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1 hour ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Just wondering... why exactly are you rezzing encroaching objects in that situation?

I'm not doing it on purpose, I was living there long before her and I had 3 neighbors before her, and we were in good terms and I've become friends with some of them, none of them saw any object encroaching in their land no visible objects or land impact, I don't know how she can return my landscape, I made sure it's all in my land, and yet she can return them, I don't know how she can scan it, because in her parcel there's no objects from others, it's 0, you can clearly see she's digging the ground looking for troubles.

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Your objects don't appear in the list of objects in the about land of others even if they encroach nor do they affect their LI.  That would be the case whether your object was visually undetectable and over the line by a smidgeon or whether you rezzed a massive structure that was anchored on your land and overhanging theirs quite prominently and significantly.

I think there is more to this story.

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17 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I think there is more to this story.

I wondered the same. The land description of the neighbor's parcel says "You may Derrender anything even ban lines  I laugh and do not entertain Drama llamas.... ", so it might be interesting to hear the neighbor's thoughts. 

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58 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Your objects don't appear in the list of objects in the about land of others even if they encroach nor do they affect their LI.  That would be the case whether your object was visually undetectable and over the line by a smidgeon or whether you rezzed a massive structure that was anchored on your land and overhanging theirs quite prominently and significantly.

I think there is more to this story.

They shouldn’t be returnable, though, if the anchor is on the proper parcel. Unless something in land ownership capabilities has changed in the last 15 years. 😕 But I also don’t think it’s be possible to check your items in “about land” if you don’t have ownership of that parcel, or rights within the group that the parcel is deeded to. 
 

Don’t get me wrong, she’s probably a frustrating neighbor, but I also don’t consider it to be bad behavior ONLY for returning infringing items. After all - we all pay for our square meters and the Li that comes along with it. 

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5 minutes ago, norajulian said:

They shouldn’t be returnable, though, if the anchor is on the proper parcel. Unless something in land ownership capabilities has changed in the last 15 years. 😕 But I also don’t think it’s be possible to check your items in “about land” if you don’t have ownership of that parcel, or rights within the group that the parcel is deeded to. 
 

Don’t get me wrong, she’s probably a frustrating neighbor, but I also don’t consider it to be bad behavior ONLY for returning infringing items. After all - we all pay for our square meters and the Li that comes along with it. 

Yes something did change in the last 15 years.  In January 2011 (mainland got it by 15th March 2012) things were changed so that if the bounding box of an object goes over the parcel boundary, it can be removed by the other parcel owner.

Parcel Encroachment

Edited by Gabriele Graves
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a massive structure that was anchored on your land and overhanging theirs quite prominently and significantly.

The only big object i had was a cliff, and it's not affecting her land whatsoever, as i said i had 3 neighbors before her none of them said anything, returned anything, they even loved my landscape.

Quote

I wondered the same. The land description of the neighbor's parcel says "You may Derrender anything even ban lines  I laugh and do not entertain Drama llamas.... ", so it might be interesting to hear the neighbor's thoughts. 

 I logged in one day and saw that she returned half of my landscape, my land looked awful, at that time i got furious ( and I couldn't talk sense to her, she already sent me a bad message and when you reply; you get a bad auto response) anyway I had a tall building in the place of my landscape that has been gone ( giving her this view) till I figure out what I will do with my land now that I can't re-landscape it, it's too exhausting, i did try and she kept return it, I removed the building few day later, I'm not that kind of person, i never use ban lines or even orbs ( she's the one using ban lines not me, I banned only her and her male alt from my land),  i love making beautiful places and that big land was for public, I pay for more than 14k sqm of land for others to enjoy, I gain nothing, what possibly would I want from her or her parcel?!

Some people are just like that, they have some issues, not friendly and with low manners.

And btw what you're doing is creepy, why do you care so much as to go and investigate?

I have the chat logs, you can ask her if you really care that much, whatever she will say it's all recorded in chat logs.

-----

I did not want a solution for my problem as I said here:

Quote

I won't go in the details

Yet I kinda did now.

Anyway I'm just sharing a bad experience with a neighbor giving an example of what a really bad neighbor is.

 

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10 minutes ago, SarahThe Wanderer said:

The only big object i had was a cliff, and it's not affecting her land whatsoever, as i said i had 3 neighbors before her none of them said anything, returned anything, they even loved my landscape.

