Buy Fee Change Discussion

[SeanDiaz]

1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

 

I think he is saying that he needs 30,000 L$ monthly to pay for his lands -- apparently he rents -- and thus he'll now be paying US $9.99 every month for those 30,000 L$ instead of only $1.49.

 

yeah, that, and i was struggling enough already... i'm honestly thinking i give it up as i can see many others doing the same that have higher rent costs, with the current world economic state and the virus taking mayhem on us this is the most stupidest move ever. it limits people greatly. i feel Punished even for supporting this world with so much money, money mind you that ends going to linden labs via the sim owner. this is just upsetting.

[Jenna Huntsman]

1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

 

I think he is saying that he needs 30,000 L$ monthly to pay for his lands -- apparently he rents -- and thus he'll now be paying US $9.99 every month for those 30,000 L$ instead of only $1.49.

 

That'd be a good guess, although I'm kinda on LL's side on this. If you're spending that much on SL, then a minor bump in the exchange fees shouldn't be a massive factor, especially as it's capped.

[Solar Legion]

My bad. Either way however ....

[Skylar Littlepaws]

Since it's hard to implement on a fee change.  I assume premium fee was just as difficult to do since it is connected to everything as well.  I guess what I am confuse is why was it plausible to give us an advance notice on Premium but not on the Buyer Fee?

[Reed Linden]

5 minutes ago, Skylar Littlepaws said:

Since it's hard to implement on a fee change.  I assume premium fee was just as difficult to do since it is connected to everything as well.  I guess what I am confuse is why was it plausible to give us an advance notice on Premium but not on the Buyer Fee?

Since I did the work on both of those, I can say with confidence that increasing the Premium fee was comparatively easy. 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Reed Linden
better wording, less snark ;)

[Skylar Littlepaws]

1 minute ago, Reed Linden said:

Since I did the work on both of those, I can say with confidence that increasing the Premium fee was actually very easy.

Ah!  So what made Premium version easy and the buyer fee difficult?
Also, since you said it took a long time to implement it on the buyer fee, why not announce it that you were planning on making the increase?

[Reed Linden]

9 minutes ago, Skylar Littlepaws said:

Ah!  So what made Premium version easy and the buyer fee difficult?
Also, since you said it took a long time to implement it on the buyer fee, why not announce it that you were planning on making the increase?

To the first: it was a constant, static value that only had to be changed in a limited number of places and there was no logic change required. In contrast, the lindex had no concept of percentage based buy fees prior to this change, nor did it have the concept of a floor and a ceiling to fees. All of that had to be implemented from scratch.  From here on out, we can now change the static values of those fields as necessary in much the same way as we did with Premium prices earlier.

To the second: I cannot give you an explicit answer here. We would have preferred to provide more heads up to the community about this, and in the future it is our goal to do so. In this specific case, it was not possible to do so.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Reed Linden
an extra 'the'

[Skylar Littlepaws]

1 minute ago, Reed Linden said:

To the first: it was a constant, static value that only had to be changed in a limited number of places and there was no logic change required. In contrast, the lindex had no concept of percentage based buy fees prior to this change, nor did it have the concept of a floor and a ceiling to fees. All of that had to be implemented from scratch.  From here on out, we can now change the static values of those fields as necessary in the much the same way as we did with Premium prices earlier.

To the second: I cannot give you an explicit answer here. We would have preferred to provide more heads up to the community about this, and in the future it is our goal to do so. In this specific case, it was not possible to do so.

I see.  Why wasn't plausible to share the information?  I assume there were talks being made and when you decided to do it and work on these changes that could have been the time to share it?  It would be great to have a transparent relationship with both staff and the community.

The reason why most consumers get upset with companies in general is because there isn't any transparency between consumer and staff.  It seems there is changes without at least notifying consumers well advance.  I've seen it happen on many online gaming companies, and I have seen the backlash it puts onto people.  I don't want to see it happen here which is kind of shocking to see it is happening because this company is great and has done a lot for community, and I want to see it continue to do so.  That's why it is shocking for me to see this short announcement to us of being informed.  

