Luna Bliss Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 (edited) On 5/21/2021 at 7:50 PM, Arielle Popstar said: I agree with a lot of Vandana's work. The problem is, how do we fix the problem of wealth inequality and the domination of the poor by the wealthy? Do we want a populist, authoritarian takeover led by evangelical science-denying fanatics who want to make society into their reality of what it should be? Or do we want to work toward a true democracy? Unfortunately, nearly all your links lead to those who support the populists. Edited May 23, 2021 by Luna Bliss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share Posted May 23, 2021 42 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: A bizarre statement, given that those who are opposed to the conspiracy theories floated here have flooded the thread with actual science, and references to peer-reviewed and otherwise highly credible factual information. Have you even read the responses of people like Maddy here? I have seen some very insightful posts from you in past as well as some others that just had me shaking my head...like this one.. and yet your potential for being credible is renewed for each new post I see. I don't judge your newest one by whether or not I agreed with one in the past. That pretty much goes for most of the people who have been posting here. I've read posts by most that I very much agreed with but other posts I wondered what they had been smoking. Judge the message, not the messenger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Just now, Arielle Popstar said: I have seen some very insightful posts from you in past as well as some others that just had me shaking my head...like this one.. and yet your potential for being credible is renewed for each new post I see. I don't judge your newest one by whether or not I agreed with one in the past. That pretty much goes for most of the people who have been posting here. I've read posts by most that I very much agreed with but other posts I wondered what they had been smoking. Judge the message, not the messenger. Well, to begin with, the issue of credibility is contextual. If I discover that my doctor voted for a candidate with whom I vehemently disagree, that is probably not, in and of itself, reason to dismiss her views on medicine or my health. If, on the other hand, my doctor reveals that she doesn't believe, the vast weight of scientific evidence notwithstanding, that viruses aren't actually a "thing," or that there is no relationship between HIV and AIDS . . . well, I'm going to find a new doctor, because those views are relevant to her understanding of medical science, and hence potentially to her treatment of me. Similarly, a "science writer" who has revealed in the past that he doesn't believe in, well, science, has pretty much lost any credibility he might have as a source of information on the subject. We also have credentialing for a reason: a epidemiologist with a PhD and years of experience working in the field is a lot more likely to understand the subject than a GP . . . or someone with no medical or scientific training at all. The other, more important point that I was making, however, is that most of those who have responded to the conspiracy theories here (I cited Maddy because her research has been so impressively well-informed and exhaustive, but I could also have mentioned Rowan, Luna, and others) have done so by marshaling facts, gleaned from credible and often peer-reviewed sources. They are not, generally, relying upon ad hominems to make their points, but have instead been deploying science-based evidence to make their points. (Although, again, context with regards to credibility and credentials is not after all entirely unimportant.) 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: I've read posts by most that I very much agreed with but other posts I wondered what they had been smoking. Judge the message, not the messenger. Yeah, I've noticed this too with many posters the wondered what someone was smoking part. But, science aside, this is a good post as I got to thinking about it with Prince Harry speaking out about his issues and how he's being all shot to hell for it and living a dammed if he does/don't life, and the British media still wants to do a smear campaign on him and Meghan with comments like "man up, Harry" or he's pathetic and a coward. I feel he and Meghan have a right to speak about their issues just like anyone else, as one had drug issues and the other was suicidal which I didn't know. I don't want to get into any off topic though I'm just using it as an example. If you go off topic about Harry and Meghan, you do it without me as, again, I'm just using them as an example. Edited May 23, 2021 by FairreLilette 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Is it 4:20 again? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share Posted May 23, 2021 8 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: I agree with a lot of Vandana's work. The problem is, how do we fix the problem of wealth inequality and the domination of the poor by the wealthy? Do we want a populist, authoritarian takeover led by evangelical science-denying fanatics who want to make society into their reality of what it should be? Or do we want to work toward a true democracy? Unfortunately, nearly all your links lead to those who support the populists. You say you agree with him and then in the next breath ask how we fix the problem and in the very next breath show by your attitude why we cannot even begin. You are agreeing with something you are not understanding and will not until you let go of those thoughts and attitudes that cause separations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 49 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: Is it 4:20 again? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 37 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: 9 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: I agree with a lot of Vandana's work. The problem is, how do we fix the problem of wealth inequality and the domination of the poor by the wealthy? Do we want a populist, authoritarian takeover led by evangelical science-denying fanatics who want to make society into their reality of what it should be? Or do we want to work toward a true democracy? Unfortunately, nearly all your links lead to those who support the populists. Expand You say you agree with him and then in the next breath ask how we fix the problem and in the very next breath show by your attitude why we cannot even begin. You are agreeing with something you are not understanding and will not until you let go of those thoughts and attitudes that cause separations. Sounds like cockamamie malarkey to me....can't in the least parse wth you're trying to say...can't wait for you to fill out this theory though...need a laugh.. Vandana is a she, btw. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 I just want to tell the entire forum that if anybody disagrees with my assessments they are practicing cancel culture!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Vandana is a she, btw. And THAT, once again, makes me question if people even check their sources or just post something they think fits their narrative. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 5 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: Judge the message, not the messenger. I judge both. You recently thanked neopolaris for a post raising concern about the presence of SM-102 in Moderna's Covid-19 vaccine. Was that a judgment of the message? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: I just want to tell the entire forum that if anybody disagrees with my assessments they are practicing cancel culture!!! hehehe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 24, 2021 Author Share Posted May 24, 2021 6 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said: I judge both. You recently thanked neopolaris for a post raising concern about the presence of SM-102 in Moderna's Covid-19 vaccine. Was that a judgment of the message? The thanks was for the mention of the vaccine redefinition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profaitchikenz Haiku Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 11 hours ago, Rowan Amore said: Is it 4:20 again? Or 3:00 AM eternal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 22 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: Judge the message, not the messenger. This judging of the messenger is making some people blind though so I'm glad you said it, Arielle. I see it. Even when Trump was right he was wrong simply because he was Trump. I stated on this forum when I thought Trump was right because I am not a cancel person, i.e., it's a Republican, they are all wrong all of the time. I don't live nor think like that. 22 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: Do we want a populist, authoritarian takeover led by evangelical science-denying fanatics who want to make society into their reality of what it should be? Or do we want to work toward a true democracy? The thing with evangelicals and Trump is kind of strange because don't they know how corrupt he is? He doesn't seem to fit in with evangelicals is what I'm saying. So, it was an oddity in many ways. However, simply because a piece of writing is right-wing, it's all wrong? Is that how dems are supposed to think and be? I lean dem but kind of opted out of politics for awhile for my health but I don't cancel stuff out. 13 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: until you let go of those thoughts and attitudes that cause separations. The person that is causing the separation more than Trump was Senator Mitch McConnell in the way he handled the COVID-19 emergency for the American people. McConnell wanted to show he had more power than Trump. But, many say Trump divided us, he did, but, for me, it's the Republican senators that are really causing the separation. I also feel Trump wasn't the right person for the job. I don't want to deal with more Trump-antics. I have an anxiety disorder now because of all of this with Congress and COVID. If anyone read the article I posted, as far as how COVID started, ALL theories are on the table with the scientists investigating this now, including the lab-leak. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 14 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: You are agreeing with something you are not understanding and will not until you let go of those thoughts and attitudes that cause separations. Theresa Tennyson presses her lips together and goes "mmmmMMMMM.!.!.!" 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, FairreLilette said: 23 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: Judge the message, not the messenger. This judging of the messenger is making some people blind though so I'm glad you said it, Arielle. I see it. Even when Trump was right he was wrong simply because he was Trump. I stated on this forum when I thought Trump was right because I am not a cancel person, i.e., it's a Republican, they are all wrong all of the time. I don't live nor think like that. More focusing on weird stuff and missing the main point? In that respect you are like many thinkers who are duped by Trump. You've mentioned many times that you were so right in agreeing with Trump about cancelling flights from China, and then became obsessed with some belief that this is the primary way to control a pandemic. Sure, if a pandemic is manifesting in one part of the world it's good to cancel flights from that location. Duh! But Trump focused on his "astute action" as proof he handled the crisis correctly, when in reality his downplaying of the virus and inability to coordinate with health agencies caused FAR more harm. In other words, his obsession with flights from China and frequent praising of himself was a deflection away from his inept handling of the crisis. And now you're playing into it by launching into some goodie two-shoes dance, touting that you are superior because you don't play politics, evidenced by the fact that you see something good Trump did while imagining others are playing politics by not blissing out over Trumps amazing, astute actions. *shakes head* Edited May 24, 2021 by Luna Bliss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 58 minutes ago, FairreLilette said: 23 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: Do we want a populist, authoritarian takeover led by evangelical science-denying fanatics who want to make society into their reality of what it should be? Or do we want to work toward a true democracy? The thing with evangelicals and Trump is kind of strange because don't they know how corrupt he is? He doesn't seem to fit in with evangelicals is what I'm saying. So, it was an oddity in many ways. However, simply because a piece of writing is right-wing, it's all wrong? Is that how dems are supposed to think and be? I lean dem but kind of opted out of politics for awhile for my health but I don't cancel stuff out. Just no, I have never said any right-wing writing is all wrong -- it is the FAR-right or ALT-right