Question about renting land - Group Rezzing

[JuliettRose]

Hi there, 

I am really struggling getting the answer I need and thought maybe somebody can help me with more experience!

I own a region. I have divided some areas into parcels. I am using the CasperLet renting system. The instructions say to create a group, deed the group to the parcel so thatonly members of the group can rent the land. 

I have done all this, however I noticed that all members of the group can rez anywhere. How do I make it so that only renters can rez on their rented land and not all the members of the group? 

What's the point of setting up the group if anybody in the group can rez anywhere? And I thought about removing object entry from group and everybody but then nobody can rez - AND the instructions from CasperLet say to check group only. 

I must be missing something basic here in my understanding but can't seem to find the answers anywhere. Even the CasperLet wiki says you need a group, deed the group, but that is pretty much it. I don't see any instructions about how to set it up so only the renters can rez. I did send them an IT ticket but haven't heard back and it has been almost a week. 

Thanks in advance to anybody who can help me! 

JuliettRose

[Sister Nova]

Hi Juliett. When I have managed an estate in the past it was set up pretty much as you have done so. Only tenants received rez rights by being in the group and MOST people had no problem sticking with their prim allowance and on their own parcels. Each parcel should have all the people that are allowed to rez there on the Casper list for that meter, and that will then let them, and you, know how they are doing with regard to their limit.

However, you will need to monitor the prims on the parcel by going to each and checking the about land objects tab, and then making sure that the only people showing in the objects list are those on the tenant list for the Casper meter for that parcel. If you don't have a bot handling group invites and ejects you will also have to do that manually.

It has been a couple of years since I was involved in doing this, and if there is now an easier way in which to do it, hopefully someone will soon let us know.

Good luck with it!

[RoxyCyn]

Look within the group itself and create separate roles for the members with one role being specific to residents, giving them rez rights.  That should fix the issue, if I'm understanding correctly.  Good luck.

 

[Rowan Amore]

When I've rented on  private estates and not mainland, I 'buy' the land and only have rezzing rights on my parcel with the prim limit already set by the size of the parcel.  I'm invited to the group and the rental agent shows me where my rental box is at.  So if I'm renting a 1024 parcel, I have only 351 prims.  No one has to check to see if I go over.  I can also set the land to my group so my friends can rez items for me if they have something I need.  The land is still technically owned by the rental.company.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Rowan Amore

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

Unless your rental parcels are ownership-transfer so that they are "owned" by tenants (who can then set the land to their own groups), as Rowan said, then I am not aware of any way to restrict rezzing as you request. However, the Casper rental boxes include prim counters, so it's not hard to know 1) when someone goes over the limit, and 2) who has rezzed how many LI on the parcel. Have you joined the Caspertech User Support group? That might be the best place to get more detailed advice. 

[JuliettRose]

Thank you all so much for your helpful replies. A few questions still... if I set up a new role in the group specific to residents how are the active renters added to that role? Does it need to be done manually? Does the group then need to be private? I am not always on every day, so it would be hard for those who have to wait to be added to that role in the group... or do I need to get a bot to do that automatically? Will bots add tenants to specific group roles once they have paid? 

Also - I don't see how CasperLet can do ownership-transfer, there are no instructions on that in their wiki. It is all about renting... I didn't even know there was a Caspertech user support group, but it sounds like that is where I need to ask some of these questions. I haven't had much luck hearing back from them directly with my questions. 

I like the idea of selling the parcels, but I have created a mood on the region, I would hate for somebody to come in and put up something that blocks the views or ruins the vibe. I like that they can control the music, but I see there is an option for that in the group roles also. And I am not too worried about counting prims, like Sylvia mentioned the come with prim counters and also your can set the prim allowances in the back end of the rental. 

Setting up the rentals has been so tough for me I almost gave up! But I have come so far with designing my island... I need to figure it out. I wish I could just pay somebody to do this part for me! 

 

[RoxyCyn]

Look at the Roles.  You can create separate roles (and titles) and give them different powers such as the ability to rez, among others. Some can have limited authority and powers while some have none at all, depending on purpose.

[Prokofy Neva]

15 hours ago, JuliettRose said:

Hi there, 

I am really struggling getting the answer I need and thought maybe somebody can help me with more experience!