[Reed Linden]

3 minutes ago, Skylar Littlepaws said:

The reason why most consumers get upset with companies in general is because there isn't any transparency between consumer and staff.  It seems there is changes without at least notifying consumers well advance.  I've seen it happen on many online gaming companies, and I have seen the backlash it puts onto people.  I don't want to see it happen here which is kind of shocking to see it is happening because this company is great and has done a lot for community, and I want to see it continue to do so.  That's why it is shocking for me to see this short announcement to us of being informed.  

I agree, and I appreciate your concern!  It is our intention to give much more notice in the future.

[JanuarySwan]

28 minutes ago, Jenna Huntsman said:

That'd be a good guess, although I'm kinda on LL's side on this. If you're spending that much on SL, then a minor bump in the exchange fees shouldn't be a massive factor, especially as it's capped.

Yes but some don't like it, I'm assuming some may feel they are being marginalized.  So what about a perk of some kind for those paying $9.99?  

I believe SL overall has had land prices come down and prim allowances went way up from before from what I've heard; so, maybe some can look to the perks they already do have so this doesn't look so gloomy.  

Edited April 16, 2021 by JanuarySwan

[Jenna Huntsman]

4 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

Yes but some don't like it, I'm assuming some may feel they are being marginalized.  So what about a perk of some kind for those paying $9.99?  

I believe SL overall has had land prices come down and prim allowances went way up from before from what I've heard; so, maybe some can look to the perks they already do have so this doesn't look so gloomy.  

Unfortunately, that's not how a currency exchange works.

Also, it's important to bear in mind that LL haven't really adjusted the fees to account for inflation in this period, as well as transferring to a new payment provider (Tilia), so Tilia fees also factor into this change.

[JanuarySwan]

10 minutes ago, Jenna Huntsman said:

Unfortunately, that's not how a currency exchange works.

Also, it's important to bear in mind that LL haven't really adjusted the fees to account for inflation in this period, as well as transferring to a new payment provider (Tilia), so Tilia fees also factor into this change.

So, what about making those who pay $9.99 a prime member and they get some perks but doesn't have to be lindens?  

[Coffee Pancake]

6 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

So, what about making those who pay $9.99 a prime member and they get some perks but doesn't have to be lindens?  

There are no perks left. Freebie accounts already get everything.

[Jenna Huntsman]

8 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

So, what about making those who pay $9.99 a prime member and they get some perks but doesn't have to be lindens?  

Then you'd get blowback from a lot more people that pay for premium membership being locked out of aforementioned perks, not to mention free members. Essentially anything that they could offer would devalue Premium or Premium plus (whatever that entails)

[Cynical Cloud]

On 4/15/2021 at 10:18 PM, Chic Aeon said:

So when was the last Buy Fee increase?   Not all that long ago. I never buy lindens so not something I pay attention to.   I bet @LittleMe Jewell knows that date or where to look it up.

I WILL say personally that I am glad that "this time" the increase didn't JUST impact the creators ^^ .   

 

This "could" make Premium look a bit better to some folks that buy lindens fairly often. It still boggles my mind though that people don't seem to realize that The Lab is just giving people back some of the money they paid in for their Premium fee (laughing).  For a decade some folks were just saving their "free stipend money" ( free in some people's eyes anyway) and then using that to pay for their next year's Premium fee. That no longer works and there has been an impact from that change -- no clue how much, only that some of my RL friends are going back to basic or have.   

 

I'd agree with this if the Lab had introduced a lower buy fee for premium users, maybe that's something they should consider? It'd be a hell of an extra incentive to join, and I'm already premium.

Tbh I'd prefer lower buyer fees over a weekly stipend

On 4/15/2021 at 10:32 PM, Reed Linden said:

On 2017-11-02 the buy fee was raised from $0.60 to $0.99.  On 2018-07-03 it was changed from $0.99 to $1.49.

