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New FS Viewer...6.4.13...Looks Like BLEEEEEEEP!


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1 minute ago, Qie Niangao said:

Perhaps to document my need for a new computer:

Catznip R13.0.4 - Jan 11 2021 01:19:51 (64bit) (Catznip Beta)
Release Notes

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3450 CPU @ 3.10GHz (3103.05 MHz)
Memory: 8151 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10 (Build 19042.867)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 660/PCIe/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 27.21.14.6109
OpenGL Version: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 461.09

Window size: 1920x1177
Font Size Adjustment: 96pt
UI Scaling: 1
Draw distance: 96m
Bandwidth: 500kbit/s
LOD factor: 1.125
Render quality: 6
Advanced Lighting Model: Enabled
Texture memory: 682MB
VFS (cache) creation time: January 26 2021 03:42:22

RestrainedLove API: (disabled)
J2C Decoder Version: OpenJPEG: 2.3.1, Runtime: 2.3.1
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Studio 2.01.04
Dullahan: 1.7.0.202008031800
  CEF: 81.3.10+gb223419+chromium-81.0.4044.138
  Chromium: 81.0.4044.138
LibVLC Version: 2.2.8
Voice Server Version: Not Connected
April 11 2021 02:55:08

And perhaps some really good internet? 

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I work on Catznip with @Kitty Barnett (who is also on the Firestorm team). Our goal is to take the Linden viewer and add features with a more thoughtful take. We don't import code from other viewers (

/me hurriedly puts her phone down. What? WHAT? Don't look at me like that!

That one did come up in the search and - from what I can see - is not exactly related to Microsoft in any real way. it is a developer attempting to cash in on the Microsoft name while offering what am

Posted Images

0WHGKhB.gif
 

___________

Out of curiosity, what's the extent of the RLV Api readout? This one: "RestrainedLove API: (disabled)" - depending I could see that as perhaps a bit private. Perhaps the equivalent of having to call a locksmith because the key for the kinky handcuffs vanished.

 

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4 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

And perhaps some really good internet? 

Oh, the "Bandwidth: 500kbit/s" part? That's the "Maximum bandwidth" in "Setup" preferences, which I understand to only throttle some UDP communications which should be pretty limited at this point. It's been years since I've noticed that setting having any effect, but maybe I just don't know how to look for it. (The network itself is pretty okay for DSL—50 Mbps down, 10 up—good enough I haven't yet upgraded to fiber-to-the-premises.)

8 minutes ago, ValKalAstra said:

RLV

I dunno. The fact the text includes a line for RLV is wholly redundant with the viewer identity: if using Firestorm, RLV status gets a line. I suppose having it enabled or disabled suggests something to some folks, but there are plenty of non-kinky reasons to enable RLV, and non-prudish reasons to disable it.

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If you think hardware information is sensitive information then I suggest you cancel your social media accounts and turn off all the devices.

Also I use Catznip on my potato laptop for years.

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2 hours ago, ValKalAstra said:

0WHGKhB.gif
 

___________

Out of curiosity, what's the extent of the RLV Api readout? This one: "RestrainedLove API: (disabled)" - depending I could see that as perhaps a bit private. Perhaps the equivalent of having to call a locksmith because the key for the kinky handcuffs vanished.

 

A lot of people use it for outfits and such. The CTS wardrobe requires rlv to work.

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2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

A lot of people use it for outfits and such. The CTS wardrobe requires rlv to work.

   .. I had written just that, and then changed tab and forgot about it until the tab pinged. Sighs.

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11 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Look people kept pressuring me and pressing me for my personal information when I said I'd like to contact my friend first.

Get over it, please.  I mean seriously.  

 

What part of IT IS NOT PERSONAL INFORMATION do you not get?

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2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Oh, the "Bandwidth: 500kbit/s" part? That's the "Maximum bandwidth" in "Setup" preferences, which I understand to only throttle some UDP communications which should be pretty limited at this point. It's been years since I've noticed that setting having any effect, but maybe I just don't know how to look for it. (The network itself is pretty okay for DSL—50 Mbps down, 10 up—good enough I haven't yet upgraded to fiber-to-the-premises.)