 I logged in one day and saw that she returned half of my landscape, my land looked awful, at that time i got furious ( and I couldn't talk sense to her, she already sent me a bad message and when you reply; you get a bad auto response) anyway I had a tall building in the place of my landscape that has been gone ( giving her this view) till I figure out what I will do with my land now that I can't re-landscape it, it's too exhausting, i did try and she kept return it, I removed the building few day later, I'm not that kind of person, i never use ban lines or even orbs ( she's the one using ban lines not me, I banned only her and her male alt from my land),  i love making beautiful places and that big land was for public, I pay for more than 14k sqm of land for others to enjoy, I gain nothing, what possibly would I want from her or her parcel?!

Some people are just like that, they have some issues, not friendly and with low manners.

And btw what you're doing is creepy, why do you care so much as to go and investigate?

I have the chat logs, you can ask her if you really care that much, whatever she will say it's all recorded in chat logs.

-----

I did not want a solution for my problem as I said here:

Yet I kinda did now.

Anyway I'm just sharing a bad experience with a neighbor giving an example of what a really bad neighbor is.

 

You had the land listed for sale here in the forums. I buy Mainland now and then, so I went to check it out.

https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/470308-for-sale-alpine-bayway-14736-sqm-5059-prims-85k-l/

Do you call all potential land buyers "creepy"? If you don't want people there, don't list the land for sale. Simple!

Honestly, I am starting to sympathize with the neighbor here. 

Edited by Sylvia Tamalyn
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9 minutes ago, SarahThe Wanderer said:

The only big object i had was a cliff, and it's not affecting her land whatsoever, as i said i had 3 neighbors before her none of them said anything, returned anything, they even loved my landscape.

 I logged in one day and saw that she returned half of my landscape, my land looked awful, at that time i got furious ( and I couldn't talk sense to her, she already sent me a bad message and when you reply; you get a bad auto response) anyway I had a tall building in the place of my landscape that has been gone ( giving her this view) till I figure out what I will do with my land now that I can't re-landscape it, it's too exhausting, i did try and she kept return it, I removed the building few day later, I'm not that kind of person, i never use ban lines or even orbs ( she's the one using ban lines not me, I banned only her and her male alt from my land),  i love making beautiful places and that big land was for public, I pay for more than 14k sqm of land for others to enjoy, I gain nothing, what possibly would I want from her or her parcel?!

If they managed to return half of your landscape then it was encroaching in a significant way and they had the right to return it.

Edited by Gabriele Graves
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2 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

You had the land listed for sale here in the forums. I buy Mainland now and then, so I went to check it out. Do you call all potential land buyers "creepy"? If you don't want people there, don't list the land for sale. Simple!

Honestly, I am starting to sympathize with the neighbor here. 

for once, i wish if I see you acting your age, and not with this childish attitude, and laughing emoji on every post you don't like.

3 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

If they managed to return half of your landscape then it was encroaching in a significant way and they had the right to return it.

ok.

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2 minutes ago, SarahThe Wanderer said:

for once, i wish if I see you acting your age, and not with this childish attitude, and laughing emoji on every post you don't like.

ok.

If you say something I feel is silly, and it makes me laugh, then I will laugh. You are in control of what you post. :) 

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1 hour ago, Gabriele Graves said:

If they managed to return half of your landscape then it was encroaching in a significant way and they had the right to return it.

This goes on to what to do if you turn out to be the bad neighbour. Don't rant if someone returns one of your objects. Figure out why it's encroaching (remember it's the bounding box, not the bits you see). You can just fix the issue, but if you're going to contact them, try something like, "Sorry, I hadn't realised it was over the line. I'm looking at some alternatives."

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On 4/6/2021 at 1:48 PM, norajulian said:

The title sounds aggressive, but this is more a query than anything. I’d considered posting this in the Mainland section, but realized that although my specific land in question is mainland, I’m sure this is a situation that renters on private regions can also relate to. 
 

The question: How do you be a good neighbor? 
 

I have finally, after a few different characters in SL, some breaks, and lots of interesting adventures into non-mainland renting, have obtained mainland (abandoned land!) in a lovely, relatively open area, with somewhat distant neighbors who seem to use their parcels as sandboxes to unpack items. As somebody who adores landscaping and decorating, but also enjoys her privacy, I would like to do a tasteful border and set up on my parcel, but also don’t want to upset anyone by using large cliffs. 
 