Quoted so I could get your attention, not sure how to mention someone lol

[SeanDiaz]

29 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

Yes but some don't like it, I'm assuming some may feel they are being marginalized.  So what about a perk of some kind for those paying $9.99?  

I believe SL overall has had land prices come down and prim allowances went way up from before from what I've heard; so, maybe some can look to the perks they already do have so this doesn't look so gloomy.  

ii would say if they compensated, that cost with 2k extra lindens or something it would at least be less painful for the users and stimulate economy.

[Reed Linden]

2 minutes ago, Cynical Cloud said:

I'd agree with this if the Lab had introduced a lower buy fee for premium users, maybe that's something they should consider? It'd be a hell of an extra incentive to join, and I'm already premium.

Tbh I'd prefer lower buyer fees over a weekly stipend

Quoted so I could get your attention, not sure how to mention someone lol

Attention gotten! I won't personally rule out some premium feature tied to lindex fees in the future, but it's not currently planned.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

1 hour ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I bet he sounds just like a cat when you do that.  MEEEEEE YEEEEOOOOOOOOWWWWWW! 🤭

Sure does.  He had one of those electrocardiograms last year and the NP let me have the joy of ripping those sensor thingies off! 🤣
It was priceless!  The visit cost us average of 2 months full sim rent!

[Cynical Cloud]

Just now, Reed Linden said:

Attention gotten! I won't personally rule out some premium feature tied to lindex fees in the future, but it's not currently planned.

Welll the fact that I got your attention and your reply has ended my day on a somewhat positive not, thank you, I will keep my fingers crossed reed

[JMB Balogh]

Well for me who will now have to pay the maximum fee per month, that will be a 570.47% increase in the fee!  Imagine your bank increasing their fees by that percentage!  

[Jenna Huntsman]

5 minutes ago, SeanDiaz said:

ii would say if they compensated, that cost with 2k extra lindens or something it would at least be less painful for the users and stimulate economy.

Because then it wouldn't be an exchange fee, you're just paying for more Lindens.

[JanuarySwan]

5 minutes ago, JMB Balogh said:

Well for me who will now have to pay the maximum fee per month, that will be a 570.47% increase in the fee!  Imagine your bank increasing their fees by that percentage!  

I have to agree with you, it's high.  My bank better be giving me a free dinner or something.  But, I don't have any suggestions for perks other than something that would go along with being a preferred or premium member.  

 

14 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

There are no perks left. Freebie accounts already get everything.

Freebie accounts don't get everything, so I don't understand this.  There are Premium members who say they can get into sales right away while us free accounts are praying for days.  So, free accounts get everything like...?

[LittleMe Jewell]

19 minutes ago, Cynical Cloud said:

Tbh I'd prefer lower buyer fees over a weekly stipend

Me too -- especially since I spend far more than the stipends of all of my Premium accounts, and thus buy plenty of L$

 

20 minutes ago, Cynical Cloud said:

Quoted so I could get your attention, not sure how to mention someone lol

Type the @ symbol followed by the person's name -- select them from the list that pops up.

[JMB Balogh]

Well for me who will now have to pay the maximum fee per month, that will be a 570.47% increase in the fee!  Imagine your bank increasing their fees by that percentage! 

I'm already a premium member and have been since 2008 so I pay that fee along with a whack of US dollars for tier as well. Not only that I am paying with Canadian dollars so that is actually a $15 fee for me. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

48 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

There are no perks left. Freebie accounts already get everything.

We do? Since when? And why have I never gotten mine? Not long ago they were trying to take away some of our groups so premiums could have more. That's not how you treat people if you want to retain customers. Problem is, those that care are powerless and those that don't care have all the power.

As a basic account I have spent thousands of dollars in SL over 15 years, most of which went for tier on a rented homestead. I "paid my dues" yet I'm not getting any of the benefits. That's how it really works. And that's one of the reasons I'm on my way out, again. This time there won't be any coming back to SL. They're making it to where I can't even afford to be basic.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker