Buy Fee Change Discussion

[Monger Lionheart]

7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

 

You may not pay those fee yourself but others certainly do.  As it says, they are a large part of a banks revenue.  And it's all relative as to how much is too much.  An added $600/year is only $12.50/week.  Undoable for many but then so is spending 38200L/wk = $170.  Can't say I've ever spent that in one week, ever.

 

So, because I can afford it i can I should sit back an accept more? Pick any entertainment you enjoy and tell me if that is worth this add'l fee? You are telling ME what I should be willing to pay. Only I can make that decision and because I can doesn't make it right!

[Drake1 Nightfire]

11 minutes ago, Monger Lionheart said:

well i spend about $200US/wk. Do you spend $800US/month? (monthly purchase).

SL is like RL to me. I justify the costs as a substitute for what I would spend going out to the pub in real life (gotta love Covid). 

You spend $800 a month at the PUB?!?!?!? 

And no, i spend about 150 a month, but it is always a once a month purchase. 

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Monger Lionheart said:

So, because I can afford it i can I should sit back an accept more? Pick any entertainment you enjoy and tell me if that is worth this add'l fee? You are telling ME what I should be willing to pay. Only I can make that decision and because I can doesn't make it right!

I'm not telling you any such thing.  But we all make choices on how we spend our disposable income.  Perhaps they should have just increased their % of MP sales.  Charged more for land.  Increased premium membership.  Taken away stipends.  What they did do is spread the increase where it's more evenly distributed amongst the user base.  Most people buy Lindens.  Less people own land or sell on the MP.  Perhaps you have a reasonable alternative as to how LL can increase revenue.  At the end of the day, LL is in business to make money.  Period.

[Monger Lionheart]

13 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

As has been noted within this very thread, some rental agencies actually offer direct payment to them through PayPal. If the one you are going through does not, I suggest you bring it up to them as an option or find one that offers such.

As for your question on the fairness of it? All you need to know concerning my view was summed up in my quoteless response to you a moment ago (in addition to the few other responses I have made throughout this thread).

ETA: To be somewhat clearer and ensure the wrong impression is not given, while I do understand the reaction to the fee change it is the staggering amounts being discussed by some here as their expenditures that has me nonplussed. In some cases that is a good chunk of my RL rent or a segment of my food budget for a given month that some are saying they're spending a week.

I did contact my landlord regarding this very issue and the fact PAYPAL can refund immediately anything up to 180 days old with no recourse for the landlord; they had to stop this offer (my landlord is the best I have ever had in SL and would never refute a charge) after they experienced some chargebacks (many landlords I have known have told me the same thing). I asked if I could buy Lindens from them directlyand I was told it is against LL TOS for them to sell them (except via Lindex where they get a cut). 

Trust me, I would prefer to pay my tier directly to my landlord and just spend money for the Lindens I use for purchases

[Monger Lionheart]

You spend per month what I spend a week on Lindens. Easy for you to tell me to up that 4 fold, its not your money?

I understand the need to generate revenue for growth, but under what business model would this increase be justified? Common sense needs to reign here. If costs must be increased, then spread them amongst everyone. Easy for those of you with no add'l costs to just justify as only $1.65/day. Remember, that's not a total cost but the increase of the cost. Its always so easy to spend another persons money when it doesnt impact you. Most who comment here will pay NO additional fee but will benefit from the upgrades and expect others to foot the bill. So tell me this? Should we all pay or just those who spend more pay the costs to upgrade SL???

[Monger Lionheart]

25 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I'm not telling you any such thing.  But we all make choices on how we spend our disposable income.  Perhaps they should have just increased their % of MP sales.  Charged more for land.  Increased premium membership.  Taken away stipends.  What they did do is spread the increase where it's more evenly distributed amongst the user base.  Most people buy Lindens.  Less people own land or sell on the MP.  Perhaps you have a reasonable alternative as to how LL can increase revenue.  At the end of the day, LL is in business to make money.  Period.

