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Why Did It Take So Long to Accept the Facts About Covid?


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4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Spoons and choo-choo train noises (sorry)

Spoons and airplane vroooms.

"Open the hangar door, Maddy!"

I did wonder about injecting mosquitoes with ivermectin. Imagine a needle coming at you that's bigger than your proboscis, or your head.

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37 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Misquoting in-vitro (literally in-glass) studies happens so frequently it's perhaps time for the language to be changed.

We also have "in-silico" (computer simulation) to deal with now... https://www.pnas.org/content/118/3/e2021642118

Language is going to be an ongoing problem now that laypeople have easy access to professional literature. It would be cumbersome for academia to do all its conversing without domain specific language. I've been reading Science News since my childhood (it's the only magazine subscription I've ever had) and they do a wonderful job of translating jargon to plain-speak. Unfortunately, journalists with actual science backgrounds are in short supply.

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Posted (edited)

Had my first "swab" COVID test today, for a procedure on Thursday. Despite having both vaccinations, and quarterly blood antibody tests. They test 3 days before a procedure, regardless of your vaccination or other testing status. I was surprised! 

Edited by Love Zhaoying
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33 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Had my first "swab" COVID test today, for a procedure on Thursday. Despite having both vaccinations, and quarterly blood antibody tests. They test 3 days before a procedure, regardless of your vaccination or other testing status. I was surprised! 

The best vaccines are still in the 95% range for protection. That last 5% could ruin your day. The test is cheap insurance.

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3 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Spoons and airplane vroooms.

"Open the hangar door, Maddy!"

I did wonder about injecting mosquitoes with ivermectin. Imagine a needle coming at you that's bigger than your proboscis, or your head.

1187858_020416-kabc-6pm-mutant-mosquito-

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On 6/7/2021 at 5:04 PM, Rowan Amore said:

I hope you realize I was being facetious.

Yes, I did    :)

But just remember, regarding conspiracy theories, that just because you're paranoid doesn't mean nobody is after you!  😉

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Posted (edited)
On 6/7/2021 at 6:21 PM, Madelaine McMasters said:

This morning India's Union Health Ministry removed ivermectin from its list of approved treatments:
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/govt-drops-ivermectin-hcq-and-favipiravir-from-covid-19-treatment-list-101623058343019.html

My curiosity over ivermectin is waning, but I'll keep it on my radar.

That has happened in other countries too after they made deals with Pfizer. I guess Pfizer cuts them a deal if they remove recommendations of previously approved treatments. A couple of other Indian health agencies still recommend them though like the Indian Council for Medical Research (ICMR) and All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS).

Another interesting development is that the Indian Bar association is taking legal action against the WHO's chief scientist for what they say is her lies about the ineffectiveness of Ivermectin.

Quote

A legal notice is served by Indian Bar Association (IBA) upon Dr. Soumya Swaminathan, the Chief Scientist at the World Health Organisation (WHO) on May 25, 2021 for her act of spreading disinformation and misguiding the people of India, in order to fulfil her agenda.

https://indianbarassociation.in/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/IBA-PRESS-RELEASE-MAY-26-2021.pdf

Edited by Arielle Popstar
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On 6/7/2021 at 5:05 PM, Luna Bliss said:

Well, if we're going to discredit this woman we have to do it right! lol

I don't think just because someone lives in a country that is prejudiced and/or run by asshats, or goes to school there, that this is a reason to discredit them. I mean, do we discredit all those who lived in the U.S. under slavery?  Now if she actively promoted Apartheid, yeah, wouldn't want to hear much of what she said.

How did she get the name of the drug wrong, or where did you see that?  I want to read more about this.

Agreed, degrees don't prevent someone having questionable moral values, and often people can specialize well but not see a bigger picture.

Well, the work history I mentioned indicates some sort of problem. She had the title of Director for one job that she had for a whopping 6 months. I work in healthcare, 6 months as a Director (and the slew of other jobs that mostly lasted less than 1 year over the course of 10 or more years) is a huge red flag. Whether it's because of incompetence or inability to 'work well over others' is irrelevant. That it seems to have happened over and over again, I believe, is.

And yes, I do judge someone that moves to, lives in and supports a racist government then leaves when that racist government is deposed in a fairly dim light. Coupled with her work history.. Well, there are a lot of inferences to be made. Medical facilities tend to overlook a lot of things to keep qualified staff. Racism and sustained incompetence aren't.

The medicine originally mentioned that the conspiracy theorists glommed onto as ivermectin was, I believe, avermectin. A related, but different drug. Both are anti-parasitic, but they aren't the same thing and to assume interchangeability is deadly dangerous. In either case with these medicines, a virus is not a parasite. The stupidity arises from the fact that people are hospitalized for overdosing on a drug that's really difficult to overdose on because of these medical frauds that are trying to capitalize on people's fear (and in many cases, poverty.)

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12 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

That has happened in other countries too after they made deals with Pfizer. I guess Pfizer cuts them a deal if they remove recommendations of previously approved treatments. A couple of other Indian health agencies still recommend them though like the Indian Council for Medical Research (ICMR) and All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS).

Another interesting development is that the Indian Bar association is taking legal action against the WHO's chief scientist for what they say is her lies about the ineffectiveness of Ivermectin.

https://indianbarassociation.in/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/IBA-PRESS-RELEASE-MAY-26-2021.pdf

Who are the Indian Bar Association, other than they're not the Bar Council of India (the actual professional body) or the Bar Association of India, or the Indian National Bar Association?    As far as I can make out, it's little more than  a vanity project for a Mr Nilesh Ojha, a Mumbai lawyer who seems to fight with judges a lot. 

The press release tells me nothing, and the full complaint tells me even less -- it's a 50 page rant about Ivermectin but I'm still not clear what the legal complaint is.     

It's like reading legal arguments by that Kraken woman.

If and when it ever comes to court and there's a verdict one way or the other, it might be relevant to something but in what other way is this an "interesting development"?  

 

Edited by Innula Zenovka
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The more I dig into Dr. Tess Lawrie the worse it gets. I'm wondering now if she's a straight out antivaxxer.

The UK has a system for reporting adverse drug reactions called the Yellow Card System, and through some sort of analysis (maybe @Innula Zenovkacan speak to this more as it's a UK system) and Dr. Tess Laurie is claiming the vaccines are unsafe:

"The MHRA (Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency)  now has more than enough evidence on the Yellow Card system to declare the COVID-19 vaccines unsafe for use in humans. Preparation should be made to scale up humanitarian efforts to assist those harmed by the COVID-19 vaccines and to anticipate and ameliorate medium to longer term effects. As the mechanism for harms from the vaccines appears to be similar to COVID-19 itself, this includes engaging with numerous international doctors and scientists with expertise in successfully treating COVID-19.

We kindly request full access to the Yellow Card database with immediate effect to enable a comprehensive, independent and accurate evaluation of the Yellow Card data, which will be undertaken in collaboration with clinical experts.

Yours sincerely, Dr. Tess Lawrie(MBBCh, PhD)Director, Evidence-based Medicine Consultancy Ltd and EbMC Squared CiCBath, UK"

https://b3d2650e-e929-4448-a527-4eeb59304c7f.filesusr.com/ugd/593c4f_b2acdef3774b4e9ca06e9fae526fd5cd.pdf

* note how at the end of her first paragraph she advocates "engaging with numerous international doctors and scientists with expertise in successfully treating COVID-19."   (No doubt this is a reference to the FLCCC (Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance) doctors she supports).

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13 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

That has happened in other countries too after they made deals with Pfizer. I guess Pfizer cuts them a deal if they remove recommendations of previously approved treatments. A couple of other Indian health agencies still recommend them though like the Indian Council for Medical Research (ICMR) and All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS).

Another interesting development is that the Indian Bar association is taking legal action against the WHO's chief scientist for what they say is her lies about the ineffectiveness of Ivermectin.

https://indianbarassociation.in/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/IBA-PRESS-RELEASE-MAY-26-2021.pdf

The idea that Pfizer can stop the entire planet from discovering the value of ivermectin requires cooperation from intensely competing interests. The Russian and Chinese governments would stand to gain greatly from the revelation that US pharma companies are sacrificing millions of people for profit. China is, I think, the primary supplier of raw materials to India's ivermectin producers and India is the world's largest producer of ivermectin. Narendra Modi seems to have no problem playing hardball with Pfizer over indemnification at the potential expense of his constituency. If ivermectin worked as well as claimed, Modi would be foolish not to capitalize on it.

As Innula points out, a lawsuit filed by an ad-hoc lawyer's group is no more interesting than poorly crafted clinical studies filed by physicians with no real background in clinical studies.