You may want to try bumping that up to 1000 for DSL. 

Quote

Recommendation

Based on our experience, we strongly recommend the following maximum settings for bandwidth - unless the calculations above suggest lower values:

  • Any type of wireless connection, including home wireless: 500
  • Hardwired DSL: 1000
  • Hardwired cable or better: 1500.

https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_speedtest

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4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

some may know Kitty Barnett, another—maybe the other—developer on Catznip.

Thank you for that, Qie. I'll give Catznip a miss then :)

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3 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

SLURLs are NOT PERSONAL INFROMATION. EVERYONE USES THEM.

And could also have been edited out of the post.

@FairreLilette

The easiest thing to do now would be to just go back the the last pre-EEP FS viewer that was used.  As your concern is about your builds not looking the same to everyone using the new viewers,  they will also look different to everyone who has ALM on.  You mentioned the LL viewer looks fine with ALM off so results will still not be the same for everyone viewing your builds.  ALM would seem to make a bigger difference than EEP as people will see your builds in different environmental settings.  IMO

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12 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Well, that's interesting but aside from this I know nothing of it.  At least with Paypal and SL all those years ago, there were other people taking the risk not just me by myself. I've never heard anyone speak of being on Catznip, ever.

I work on Catznip with @Kitty Barnett (who is also on the Firestorm team). Our goal is to take the Linden viewer and add features with a more thoughtful take. We don't import code from other viewers (aside from bug fixes), every other viewer (Including Linden) has lots of code from Catznip.

We're non-competitive. It's not important which viewer you use to enjoy SL, just so long as you log in and enjoy SL.

We're on a much slower release cycle than other TPV's mainly as there are just two of us and RL / mental health / minecraft routinely conspire against our best intentions.

The most well known single feature developed in Catznip and then exported to everyone else is RLVa, if you're a developer finding out about new RLVa features only as Firestorm adds them, you're 6 to 8 months behind and are missing the opportunity to directly influence development !

RLVa is a small part of Catznip which broadly speaking has feature parity with Firestorm and a LOT of additional functionality around inventory and shopping (because we shop a lot) all of which has been developed from scratch with a fresh perspective. We just don't add 3 bazillion checkboxes for everything or partake in the lookat hiding drama :P

*Note ... if you think Catznip should do _____  better, the only reason it doesn't is because we don't know about / participate in _____, feel free to get us into _____. 

Our EEP release has been badly delayed, mainly because we ended up sinking a tremendous amount of time into mitigating the 20% performance impact it came with. The bulk of our users are on lower end hardware and we do a lot of testing on such hardware ourselves.

The current public beta has EEP support however is a little behind our internal working copy.

We plan to release soon™ with both an EEP and none EEP version which should hopefully give people a year to source upgrades (and if our testing stands up, should be the fastest viewers we have ever produced by a substantial margin).

Edited by Coffee Pancake
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5 hours ago, ValKalAstra said:

Perhaps the equivalent of having to call a locksmith because the key for the kinky handcuffs vanished.

/me hurriedly puts her phone down.

What? WHAT? Don't look at me like that!

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5 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

/me hurriedly puts her phone down.

What? WHAT? Don't look at me like that!

Hint: Why is your bra the last place you look? If you don't wear one then, your lingerie drawer. Whatever comes closest. ;)

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In my opinion OP is doing what many people use to do. At first they automatically consider personal viewer issues as general viewer issues/bugs.  Perhaps later they find out, it's their equipment or their settings which causes the problem. But the residents which read only the thread title or the first post will keep in memory, wow, the new Firestorm must be bad. Most likely they spread the news at other places and blame their next issues also on it.

Edited by Doc Carling
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4 hours ago, Doc Carling said:

In my opinion OP is doing what many people use to do. She automatically considers personal viewer issues as general viewer issues/bugs. If Firestorm would be really so buggy, the forum would be flooded with similar reports and complaints. Is that so? Well, read the 8 pages of replies.

