What is 'vaccine shedding'?

Vaccine shedding would be a wonderful thing.

Infectious cures for the win!

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1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Vaccine shedding would be a wonderful thing.

Infectious cures for the win!

I can't wait for the mRNA vaccines for HIV and cancers! If only the shedding worked how antivaxers claimed, that would be incredible.

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18 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Please stop spouting disinformation.

What is 'vaccine shedding'?

Like many myths, the belief that interacting with someone who got a vaccine could potentially cause you harm stems from kernel of truth. It's a concept called viral shedding (or sometimes "vaccine shedding"), a process of the body releasing viral particles from a vaccine and hypothetically creating a risk of infection to others.

"It is possible to have viral shedding after a vaccine, but what that requires is a weakened virus to be used as the basis for the vaccines. That's not the basis or science behind any of the vaccines we're currently using for COVID-19," Vincent Venditto, PhD, assistant professor of pharmaceutical sciences at the University of Kentucky College of Pharmacy, who has worked on vaccine development, tells Health.

I would really like to believe that Rowan but when a pioneer in the development of mRNA vaccines ( Luigi Warren) says that it most certainly does shed, then I will believe him first even if twitter chooses to ban his post. Combined with new studies showing the vaccine spike protein to be biologically active and circulating in the blood 28 days after the first shot and plenty of anecdotal  evidence of unvaccinated getting side effects of the vaccine, there is certainly some cause for skepticism.

 

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7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I would really like to believe that Rowan but when a pioneer in the development of mRNA vaccines ( Luigi Warren) says that it most certainly does shed, then I will believe him first even if twitter chooses to ban his post. Combined with new studies showing the vaccine spike protein to be biologically active and circulating in the blood 28 days after the first shot and plenty of anecdotal  evidence of unvaccinated getting side effects of the vaccine, there is certainly some cause for skepticism.

 

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I don't know why Warren's tweet was removed, it's fairly non controversial. We know that miniscule quantities of the spike protein are shed in urine and possibly other fluids. He acknowledges that, yet refutes your insinuation that spike protein shedding is causing plentiful anecdotal evidence of side effects. That's a very strange kind of trust you place in Dr. Warren, Arielle.

Once again your supporting evidence refutes you.

 

 

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There’s no evidence that the spike protein by itself can harm your or others’ bodies. There’s also no evidence that you will shed the spike protein in substantial amounts after getting vaccinated. The spike protein isn’t like perfume or cologne. Don’t expect someone to walk by and remark, “is that Chanel Number B.1.1.7 or One 1 Million spike proteins that I am sensing?”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/05/08/can-covid-19-vaccines-cause-shedding-of-coronavirus-the-problems-with-such-claims/?sh=1f71638b55ea

In order to "shed" coronavirus particles, you would have to have the live coronavirus in your body, experts say - and none of the available vaccines contain the live virus in any amount.

"None of the COVID-19 vaccines can make you sick with COVID-19, nor do they contain the live virus in any amount," says Cook County Department of Public Health' Senior Medical Officer and Co-Lead Dr. Kiran Joshi. "COVID-19 vaccines teach our immune systems how to recognize and fight the virus that causes COVID-19."

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/does-the-covid-vaccine-contain-the-virus-no-and-it-wont-make-you-shed-spike-proteins-either/2507394/

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45 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I don't know why Warren's tweet was removed, it's fairly non controversial. We know that miniscule quantities of the spike protein are shed in urine and possibly other fluids. He acknowledges that, yet refutes your insinuation that spike protein shedding is causing plentiful anecdotal evidence of side effects. That's a very strange kind of trust you place in Dr. Warren, Arielle.

Once again your supporting evidence refutes you.

Your post acknowledging the shedding of the vaccine spike protein is already supporting evidence :)

Ps @Madelaine McMastersI find you tend to not pay enough attention to the "weasel" words in some of the studies and statements we have debated over. In this example, his use of "almost certainly" should be seen that in his statement there is a element of doubt about the certainty of the shedding being able to cause disease in others. There are no sure things in science is there, so he does leave open the possibility that he may be proven wrong in that assumption. Perhaps you should too.

Edited by Arielle Popstar
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How about vaccine passports
for hospital admissions?

Too crazy, lazy, or scared to get vaccinated?
and health care staff should don PPE and risk their lives for them?
after a year and a half of this hell?

Yeah, they can make up their own minds, weigh the pros and cons, wait for the right time
but now that it's a willful act not to be vaccinated, should they bear the costs of their decisions?

Should they let everyone else get medical attention again, all those postponed treatments first?
Should the unvaccinated step to the back of the line?

(Medicine can't do this of course, gotta save the most lives possible, something in the Hippocratic Fine Print. And it's probably right, but it sure seems to create a moral hazard.)

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