Why does no one smile in SL?

[Amanda Crisp]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

In case no one has told you, those are not cabbage heads in the garden.

There is a reason that Tralala appears in so many of my pics 🙂

[Lindal Kidd]

On 4/19/2021 at 11:52 AM, Arielle Popstar said:

I usually turn mouth corners up very slightly in the Appearance hud to 55-60 or so depending on the head...

I do this, too! In addition, I wear an "auto emote" HUD. Unlike the random or cycled facial expressions, this device uses key words in text chat to trigger a (hopefully appropriate) facial expression. I find it works fairly well, even if it occasionally results in an expression that's wrong for the situation, and I don't have to be always working some sort of facial controls.

[Ceka Cianci]

It's not a huge smile, but it's a smile.. hehehe

 

[EmmaTyler1]

On 4/19/2021 at 6:32 PM, JordonBanks said:

I am quite new to SL, and I LOVE IT.

But one thing i am starting to notice more and more, is that no one seems to smile, and almost all of the beautiful, creative and fantastic avatars, have very sullen/serious expressions.  Is there a reason for that?  

I did try to experiment with my own head HUD (Lelutka) and did notice that if I did put a permanent smile on my face, it looked more creepy than happy.  So turned it off.  Wonder if this is the same for everyone else, and that it's just hard to capture that normal smiling face in the current virtual technologies used for this sort of thing?

It used to be eyes didn't it with video games  (YES, i know SL is not a game, but you know what i mean) and they could never get the eyes right.  (or am I getting that confused with The Stepford Wives?)

Anyway - would love to be able to have, and see more smiling avatars - how about you ? 😀

I noticed that too and tried to give my avi smiling face but it creeped me out so i turned it of and never used it again.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

Isnt it like, NOT pc to tell people to smile? 

[Coffee Pancake]

2 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Isnt it like, NOT pc to tell people to smile? 

PC has nothing to do with it.

It's just rude.

 

[Penny Patton]

Both my realistic and anime style avatars smile often. I use the facial expressions HUD from Happy Dispatch, which has a large variety of expressions. It allows you to choose eye and mouth expressions individually, and set the strength for each expression. This helps a lot in avoiding the "creepy smile" look so many avatars have.

I think, and I'm guessing here, but at least part of the issue is that a real human smile is not just in the mouth. It's in the eyes, too. Plaster a smile animation on an avatar's mouth but not their eyes and it's going to look weird.

 The other thing I think causes the "creepy smile" look is the strength of the animation. If I overdo the strength of an expression in the Happy Dispatch HUD it does end up looking a bit maniacal.

[Theresa Tennyson]

5 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Isnt it like, NOT pc to tell people to smile? 

Isn't it like, completely irrelevant because nobody's telling anybody to smile in this thread?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

 

1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Isn't it like, completely irrelevant because nobody's telling anybody to smile in this thread?

Isn't this akin to saying "Hey pretty lady, why aren't you smiling?"

On 4/19/2021 at 9:32 AM, JordonBanks said:

Anyway - would love to be able to have, and see more smiling avatars - how about you ? 😀

I'm fairly sure if someone walked up to you on the street and said that you would have a few choice words for them. 

@JordonBanksBecause we don't want to. Nor do we have to. Yes there are technical reasons having to do with animations, but simply put, we don't have to. 

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

5 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

PC has nothing to do with it.

It's just rude.

 

I was trying to be nice... It is fairly rude to ask why someone isn't smiling.  

[Drake1 Nightfire]

[Jax Leeder]

Sometimes I'm really glad that I do not smile all the time in SL - it just looks scary and so false.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Jax Leeder

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Jax Leeder said:

Sometimes I'm really glad that I do not smile all the time in SL - it just looks scary and so false.

 

That's what you get for using FaceApp. 🤭

[Rabid Cheetah]

I have always made sure my main's avi's have a warm inviting smile, even if subtle.  I've had a lot of people tell me I'm gorgeous, even when wearing classic avis.  I've never understood what made me stand out as such, but think I know why now.  It's the smile.  It's gotta be the smile.

I have a Bento-Meshy-Whatever head that comes with a rather long animation cycle, and an AO with a very long cycle of preening and posing with the smart phone it comes with.  It's a great combination.

Personally, I don't much care for the sourpuss look of so many avi faces these days, especially if they're static.  It's creepy and maniquin-like, and reminds me of articles I've read about folks in the robotics field having trouble getting people to like interacting with anthropomorphic robots -- they just don't look real, and it creeps people out on a subconscious level.  Note that folks generally feel that way even with smiling robots.  I hope the tech improves, and am certain it will over time.

So.  As much as I prefer smiling avis, I try not to make a big deal about avi appearance.  Regardless of the game I'm playing, I'm much more focused on player behavior.  Pretty graphics is no substitute for being nice.

[Rabid Cheetah]

Then again, some guys suddenly whip out their...ummm...salamis...yeah, let's call 'em salamis...some guys whip out their salamis clear out of the blue no matter what your face says.

[Rabid Cheetah]

On the other hand, my alt DOES have a sour look, but that's to display her teenage angst.  She never smiles, because I deliberately curved her mouth sides into a frown.  But what do you expect from someone whose got a crossbow that shoots voodoo dolls of the popular girls at school?