Problem with this response it that according to Linden Labs, the typical user purchases LESS than 2500 Lindens so their net cost will remain the same. The COST is not being distributed evenly, this is my point

[Rowan Amore]

18 minutes ago, Monger Lionheart said:

Problem with this response it that according to Linden Labs, the typical user purchases LESS than 2500 Lindens so their net cost will remain the same. The COST is not being distributed evenly, this is my point

So how would YOU suggest LL increase their revenue?  I'm sorry but not a lot of people are going to be outraged you're paying an extra $12.50/wk.  That's all some can afford, period.

We all want this and that fixed or added but someone has to pay for those employees.  I want, I want, I want but I don't want to pay.  Not how business works and SL is a business.

Anyway, just my opinion and the last thing I'll have to say on the subject.

[Monger Lionheart]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

So how would YOU suggest LL increase their revenue?  I'm sorry but not a lot of people are going to be outraged you're paying an extra $12.50/wk.  That's all some can afford, period.

We all want this and that fixed or added but someone has to pay for those employees.  I want, I want, I want but I don't want to pay.  Not how business works and SL is a business.

Anyway, just my opinion and the last thing I'll have to say on the subject.

In this above scenario are you being impacted? I never said an increase wasn't warranted, I just said there should be a reasonable ceiling. If your costs wont increase then you have no valid input of justifying mine

 

[Solar Legion]

You can afford to pay, in a week, more than most spend in a month. An amount you've admitted was shifted from another weekly expense that was curtailed thanks to the pandemic.

Fee changes are not pleasant. That is the beginning and end of the empathy I - personally - have for those who are much better off that choose to complain.

Struggling content creator/venue owner/similar? They're the ones I am empathetic towards.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

53 minutes ago, Monger Lionheart said:

You spend per month what I spend a week on Lindens. Easy for you to tell me to up that 4 fold, its not your money?

I understand the need to generate revenue for growth, but under what business model would this increase be justified? Common sense needs to reign here. If costs must be increased, then spread them amongst everyone. Easy for those of you with no add'l costs to just justify as only $1.65/day. Remember, that's not a total cost but the increase of the cost. Its always so easy to spend another persons money when it doesnt impact you. Most who comment here will pay NO additional fee but will benefit from the upgrades and expect others to foot the bill. So tell me this? Should we all pay or just those who spend more pay the costs to upgrade SL???

What i said was "Save up for a month, then buy $800 USD worth and save all the fees." 

What are you spending $200 USD a week on? If its land, ask if you can pay monthly. 

[Marianne Little]

I am going a bit off topic and talk about that it has to be a balance in positive and negative changes.

The first time I remember being really exited about LL was when they doubled land a Premium could hold without tier. The second when they made Bellisseria.

Since then, it has been unfortunate monetary things that weigh up for what I felt as fantastic new benefits. Increased Premium fee, increased buy L fees. EEP and the uplift was not having a positive impact on many. A few loved EEP, most adapted and those who use Firestorm, mostly forget it is EEP at all. Some say the cloud is better, some say worse. I can't say I notice much. Selling to Tilia.... feels like we're now only numbers on a sheet.

The last year or two has had changes that has been negative for me in total. I sold all my Mainland and decided only to rent, because suddenly I was paying VAT on tier. I know, VAT isn't something LL is responsible for. But it was no VAT on buying lindens. Then LL adds a feet in addition to the transaction fee.

SL is too much like RL if I have to plan how much to spend and make a budget. I like purchasing things on a whim. If I want a SL life like RL, I can just hit "x" and be in RL instead, right?

If this uplift is so fantastic, why can't we get something out of it, like more land impact per parcel or bigger parcels for Premiums? I need something positive now, to get a good feeling out of SL and immerse myself. When I feel elated, I am not negative to increased fees, because I think they are necessary to run this world for us. 

TL.DR:

Give us something that's positive for your residents now. So we have other things on our minds than costs, budgets and fees. 

 

[Coffee Pancake]

Not alone in feeling generally crushed .. feels like we're just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Not alone in feeling generally crushed .. feels like we're just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

The other shoe is attached to our butts, with our hair.