I know -mainland is free game and you do what you want because you pay for it, blah blah, but I also don’t wish to ruin the grassland vibes happening and upset folks. I’ve always rented my private region areas where terraforming is already blocking the views to guarantee privacy, so this is a relatively new concept to me, despite my many years in SL. 
 

SO! Is 15s warning on an orb acceptable (to still allow for flyers, of course)? Would you consider nicely textured cliffs and/or pine trees around a border unsightly? If I were to decorate a retirement home with a wheelchair racing track and hosted bingo Thursdays, would the joyful sounds of dentures clacking together in laughter around 6pm SLT keep you up at night?
 

What are some things have you seen that would make somebody a bad neighbor? 


I’m quite sure this is all a personal preference, so please don’t attack each other in the comments. 💖

I don't allow orbs on my land except for in the sky and there I prefer 20 seconds warning, but that's just me. As you said, you can do "WTF" you want on your land on the Mainland, that is the principle, although Phillip originally said this, in response to my question as to whether the Lindens were hoping to drive people to private islands, which are more expensive:


"I'd say, stay on the mainland, the idea of clustering and the magic spell of working with your neighbors is just a great appeal." Philip Linden, Town Hall, Second Life, 7/7/06

Clustering.

Magic Spell.

Great Appeal.

I realize for many people, that runs completely at odds with their notion of "Mainland," but I still find it to be true -- which is why I bother.

I think it's more than fine to put up cliffs and artificial landscaping -- many do now, to cope with the problem of those old Mainland ground textures which are from hunger -- few of them are appealing, and the Moth Continent ones are especially appalling.

The thing that bothers me most about some neighbours, after their ban lines, which I can't do anything about, is any sort of "photo real" board and box over their land for "privacy" -- and planar trees from the early days of SL which still persist.

There is nothing more jarring and ugly in SL, which has a kind of drawn, pastoral background installed by the Lindens that is "real" but not "hyper real" -- than to see "photo real" pictures from RL, often a beach in the middle of flat lands or flat lands on mountains or snow on non-snow. Why people don't just go get beach land or mountain land in fact which you can get, and not necessarily for a fortune, is beyond me, but there it is, people love putting sandy beaches on to the New England coasts of Sansara and it's a real bringdown.

They put in photo-real boards or flat trees of course to save prims, but there are now low-LOD 3D trees out there from a variety of merchants and they should make an effort. I'm half considering sending a bundle of such trees as a gift to one neighbour who is particularly stuck on her 2007 planar trees...

I wouldn't mind the clacking of dentures or whir of wheel chair races at all, because you can check off those sound boxes.

But one thing you can't stop is "media on a prim," which is kind of a pernicious thing all around, when you think of it. The experience is sub-optimal, so why not just tab out of SL and watch it there? You can't shot off "autoplay" within SL so you are often going to get content you didn't intend. It blares all day when you're there -- not everyone will figure out right away to block the prim and therefore mute the sound automatically (because putting sound only on your parcel does no good for MIP). If you keep changing the prims, yes, people have to keep muting it. So why not dispense with it entirely? I have gone around and shut down a lot of my MIP as much as I liked having it for tutorial or educational purposes because the sound carrying drives me crazy, let alone everyone else.

The other thing to consider is to step back from the border line and not build big black boxes smack on the property line. I think 32 is ideal. Others find that on a 1024 that's not fair to ask. But surely 16.

I just finished making a nice little area with the artificial landscaping and a new house etc. and I could have set my watch by this, because I think there are forces in the Metaverse that "just know" when you are trying to make a nice little area -- and respond accordingly. I saw a neighbour set land to sale to herself who had ban lines for 10 years, ever since I wouldn't sell her my water (because I wanted to keep the river clear and I was right to do so). So another neighbour and I set to speculating about "what next". If we could have stayed awake in shifts, we would have! That land was going up for sale and likely it wouldn't be at an unrealistic price in this relative backwater so one of us could to get it. But both of us even on different time zones had to sleep and whoops, we woke up with a big black box and dungeon inside next to us where once there were ban lines, but at least a presentable normal house with landscaping etc.

So now every one for miles can look at a...black box. Why someone would put a black box of THIS nature on the ground, and not in the sky, for "privacy," is beyond me, but see above re: "WTF on your land".

In these cases, my instinct -- and my neighbour agreed -- was to say, as T.S. Eliot once did, "Time heals all wounds. The patient is not there."