I own a region. I have divided some areas into parcels. I am using the CasperLet renting system. The instructions say to create a group, deed the group to the parcel so thatonly members of the group can rent the land. 

I have done all this, however I noticed that all members of the group can rez anywhere. How do I make it so that only renters can rez on their rented land and not all the members of the group? 

What's the point of setting up the group if anybody in the group can rez anywhere? And I thought about removing object entry from group and everybody but then nobody can rez - AND the instructions from CasperLet say to check group only. 

I must be missing something basic here in my understanding but can't seem to find the answers anywhere. Even the CasperLet wiki says you need a group, deed the group, but that is pretty much it. I don't see any instructions about how to set it up so only the renters can rez. I did send them an IT ticket but haven't heard back and it has been almost a week. 

Thanks in advance to anybody who can help me! 

JuliettRose

When you say "region" do you mean on the Mainland or on a Private Island?

If on an island, you can retain ownership of the land and still "sell" the parcel to a tenant who then puts it into her own group.

You write a covenant and copy it into all the parcels in the space that says "covenant". There you can put rules to keep the parcels nice, i.e. no builds over two stories, and then

if violated you can eject for breaking your rental list (put the list of rules in the notecard in the rental box as well). You can revoke the land purchase if it comes to that by taking it back.

If on Mainland, you can't put a covenant into the land tab and you can't turn over the land without real risk of having a neighbour with an ugly build -- and it's theirs once they buy it, you can't revoke it. But you can put a covenant into the notecard lease with rules.

You give them each a prim counter deeded to the group so they count their own prims, most people will be responsible. Yes, you have to check and leave yourself a buffer.

I thought the Casper rental systems automatically showed prims and told people when they were over but I personally do not want to use this system and have my own open source customized rental script.

To avoid having tenants queue up waiting for me to come online, I have join the group on demand and immediately get rez rights and set home rights to start building.

But another role in the group gives the right to turn off build, object entry, scripts, etc. You could decide to add ban lines to that -- I don't, they are a nuisance.

Few rental agencies want to have open groups especially on the mainland. But I don't want an inviter bot taking up space and script time and I find most people are decent and it works fine or I wouldn't be doing it all these years. YMMV.

[JuliettRose]

Prokofy thanks for your post: to answer your question it is a private island not on the mainland. What is your open source called? Maybe I should check it out. Can you explain what you meant by "To avoid having tenants queue up waiting for me to come online, I have join the group on demand and immediately get rez rights and set home rights to start building." Do you mean you just have a link to join the public group? If so, then can't anybody just join and start rezzing? 

Does a bot really use up that much space and script time? 

RoxyCyn: I am starting to understand the different roles now and think that could be a good solution, but when people join the group, do they pick their own roles or do I have to go in and set them for each member? I see the default is Everyone - so lets say I set up a new role for Residents - am I leaving it up to the "resident" to pick their role or do I have to go in and add that member to the resident role. 

Thanks again for helping me! I am so appreciative. 

[RoxyCyn]

Leave the default for general group members, such as you might have a group joiner on a visitor board for example.  For anyone with more than general rights or powers, such as your Residents, you would invite them yourself and while doing so can provide them with the proper role for your intended purpose.  

[JuliettRose]

 

Thanks RoxyCyn, that makes sense to me. I understand the limitations now and the need to manually manage the roles of the group members. Too bad there wasn't a way that only official renters could be added to the group role with rez capabilities automatically. It may be easier to just keep the main everyone role as rez and then check to make sure things aren't crazy, instead of people waiting to be added to the new role manually. Sometimes I take little breaks from SL due to my RL getting busy. I am sure most people renting from me would be respectful of the vibe of the island. I guess time will tell - I love creating atmospheres and environments but could do without this part - unfortunately without some money coming in I can't keep it going! SL is always such a learning journey! Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it. 

[Markham Weatherwax]

When you have a sim with only one group owning parcels of land  then anyone in the group with a role that has group land rez rights can rez on ANY parcel. There is no way to prevent that being that the land is the same owner. You could make, let's say, 4 groups so that people in group 1 can rez anywhere on parcels owned in neighborhood #1, but won't be able to rez in the other "neighborhoods". This will limit your prims for each set of group owned lands. You'd have to add some public land to group 1, some to group 2, etc., to balance that out. 