that is wrong -- big difference. Arielle frequently touts the beliefs of the far-right and this is why I challenge her so much. Do you have any idea what has happened to the Republican party? They have become a far-right party and are still loyal to Trump. We don't have a conservative party anymore. They believe the election was a fraud -- this is "the big lie". If they manage to get the reigns of power in '24 it will be a disaster. We are headed toward Christian fascism. It's not weird that Trump aligned with the evangelicals. When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 1 hour ago, FairreLilette said: If anyone read the article I posted, as far as how COVID started, ALL theories are on the table with the scientists investigating this now, including the lab-leak. I don't believe anybody has said we should not investigate all possibilities. What I have said is that Nicholas Wade is incompetent, according to the scientists he mischaracterized, and so we should not give much credence, if any, to his particular theories. We do, however, need to pay attention to the fact that there is an overarching theme occurring here -- an effort by far-right proponents to discredit science in general. Guess who will be elected in '24 if the whole Covid crisis is believed to be caused by science and those they have labeled as 'elites' (ie, the Democrats). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: You've mentioned many times that you were so right in agreeing with Trump about cancelling flights from China, and then became obsessed with some belief that this is the prime way to control a pandemic. Sure, if a pandemic is manifesting in one part of the world it's good to cancel flight I didn't even know that about Trump and canceling flights to China so that is not what I said I agreed with because I didn't even know about it. I agreed with, early on, that the Postal Service should go private, but that's a long story. Later on is what I agreed with in regards to the 2nd stimulus when Trump agreed to the stimulus money but McConell and the rest of the senate republicans would not. I said both presidents agreed with the direct stimulus money, it was congress that caused the problems with their party-politicking during an election year. I agree now that non-essential travel should be postponed until we least get more people vaccinated but that originates with me and it's only recently I see the WHO says cancel travel as a "last resort". 12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Just no, I have never said any right-wing writing is all wrong -- it is the FAR-right or ALT-right that is wrong -- big difference. Arielle frequently touts the beliefs of the far-right and this is why I challenge her so much. Do you have any idea what has happened to the Republican party? They have become a far-right party and are still loyal to Trump. We don't have a conservative party anymore. They believe the election was a fraud -- this is "the big lie". If they manage to get the reigns of power in '24 it will be a disaster. We are headed toward Christian fascism. It's not weird that Trump aligned with the evangelicals. When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. Oh, I see. I thought people were just disagreeing with everything republican here. Sorry for my blunder about that. Edited May 24, 2021 by FairreLilette 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 (edited) I'm totally not one of those who believes in conspiracies. I also question every source for veracity. I find enough credible sources to make me question the origin of the virus. No one has proven where the virus began. I think we all need to keep an open mind and support further investigation. Edited May 24, 2021 by Blush Bravin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 42 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Do you have any idea what has happened to the Republican party? They have become a far-right party and are still loyal to Trump Gosh, reverse those words and you'll get a Democratic party from the "hippie generation" who were far-left or were they? At the time they were but later it has been deemed they were right and the world has matured past some discriminations but still has a far piece to go. This sentence is not to say the alt-right will be right but the hippie generation believed in conspiracy theories and dead puppet people running the government too. Just hear these words "tin soldiers and Nixon's coming, we're finally on our own" from Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young. As far as conspiracy theories they are nothing new but if you read the article I posted from factcheck.org, it says all theories are on the table going forward as many scientists and countries look into the origins of COVID-SARS2 now. As far as Trump and evangelicals, Trump painted himself as some kind of super hero to tear down the corruption in government and the media and many in the right are mimicking him now and I think some view themselves as being the new SJW's. I don't think Trump will be re-elected as one of his last tweets was "I'm not well". He's too old by then to be re-elected and not entirely well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said: I also question every source for veracity. I find enough credible sources to make me question the origin of the virus THIS^ The only thing I take issue with is posting of those questionable sources. Your video was backed up by several reputable sources. Posting videos of random "experts" who post questionable scientific data, is irresponsible. I didn't take issue with the questioning of where the virus started. It should be investigated thoroughly. My issue is usually with the sources some use to back up their position. An opinion is not fact. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 Just now, Rowan Amore said: THIS^ The only thing I take issue with is posting of those questionable sources. Your video was backed up by several reputable sources. Posting videos of random "experts" who post questionable scientific data, is irresponsible. I didn't take issue with the questioning of where the virus started. It should be investigated thoroughly. My issue is usually with the sources some use to back up their position. An opinion is not fact. Completely agree with everything you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/research_and_citation/conducting_research/evaluating_sources_of_information/evaluating_digital_sources.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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