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4 hours ago, Roxy Couturier said:

Well, the work history I mentioned indicates some sort of problem. She had the title of Director for one job that she had for a whopping 6 months. I work in healthcare, 6 months as a Director (and the slew of other jobs that mostly lasted less than 1 year over the course of 10 or more years) is a huge red flag. Whether it's because of incompetence or inability to 'work well over others' is irrelevant. That it seems to have happened over and over again, I believe, is.

And yes, I do judge someone that moves to, lives in and supports a racist government then leaves when that racist government is deposed in a fairly dim light. Coupled with her work history.. Well, there are a lot of inferences to be made. Medical facilities tend to overlook a lot of things to keep qualified staff. Racism and sustained incompetence aren't.

I'm all for discrediting Dr. Tess Lawrie, but not on the grounds of racism or incompetent work history.

She grew up in South Africa and went to school there -- this does not mean she or anyone in that situation supported a racist government.. And we don't know why she left even though the departure occurred some time after the racist government was deposed. So I don't see any inferences to be drawn from it. 

Likewise, regarding her work history -- I see no evidence for disqualification because she changed jobs frequently. I've known a couple of people (married to one) in the health care field who changed jobs until they found the best fit. So I see no evidence of incompetence or red flags with this behavior.

She is actually a well-respected researcher and even The WHO has used her for consultation   :(

https://www.e-bmc.co.uk/

Edited by Luna Bliss
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1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Who are the Indian Bar Association, other than they're not the Bar Council of India (the actual professional body) or the Bar Association of India, or the Indian National Bar Association?    As far as I can make out, it's little more than  a vanity project for a Mr Nilesh Ojha, a Mumbai lawyer who seems to fight with judges a lot. 

Appeals to authority only work when the cited authority is actually an authority and not someone posing .. probably for a grift.

Dietician vs foodyologist.

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3 hours ago, Roxy Couturier said:

The medicine originally mentioned that the conspiracy theorists glommed onto as ivermectin was, I believe, avermectin. A related, but different drug. Both are anti-parasitic, but they aren't the same thing and to assume interchangeability is deadly dangerous. 

It looks like ivermectin is a type of avermectin:

file:///C:/Users/VALUED~1/AppData/Local/Temp/pharmaceuticals-13-00196.pdf

                     

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17 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

The UK has a system for reporting adverse drug reactions called the Yellow Card System, and through some sort of analysis (maybe @Innula Zenovkacan speak to this more as it's a UK system) and Dr. Tess Laurie is claiming the vaccines are unsafe:

 

Here's the website https://coronavirus-yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk

and here are their weekly reports and analysis of the results, which I would recommend reading -- it's accessible to a non-specialist like me.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions

 

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3 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:
26 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

The UK has a system for reporting adverse drug reactions called the Yellow Card System, and through some sort of analysis (maybe @Innula Zenovkacan speak to this more as it's a UK system) and Dr. Tess Laurie is claiming the vaccines are unsafe:

 

Here's the website https://coronavirus-yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk

and here are their weekly reports and analysis of the results, which I would recommend reading -- it's accessible to a non-specialist like me.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions

wow, so she is totally fabricating her report? (Dr. Tess Lawrie)

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5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

wow, so she is totally fabricating her report? (Dr. Tess Lawrie)

Certainly there's nothing among their reports -- which are widely covered here in the media -- that seems to me to support her assertion that

Quote

"The MHRA (Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency) now has more than enough evidence on the Yellow Card system to declare the COVID-19 vaccines unsafe for use in humans

Their website and detailed analyses frequently reinforce this warning:

Quote
  • Reporters are asked to submit Yellow Card reports even if they only have a suspicion that the medicine or vaccine may have caused the adverse reaction. The existence of an adverse reaction report in the profile does not necessarily mean that the vaccine has caused the suspected reaction.
  • It may be difficult to tell the difference between something that has occurred naturally and a suspected adverse reaction. Sometimes these events can be part of the condition being treated rather than being caused by the vaccine.
  • Many factors have to be considered when assessing whether the vaccine has caused a reported adverse reaction. When monitoring the safety of vaccines and medicines, MHRA staff carry out careful analysis of these factors.


 

Edited by Innula Zenovka
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The vaccines are unsafe for human use yet look at the billions (not millions) of people who have had the vaccine and yet are still walking around. 