Uh, what does the 2nd post on the first page say?  Do you even read any of the posts at all?

What did FairreLilette say here on Page One of this thread as well as for several posts that there is an apparent bug with AMD and she tried Lyssa's fix for the AMD bug which worked for Lyssa but not for her.

Fairre's 2nd post on Page One:

"It's in the hardware area of the GRAPHICS.  I believe this is something to do with the fact I have AMD and not Intel or something like that and I have to change something but I don't know what." 

Edited by JanuarySwan
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1 hour ago, JanuarySwan said:

Uh, what does the 2nd post on the first page say?  Do you even read any of the posts at all?

What did FairreLilette say here on Page One of this thread as well as for several posts that there is an apparent bug with AMD and she tried Lyssa's fix for the AMD bug which worked for Lyssa but not for her.

Fairre's 2nd post on Page One:

"It's in the hardware area of the GRAPHICS.  I believe this is something to do with the fact I have AMD and not Intel or something like that and I have to change something but I don't know what." 

And it was explained to her  by Chaser what that meant. It had nothing to do with her actual issue which turned out to be her computer using the integrated chip instead of her graphics card. 

You do know who Chaser is, right? Or more importantly, who he works with/for?

On 4/6/2021 at 2:04 PM, Chaser Zaks said:

That is texture memory limit. The memory limit is based off the maximum that your graphics card can hold. You can still see textures that are up to 1024x1024, just it is limited to how much can be in the video memory at once.

As for group chats, that is a Linden Lab issue and is something that is out of our control.

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5 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

Uh, what does the 2nd post on the first page say?  Do you even read any of the posts at all?

What did FairreLilette say here on Page One of this thread as well as for several posts that there is an apparent bug with AMD and she tried Lyssa's fix for the AMD bug which worked for Lyssa but not for her.

Fairre's 2nd post on Page One:

"It's in the hardware area of the GRAPHICS.  I believe this is something to do with the fact I have AMD and not Intel or something like that and I have to change something but I don't know what." 

My replay is referring to the title of the thread: "New FS Viewer...6.4.13...Looks Like BLEEEEEEEP!" But ok, I edited it to be more clear. Apart from that OP complains in several replies about Firestorm not only because of graphic issues.

Edited by Doc Carling
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6 hours ago, Doc Carling said:

My replay is referring to the title of the thread: "New FS Viewer...6.4.13...Looks Like BLEEEEEEEP!" But ok, I edited it to be more clear. Apart from that OP complains in several replies about Firestorm not only because of graphic issues.

I don't know what you are going on about Doc.  

It was suggested that I go to Catznip, a viewer I've never heard of and thought and said 'oh that will be copybot central'.  You do know there are people here on the forum who are quite talented but who would never put their mesh into SL because of the copybotting issues?  And, who has been blamed for copybotting on this forum, not be me, but time and time again with no denial was Firestorm. Why these are open source is beyond my understanding and why LL would want open source of their viewers is beyond my understanding.  I would think a company would hire people to just fix their viewer and keep it closed.  But, it's really neither here nor there.  I know nothing of how copybotting works nor who is responsible for it all...I just didn't want to walk into something where my stuff would or could be stolen. 

However, speaking of LL viewer, I don't have the same problem on LL viewer right now other than materials where both are said to have a broken specular, that's why I said in this thread I think something is corrupted with FS.  Because, from my understanding, FS is a copy of LL viewer, so why the difference between the two for me now?

And, yes, there has been a problem with AMD.  It was spoken about in a thread back in December when I downloaded the first EEP viewer which I also said in this thread regarding the first EEP viewer and those with AMD.  I never denied there was stuff on my end here.  

And, I'm done as this is a dead end here.  I will most likely go back to LL viewer as it's working fine.  Why, I don't know.  I also said maybe I need a clean install of FS, although I've been told with Windows 10 we don't need clean install anymore.  