[Alwin Alcott]

11 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Not alone in feeling generally crushed .. feels like we're just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

one of the next shoes will kick back

[Love Zhaoying]

34 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

one of the next shoes will kick back

Is Boot Scootin' like in song?

[Love Zhaoying]

"Fees high? Ho-hum."

- Giant (often misquoted as, "Fee Fie Foe Fum")

[bigmoe Whitfield]

"this increase is not warrented"  business costs go up, fee's go up,    you hit a point where you need to pass them along or you eat into your profits or you are eating into your hardware, hosting,ect.   Companies can not always bite the bullet and eat everything, they would be out of business quickly if they did.

[Alwin Alcott]

6 hours ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

"this increase is not warrented"  business costs go up, fee's go up,    you hit a point where you need to pass them along or you eat into your profits or you are eating into your hardware, hosting,ect.   Companies can not always bite the bullet and eat everything, they would be out of business quickly if they did.

totally true ... but they have to explain it. And preferably without the blah blah, but simply : we did it bad, we need it . ( and not for the normal maintenance as is one of the reasons now... that is a HUGE red flag for a company)

Edited May 2, 2021 by Alwin Alcott

[RunawayBunny]

I don't understand title of this topic and I am surprised its still going on

I will compare it online games (I know people will say SL not a game etc.. it has same market logic with those games) when you overcharge your market people will seeks something new for their free time.. You will end up loosing money instead of making more.

Even worse outcome you will lose large player base and never able to convince them re-try your game. Eventually resulting shut down.

People who have to discuss this change LL. Not players.

As player and content creator we either accept to price change and keep playing / creating or refuse it and stop playing or stop purchasing / creating.

Edited May 2, 2021 by RunawayBunny

[Sid Nagy]

I can't change fees and yes I can fold and leave as an answer.

And I can express worries about the fees, because I still like the place.
And that is what is happening here for the most part.

But in the end it is take it or leave it
Adjust your lifestyle if needed.

I can build on a premium sandbox instead on my private one.
I can live without land or exclusively on my Bellisseria plot.
I won't walk around like someone homeless when I don't buy another outfit this year and stick with the furniture I already have.
I can tip the staff of venues I visit less.
But is that really what I want, to help out LL and their investors?
Once used to a certain SL lifestyle, how modest it might be, it is hard to cut it back.

My boss isn't shelling out more shekels this year with a percentage that SL raised premium fees and now exchange fees with. So the raised expenses are on me. I have to cut back RL or SL to continue in SL.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Sid Nagy

[LittleMe Jewell]

7 hours ago, RunawayBunny said:

I don't understand title of this topic and I am surprised its still going on

Sometimes we are a chatty bunch, often "just because".

 

We are still talking randomly, pretty much about nothing, in this thread that was started a bit over 4 years ago and has over 4,500 replies

 

And it was a continuation of the original that started in April 2008 in the really old forums and continued for 4176 pages until those forums were shut down.

 

 

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

My boss isn't shelling out more shekels this year with a percentage that SL raised premium fees

I haven't had a raise of 7.5% or more at one time in a very, very long time.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

7 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I haven't had a raise of 7.5% or more at one time in a very, very long time.

Manufacturing jobs are hot right now.   we just went from 12 an hour a year ago, to 18 an hour + 2 dollars for grave yards, so 20 bucks to do a basic job 12 hours a night.   nobody is biting or wanting to work, this is across the whole of manufacturing too, and I'm derailing,  I'll stop.

[Gwendolyn Fonck]

On 4/15/2021 at 5:32 PM, Reed Linden said:

On 2017-11-02 the buy fee was raised from $0.60 to $0.99.  On 2018-07-03 it was changed from $0.99 to $1.49.

Fees have now gone up like 800% for a mid-range linden purchase over the past 4 years.

[LittleMe Jewell]

Just now, Gwendolyn Fonck said:

Fees have now gone up like 800% for a mid-range linden purchase over the past 4 years.

Fees were stable for a very long time before that, far longer than I would have expected.  LL was getting most of their money from land back then and have decided that they need to 'spread the costs around' -- hence MP fee increases and increases in all fees associated with buying & selling L$ and cashing $$ out.