Sounds like a really bad episode of the Walking Dead.

Edited by Silent Mistwalker
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5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

It looks like ivermectin is a type of avermectin:

file:///C:/Users/VALUED~1/AppData/Local/Temp/pharmaceuticals-13-00196.pdf

                     

1. No one can see a file on your computer but you.

2. Avermetcin is not Ivermetcin. They are related. One is synthetic. One is not. No one knows if they are 'the same' or not as there has not been a huge number of valid research on humans. Small doses are great for getting rid of scabies big doses are.. well those pesky hospitalizations I mentioned are directly due to people being conned by quacks like Dr Lawrie. (okay, maybe she isn't incompetent and she's just an opportunistic grifter? So either she's dumb as a box of rocks, or she's morally reprehensible. I'm good with dismissing her either way.

3. So she's South African and left the country right after Apartheid ended. Hmmm how about that.

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

wow, so she is totally fabricating her report? (Dr. Tess Lawrie)

Without looking deeply into Dr. Lawrie's claims, or Innula's yellow card reports, I can think of one explanation for a substantial difference in perception. It's only a guess, but I suspect Dr. Lawrie might be making the mistake of ignoring the background level of adverse outcomes. The yellow card reports will not make that mistake.

It's human nature to elevate the anecdotal beyond reason.

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11 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

1. No one can see a file on your computer but you.

2. Avermetcin is not Ivermetcin. They are related. One is synthetic. One is not. No one knows if they are 'the same' or not as there has not been a huge number of valid research on humans. Small doses are great for getting rid of scabies big doses are.. well those pesky hospitalizations I mentioned are directly due to people being conned by quacks like Dr Lawrie. (okay, maybe she isn't incompetent and she's just an opportunistic grifter? So either she's dumb as a box of rocks, or she's morally reprehensible. I'm good with dismissing her either way.

3. So she's South African and left the country right after Apartheid ended. Hmmm how about that.

2 .The avermectins are a series of drugs and pesticides used to treat parasitic worms and insect pests. They are a group of 16-membered macrocyclic lactone derivatives with potent anthelmintic and insecticidal properties.[1][2] These naturally occurring compounds are generated as fermentation products by Streptomyces avermitilis, a soil actinomycete. Eight different avermectins were isolated in four pairs of homologue compounds, with a major (a-component) and minor (b-component) component usually in ratios of 80:20 to 90:10.[2] Other anthelmintics derived from the avermectins include ivermectin, selamectin, doramectin, eprinomectin, and abamectin.

*I would have to see the link where you claim Lawrie confused the two in a dangerous way.

3. This crossover I frequently see from South Africa to the UK doesn't seem strange to me., as I see it frequently.  I see no evidence that she left because she didn't like the fact that Apartheid ended.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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59 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

The more I dig into Dr. Tess Lawrie the worse it gets. I'm wondering now if she's a straight out antivaxxer.

Be cautious about judgement here. There is a sleight-of-hand going on here that everyone must give due consideration. This is not a vaccine in the tradition of Louis Pasteur's Smallpox Vaccine. This is in fact an unprecedented and unethical mass-scale mRNA-therapy experiment that is being perpetuated upon a largely-uninformed public as some mortifying madly irresponsible alternative to the scientifically-indicated testing, quarantining, and containing of the virus. 

Isn't it neat how they neuro-linguistically programmed everyone about vaccinations with all the anti-vax Flat Earther noise sustained for so very long, and then very rapidly they create a problem with a virus and put forward a solution, which they style a "vaccine." 

There's all sorts of things about this scenario that rub me a very wrong way, not least of which is that even a vaccine would receive eighteen months of testing, but it hasn't even been eighteen months since this artificial outbreak began.

Edited by Chroma Starlight
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1 minute ago, Chroma Starlight said:
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

The more I dig into Dr. Tess Lawrie the worse it gets. I'm wondering now if she's a straight out antivaxxer.

Be cautious about judgement here. There is a sleight-of-hand going on here that everyone must give due consideration. This is not a vaccine in the tradition of Louis Pasteur's Smallpox Vaccine. This is in fact an unprecedented and unethical mass-scale mRNA-therapy experiment that is being perpetuated upon a largely-uninformed public as some mortifying madly irresponsible alternative to the scientifically-indicated testing, quarantining, and containing of the virus. 

Why do you say it's unethical?

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