It's just too many questions here to keep up with and people making weird accusations that are absolutely untrue that I don't want to be a part of this thread anymore.  It is getting nowhere. 

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On 4/11/2021 at 6:41 AM, Rowan Amore said:

The easiest thing to do now would be to just go back the the last pre-EEP FS viewer that was used.  As your concern is about your builds not looking the same to everyone using the new viewers,  they will also look different to everyone who has ALM on.  You mentioned the LL viewer looks fine with ALM off so results will still not be the same for everyone viewing your builds.  ALM would seem to make a bigger difference than EEP as people will see your builds in different environmental settings.  IMO

 I haven't been keeping up with this thread but I have read through a lot and wanted to add a couple of things if they haven't been said in the 168 comments (some which seem very silly but anyway). 

 

Linden Lab released the code that made copybot viewers possible. This long, long ago like maybe a dozen years.  Any viewer on the approved 3rd party viewer list is SUPPOSED to by copybot free; known copybot viewers have been banned and removed from this list in the past.  

 

Firestorm USES LL code and attempts to keep "parity" with the Linden viewer while adding TONS more options for people.  Linden Lab sometimes includes 3rd party code back into the Linden viewer. 

 

AMD graphics cards have ALWAYS (at least a dozen years anyway) had problems with SL -- the main reason so many of us now use Nvidia.  This is NOT NEW NEWS. 

 

Ebbe (maybe three years ago) clearly stated that The Lab KNEW some creators were going to need to redo some of their builds because of the change in lighting.  Whether the creators CHOOSE to do that or not  is up to them.   BUT, and this is the important part.  Since materials were introduced (before mesh was so 11 years maybe? ) people have NOT seen items in the same way.  When materials are added to the texture workflow the look of the item can change dramatically depending on the Windlight(R) setting. This is why some creators include materials versions and non-materials versions in their no mod products (often hair). And of course the graphics level settings in the viewer (any veiwer) make a big change.  Again, NOT A NEW problem, just a version of an old one.  

 

So none of these issues people are arguing about are new and they are apparently not going away. 

 

I am HOPING that FS decides and implements a CHOICE between EEP and Windlight.  Parity has already gone out that open window.   This has really been the most talked about change since the viewer went from 1.23 mode to V2. Back then, FS DID give people a choice of which way they wanted the viewer to look.  So my fingers are crossed and hopeful. And if that doesn't happen we'll all just have to live with EEP or leave -- or change to a viewer that IS giving a choice but may be missing a lot of features we don't want to live without :D .   

 

Choices, choices.  

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26 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Wow, well thanks for that.

I said that before I knew I knew it was yours.  I knew nothing of Catznip until this thread.

So, don't take it personally.  I didn't know where Catznip viewer came from?

What I've read on the forums about copybotting and viewers while yes I know it's rumor, it did strike me as odd that it's never been denied in these threads and I always wondered why that was.  It did strike me as odd. 

I've asked for a thread closure as I wish to no longer partake in this thread.  I have things I have to do plus it remains a mystery right now why LL viewer is working but FS is not.  I just don't have time to solve the mystery of it all at this time.  

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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

time again with no denial was Firestorm

I guess I missed the thread that called firestorm a copybot viewer.  Anyone care to point me to it?

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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

And, who has been blamed for copybotting on this forum, not be me, but time and time again with no denial was Firestorm. 

I'm not a fan of Firestorm but I've never seen it accused of being a copybot viewer. Where I think you may be making a mistake is that Firestorm has been accused many times of having skullduggery in its history, including by me, and you've assumed that the accusations were about copybotting. They weren't.

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20 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

 

 

Linden Lab released the code that made copybot viewers possible. This long, long ago like maybe a dozen years.  Any viewer on the approved 3rd party viewer list is SUPPOSED to by copybot free; known copybot viewers have been banned and removed from this list in the past.  

 

I think from memory they didn't release the code technically at first.
In 2006 Libsecondlife reverse engineered it and Copybot was born as an evolution after that.

15 years ago - time flies!

 

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