We had a hunch Mr. Black Box might be gone soon enough. It wasn't clear that he'd actually bought the land - it may have been gifted or given at a token price and soon he'll have the reality of tier to shake him out of his Black Box reveries, originally induced, no doubt, by a reading of "Snowcrash".

Yes, on Firestorm you can de-render Black Boxes -- but their content changes and you have to keep de-rendering that, too, and it's a chore.

 

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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1 hour ago, Polenth Yue said:

This goes on to what to do if you turn out to be the bad neighbour. Don't rant if someone returns one of your objects. Figure out why it's encroaching (remember it's the bounding box, not the bits you see). You can just fix the issue, but if you're going to contact them, try something like, "Sorry, I hadn't realised it was over the line. I'm looking at some alternatives."

You never said a truer word. I have one neighbour now ranting at me and threatening big flashing spinning ugly builds because I wrote a note, "Sorry, I returned your trees but you weren't online, etc".  I try to first constant people. But sometimes they are never online -- for years at a time. So I return them.

One thing I've noticed is that Linden trees do not follow this "new" rule. That is, if a Linden tree encroaches, even very, very obviously, you CANNOT return it. Sometimes about its nature, which isn't a prim but something else, or at least following other laws of physics or something. Abuse reports can literally be filed for years and get no answer -- but generally I find that after a year, you can get it done if you keep repeating it. 

The fact is, if  I can return them, they are encroaching. You know? I mean, with the "new" tools that enables us to do this now and not call Lindens to do it. So it's not personal. They encroach, there's a tree in my living room, I return it, you know? No reason to get upset. Put it out somewhat further away, turn on "property lines" etc. 

No need to put up those "crime scene" yellow tape things -- and leave them there for ever -- because you can see "property lines" right from within the viewer, you know? World/show/property lines, walla.

To be sure, if someone is returning an entire building constantly from their...16 m parcel...I do see that as hostile. It can be exasperating sometimes seeing that bounding box. It means turning off "hide transparent" but that doesn't always seem to do it. Especially on water, there is an optical illusion. I always put a board on the property line under the water, and bring it up to see exactly where I am because you can be way off.

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This tread is also about returned landscaping and it discusses bounding boxes. I could not find out if the solution to see bounding boxes was found. This OP there got her issue solved when the merchant sent her a cube that showed the bounding box.

 

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1 hour ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Or let's just leave it to them and not bother anyone else. There might be positive aspects in that.

I had no intention of contacting anyone, but there would be no need now in any event. I think I have a pretty clear view of what was going on, based solely on the testimony of the complaining party. 

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On 4/9/2021 at 8:19 PM, Pussycat Catnap said:

 

Don't use sculpties... just... don't... see the note about pimp canes and goldfish shoes, and ad a footnote about pet rocks and mood rings. You're dated... it's 2021. :P
- I know a lot of people still use sculpty trees but... there are some really nice low land impact AND low lag mesh ones out there. And they just look better, and cause less lag. YES some mesh items are extremely lag-toxic... Mesh can be good or bad, but sculpty is always 'kinda bad'.

 

 

 

I was looking for mesh palm trees... but Hearts old Sculpty ones are still the best. Alirium too... sculpty but still unsurpassed by anything in mesh. Why big Estates like the Fruit Isles and Sailors Cove use them.

Not all sculptys are bad.

Edited by Aethelwine
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Encroachment is a problem if the neighbours branches stretch into your living room... or otherwise interfere with what you are doing or wanting.

But a blanket no encroachment policy is no good for anyone, if you start returning every bounding box that strays over your land.. then expect the same back. Expect not to enjoy sky domes up in the sky or any of the other useful building options we have for maximising use of our space and the tier we pay.

I approach my parcel and the way things fit in with neighbours to maximise value and potential for both of us, not engaging in stupid dramas over encroachments that only end up in both parties only being able to achieve a minimum value from their investments. 

Edited by Aethelwine
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There are some confusions with the bounding box view. It includes the boxes around the terrain and such, which aren't your problem. I've also found it places an extra box around items close together, which isn't used for returning as far as I know and seems to be marking where the box would be if they were linked. So focus in on the object you're checking and find the box for that object only (or if it is linked, the one for the linkset).

Most basic prims and mesh will have a box about the same size as the object. The problem items are anything linked and sculpties. Simple sculpties are usually not that bad, but the complex shapes do some odd stuff.

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