[Kia Kiyori]

Gentle smiles are ok - like Cerka's above - but the rictus 'smile' most seem to aim for, is  - well, I guess it's a personal choice but maybe don't be surprised if both children and adults (like me) run screaming.

[Rabid Cheetah]

1 hour ago, Kia Kiyori said:

Gentle smiles are ok - like Cerka's above - but the rictus 'smile' most seem to aim for, is  - well, I guess it's a personal choice but maybe don't be surprised if both children and adults (like me) run screaming.

Why would anyone...um...run away from...uh...a...smile...uh...um...never mind...

[Ajay McDowwll]

I have epic RBF in the physical world.  We can only be grateful my avatar doesn't have quite as much skill with that look as I.

[Sid Nagy]

What is there much to smile in SL with the fees, costs and prices lately?

😁

Edited May 2, 2021 by Sid Nagy
Added a smile.

[Denver Houston]

The uncanny valley is real. I do use Catwa facial animations, but not the ones that show teeth because the antialiasing/shading on my screen looks ... odd. A friend used a phone app to give me a smile showing teeth, but it made me look like a serial killer. The closed mouth smile is better but still a little creepy IMO.

That said, I have another friend who has a really attractive av, but he has resting ***** face and it colors my perception of him. I almost messaged him this morning to ask if he's tried some of the smiling expressions, then I saw this thread.

[JordonBanks]

On 4/27/2021 at 9:26 PM, Theresa Tennyson said:

Isn't it like, completely irrelevant because nobody's telling anybody to smile in this thread?

That is correct.  And just to clarify - my original post was asking the question out of curiosity as to why you don't see many smiles in SL.  I have no opinion on whether people should or shouldn't smile - that's entirely up to them.  But I was just curious as to why seeing smiling SL residents is a rarity.  

I think though, a month or so on since I originally posted, the most common answer to this question is that the current animations available for smiles just make most if us look creepy if we do smile.  Yes, of course there are a few exceptions.  And certainly if you edit your avatar pics outside of SL you can make the smiles look decent in static shots.  But within SL, it appears it's much tougher still.

I just find it interesting though that every other aspect of SL seems to have improved leaps and bounds over the years.  Dance animations are unbelievably realistic nowadays.  Hair and eyes the same.  But the simple smile?  That still seems to be a no go for most of us.

Edited May 12, 2021 by JordonBanks
typo

[JordonBanks]

On 5/2/2021 at 3:57 PM, Sid Nagy said:

What is there much to smile in SL with the fees, costs and prices lately?

😁

Ha.  But seriously - I am new, and I may think different in future.  But at the moment I find the value in SL brilliant.  Sure, it's easy to go 'wild in the aisles' and very quickly overspend buying loads of clothes and accessories.  But individually I think everything is well priced, considering what time and effort must go in to making these things.  And so I am fine with rewarding the creativity by paying.

And there is always the option not to spend.  Yes, it makes it slightly less enjoyable I guess.  but at no point as SL made it compulsory to 'Pay to Play'.  

And when using/exploring/enjoying SL - I always usually at some point find myself smiling or laughing in RL at some of the things people are doing or saying.

[Maitimo]

14 minutes ago, JordonBanks said:

I just find it interesting though that every other aspect of SL seems to have improved leaps and bounds over the years.  Dance animations are unbelievably realistic nowadays.  Hair and eyes the same.  But the simple smile?  That still seems to be a no go for most of us.

I think it's the "uncanny valley" factor.  Full body animations don't seem to trigger it but facial expressions do. And that's not really a game limitation, it's a limitation at human cognitive level. Even movie makers, who have technology way in advance of what's available to a real-time videogame, still don't have the ability to easily break the uncanny valley barrier. And it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to implement.

I mean, it's probably doable (if SL was run by ILM or Weta) but you won't be counting frame rate in frames per second, more like frames per hour. Or per day. 

[JordonBanks]

On 4/27/2021 at 11:14 PM, Drake1 Nightfire said:

 

Isn't this akin to saying "Hey pretty lady, why aren't you smiling?"

I'm fairly sure if someone walked up to you on the street and said that you would have a few choice words for them. 

@JordonBanksBecause we don't want to. Nor do we have to. Yes there are technical reasons having to do with animations, but simply put, we don't have to. 

 

Hey - I don't want to get into a petty argument with you about your misinterpretation of my original post. 

But in answer to your first question.  "Isn't this akin to saying "Hey pretty lady, why aren't you smiling?" - the answer is of course NO, my post is NOTHING like akin to that!

And specifically  - me saying that 'I'd love to see more smiling avatars in SL' , is VERY different to me saying I WANT or DEMAND to see more smiling Avatars.  

My original post (which you've chosen to remove one line and use totally out of context) was very clearly asking the question about smiling avatars out of curiosity. 

And clearly I wasn't asking or trying to force anyone 'to smile against their will'.  People in Second Life can choose to scowl, frown, cry, or bounce their breasts/pecs up and down all day long if they want (which i see a lot of).  Totally up to them.  But I don't see many AVI's smiling, and I was simply curious as to why?

#EndOf

Edited May 12, 2021 by JordonBanks
Typos