That is a real pain in the rear and I would not recommend it. I suggest using one group and just keep track of who has prims where. It is not as hard as you think unless you have many different public land parcels (not meaning the rental parcels). All you need to do is go to each  land parcel and return any prims owned by people who should not have prims on that parcel of land. With many separate parcels it can be a lot of work. 

If you click your Casperlet Prim Counter and select Debug Count it will report back who has prims on each and every parcel owned by the group that the prim counter is deeded to. That is helpful if you have many different parcels. You can see if renter #3 has prims on the parcel rented by renter #1, or on some public land.

In About Land for all group owned parcels, you can go to the Options tab and turn off Object Entry for Everyone and also uncheck Group. This will prevent a group member who is on one parcel from moving an object onto the other parcel.

It is very common for a renter to put down a mesh object, then rez another object on top of it or within that mesh physics shape. That will send that new object flying off to end up on other parcels or in the air somewhere. This is the main reason you find renter objects littered around your sim. It was not intentional, and the renter doesn't realize that the object ended up on the other side of the sim. *chuckles*

Unchecking the group object entry helps prevent that. 

 

 

You can sell the land to the renter and have no need of group land or group rez rights. They will only be able to rez on the property they themselves own. That of course limits them (and you) to the parcel land capacity. It is not sharing prims with other same-owner lands. Anything you rez onto that land the renter can return at any time too, so depending on your sim design, that could be problematic. 

When you create your land group YOU will be the one who defines the roles. I never recommend setting that group so that "anyone can join". Make that group specific to your land rental business. Only tenants should be in that group. And certainly, you should get a Smartbot. The bot can be a avatar that you've created, and attached to the Smartbot system. That service will log your bot in and you can set it to park where you want. The bot can be set up in the Casperlet system to invite a new renter to the group you set for the meter. It will also invite any co-tenant that a renter adds to their meter. That bot will automatically eject people from the group if they are evicted on the Casperlet system -  as well as their co-tenants. And also will eject from the group a co-tenant if the primary renter removes that person as a co-tenant on their meter.

There are different types of bots, so that too is going to be a learning curve for you. 

If you do not use a bot, you will have to manually do everything yourself. When someone pays to rent a property, they want immediate access to rez and begin their tenancy. They will not want to wait for you or someone on your staff to login to change their roles or invite them to the group. They paid you, they want it now, not later. *chuckle*

And yes! Do join the Caspertech Support group. It is very helpful. The website also is an exceptionally good resource. I would grab a big cup of coffee, sit down, read it through, make notes, and then read it again. It is a lot of learning, so take it all slowly and learn the basics and you will be fine. It just is not a simple plug and play when setting up and running rental properties.

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Markham Weatherwax

[JuliettRose]

Markham, thank you SO MUCH! everybody has been so helpful, this forum is amazing. I think I know what I need to do now. Make my group private and get a bot to invite the renters. I don't think I want to sell the land, renting is where I am heading. I have come so far with the design and implementation of the private island - I know people will enjoy it, I just need to make it so that it pays for itself! 

I really appreciate you taking the time to write that. The casperlet wiki is great but I find that it assumes that you already know so much. As a person who is new, you don't have that experience of having done it before so it is hard to test and figure out. I ended up creating a second avatar to try renting the property and see what happens which has been helpful. 

Thanks again, your post was super helpful! 

[BJoyful]

Casper will count any renters prims anywhere on the Region.  So if your rentals are set up like a community, you could rent them a number of LI (prims) they can Rez ...so they could Rez anywhere like a beach cabana and an apartment in the sky and be counted by a single region wide prim counter, which must be deeded to the Group. 😋

[RoxyCyn]

For my purposes I have the region on a 10 minute auto return with open rez everywhere.  The residents prims were not on auto return (set within the group).  Everyone could rez and in 10 minutes stuff was returned if they were not actually riding or sitting on it.  Once they stand, auto return takes over.  This way the residents could also rez anyplace, but their stuff was unaffected. This also works with no open rez and a dedicated rez area.  It's not for everyone and their situation, but one that has worked for me.