Buy Fee Change Discussion

[FairreLilette]

1 hour ago, Janet Voxel said:

For some people...

Corrected posts to show I meant buy lindens not take lindens out of the game and sell.  I never meant sell at all.  This fee is only for buy orders.

Edited April 21, 2021 by FairreLilette

[LittleMe Jewell]

15 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I was thinking more along the lines of take out meaning withdraw or buy. 

Except that 'withdraw' does not mean 'buy' either.

Take out does mean withdraw, but both of those terms, in regards to SL, would refer to taking money out of SL.

Nobody would ever think that either of those terms means to buy L$.
 

I see that you are thinking "take out" or "withdraw" as in "from your personal payment method", but that is not the meaning to the rest of the world.

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell

[FairreLilette]

55 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Except that 'withdraw' does not mean 'buy' either.

Take out does mean withdraw, but both of those terms, in regards to SL, would refer to taking money out of SL.

Nobody would ever think that either of those terms means to buy L$.
 

I see that you are thinking "take out" or "withdraw" as in "from your personal payment method", but that is not the meaning to the rest of the world.

 

Corrected posts to the word buy as I meant buy all along, not take lindens out of the game and sell them.  This fee is only for buy orders.  

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Janet Voxel]

[LittleMe Jewell]

7 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I say and others I know say..."I need to take out more lindens so I can buy your stuff". 

If you say so.

Can't say I have ever heard anyone phrase it that way before.

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell

[Rowan Amore]

You're just making it worse.

[Alwin Alcott]

[Janet Voxel]

3 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

If you say so.

Can't say I have ever heard anyone phrase it that way before.

 

I have and I've heard people say "I need to upload more Ls" too. It's just....

 

 

 

It's just....a really bad analogy.

[LittleMe Jewell]

8 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

I have and I've heard people say "I need to upload more Ls" too. 

Yikes

I suppose I could understand such from those that are not native English speakers.  Phrasing is sometimes funky for folks where English is a secondary language.

But if English is a person's first language and they phrase it like that, I'd be questioning their education.

Edited April 21, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell

[Rowan Amore]

7 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

I have and I've heard people say "I need to upload more Ls" too. It's just....

 

 

 

It's just....a really bad analogy.

Upload is quite common.  The withdraw analogy with an ATM is not IMO.  If anyone said they were withdrawing, most would think they meant taking Ls out of SL.

[FairreLilette]

32 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Upload is quite common.  The withdraw analogy with an ATM is not IMO.  If anyone said they were withdrawing, most would think they meant taking Ls out of SL.

Not necessarily.  It would depend on context.  If I tell Mr. X in real life who only takes cash and I said I need to withdraw more cash to pay you, he'd know what I am saying.  Just as those inworld would understand if I said I need to withdraw more lindens so I can pay you would.  

Anyhow, I corrected posts and put a correction so we can drop it now. 

Withdraw

to draw back, away, or aside; take back; remove:

She withdrew her hand from his. He withdrew his savings from the bank.

to retract or recall:to withdraw an untrue charge.

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Rowan Amore]

[Lee McKay]

On 4/15/2021 at 4:13 PM, Paul Hexem said:

Server hosting continues to get cheaper and cheaper. Why do we keep seeing increased fees and charges everywhere, but still no significant changes to land costs or tiers?

Especially something like Homesteads, which should be ultra cheap and easy to offer now that you've gone to AWS. 

Where do people get the idea that AWS is cheap? This was a huge expense increase for LL because previously they owned their own hardware, some of which was a decade old.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Lee McKay

[Solar Legion]

9 minutes ago, Lee McKay said:

Where do people get the idea that AWS is cheap? This was a huge expense increase for LL because previously they owned their own hardware, some of which was a decade old.

Partially from data conflation between absolutely basic hosting services/more advanced services and AWS/what LL need(ed/s) for their setup.

This is not a basic web page nor a Minecraft or blasted Game Host Server. The costs simply do not compare at all.

Another user already chimed in earlier to try and correct some of this and was brushed aside/ignored.

[Janet Voxel]

4 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Partially from data conflation between absolutely basic hosting services/more advanced services and AWS/what LL need(ed/s) for their setup.

This is not a basic web page nor a Minecraft or blasted Game Host Server. The costs simply do not compare at all.

Another user already chimed in earlier to try and correct some of this and was brushed aside/ignored.

Get those truths and facts outta heya!!! 
 

This forum runs on opinions and emotions!!!

 

This is SPARTA!!!

 

 

 

 

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

9 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Get those truths and facts outta heya!!! 
 

This forum runs on opinions and emotions!!!

 

This is SPARTA!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

SPARTA!? Oh hell. I must have made a wrong turn somewhere. You see, I was kidnapped by this Prince dude but then someone pushed him down a well and I don't want to go back to Menelaus because he is such a thin skinned pantywaist. Would you be so kind as to tell me how to get to Troy from here? 🤭

[Doc Carling]

4 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Care to explain a hundreds of percent jump in fees for SL, logically? 

You said "fees". I understand that as plural. Sorry, if I got this wrong.

[FairreLilette]

15 minutes ago, Doc Carling said:

You said "fees". I understand that as plural. Sorry, if I got this wrong.

This is a new fee for buying lindens but the fees are variable.  It's not just one fee fits all period.  

Edited April 21, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Paul Hexem]

1 hour ago, Lee McKay said:

Where do people get the idea that AWS is cheap? This was a huge expense increase for LL because previously they owned their own hardware, some of which was a decade old.

AWS makes it immensely cheaper and easier to spin up new servers and take down old ones, than trying to do it with your own hardware.

Arguing otherwise is literally saying that LL, who's known for taking the cheapest solutions available for everything suddenly decided they needed to spend more money on something that wouldn't benefit them in any way.

[Seicher Rae]

15 hours ago, Rathgrith027 said:

I'm surprised anyone even uses MySL these days. I've tried to get into Social Media platforms like Avatarbook and the sort but they never really have any weight to them, and feel like wasted potential that could have been better if they were used to replace mySL with them.

I just never liked mySL due to how barebones and lackluster it was. I'd love a redo of the whole in-world social media system in that vein, but we've got bigger priorities than replacing mySL. Fixing it and Group Chats? Yes, are of moderate priority, at least in my educated opinion, but higher priority is optimizing this burning wreck we call a viewer.

Oh I agree. MySL has been a horror pretty much from the start. Most people don't even know it exists. The history of how it was acquired is interesting, in a scary way. And how LL summarily fired the guy who knew the coding without having anyone else around who knew how it worked... It has always been broken half the time. Limited in its features. Etc. However, it is still there, some of us had been using it for ages, and there is its own little community there. Or was. 

I was not suggesting they replace it. They broke it about 1/2 a year ago and many people lost EVERYthing they had there. A lot of those people had their things restored in a week or two (or three...). But for some of us lucky ones, everything, and I mean everything, was wiped out. Forever, although being told "we're working on it." (Yeah, right.) Years worth of photos. Messages from friends now dead in RL. Contacts. Etc...

That was my rant, added to someone else's rant, about "how about fixing... (whatever) before raising fees?"

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

2 hours ago, Lee McKay said:

Where do people get the idea that AWS is cheap? This was a huge expense increase for LL because previously they owned their own hardware, some of which was a decade old.

Plus AWS provides the maintenance, storage and upkeep on the servers and keeps them updated with the latest back end stuff.

[AdminGirl]

9 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Amazon, Hulu, Netflix, Disney and a whole host of others also implemented fee increases.  Are they updating anything?  The fee increase for purchasing Ls is, in my opinion, an across the board increase that will effect the most users instead of dumping it all on premium members or land owners.  Just as in RL, as region owners (landlords) get an increase in taxes, they'll pass that on to tenants.  It's how the world works.  At the end of the day, LL and Tilia is in business TO MAKE MONEY.

I would not have thought to compare SL to those. Amazon, Netflix, Disney - they do keep up to date, they are updating to keep up with current trends and technology constantly. They are popular, they are growing. When they increase fees, I doubt they lose customers. It makes sense to pay more for services that are up to date. But if what they offered was poor and slow, and things kept breaking, and they hike up fees, well of course it's their business decision, but they risk losing customers. It's good business sense to offer something great and then price accordingly. Supply/demand.

I love SL, but it is ageing and on many levels outdated. Yes, it is a for-profit company and people are obviously happy to pay for it. But there is a point beyond which people would not be comfortable paying more for, and the tricky part for LL is to know where that point is. 7.5% is an aggressive hike, but I'm sure they did their sensitivity analysis on that decision. It's very possible that people would just stop spending here if they feel it's too expensive for virtual goods.

While my first post in this thread was along the lines of "happy to pay more if there are improvements", which can sound entitled, what I really mean is, if I felt that the owners are just trying to squeeze SL dry and drive it to the ground, then I'd just walk away now. SL is a source of entertainment, a luxury, but for many, it is also an investment. Everything you buy here is a form of investment. I wouldn't keep investing in something if I knew it was just going to take people's money and close its doors tomorrow (for example). That's what I mean by wanting to see improvements. I want to see SL to keep going and I want to pay more for it to grow, but their recent moves have not done well for confidence in LL. And while it is a for-profit company, people do choose which businesses they give their money to, mostly based on how much value they perceive getting out of it. People don't blindly pay businesses just because it's a business and they need profit.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you re: profit and increased costs. There's just another side to it is all (from a customer's POV).

[Solar Legion]

Those streaming services make their hikes over a period of time instead of in chunk bursts.

Bit of a difference there.

[AdminGirl]

2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Those streaming services make their hikes over a period of time instead of in chunk bursts.

Bit of a difference there.

Well yeah, I just wouldn't have compared them at all.

[Rathgrith027]

12 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

I hate to say it but this is quite a ginormous increase...makes me think cryptocurrency mining may be coming.  

I mean why take such a risk with this high price and lose some of your customers because of it.  That leads me to think there may be a new kind of customer coming and that kind of customer does not need EEP.  

Many of us thought this new company might be interested in Tilia more than SL.  Now I'm beginning to think this new company wants cryptocurrency mining here.  

If Crypto came to SL it'd ass***** (pardon the vulgarity, but that is what would happen) the economy to the point it'd collapse shortly after due to the fact that only those who had L$ before moving to crypto would be able to get anything.

As much as I tend to both lambast (and defend as well) the Lindens, I don't think anyone in the Financial department at Linden Lab is that stupid, and I'm sure as ***** certain that Upper Management isn't either.