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New FS Viewer...6.4.13...Looks Like BLEEEEEEEP!


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On 4/6/2021 at 3:23 PM, FairreLilette said:

But, now, my linden balance is missing several thousands lindens.  Scary, scary bugs.  

Just left click where your L$ balance should be if it shows "???" or the wrong balance and that will force an update to the right amount.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, MarissaOrloff said:

Just left click where your L$ balance should be if it shows "???" or the wrong balance and that will force an update to the right amount.

Oh, it returned after several re-logs yesterday but I will try to remember that shortcut.

I'm still fiddling with the viewer quite a lot today and my avi looks like this (below) with the bump and the shiny on... (it's not good - and my new necklace looks terrible!)  I don't know what I'm going to do here.    

Snapshot_904 (2).jpg

Edited by FairreLilette
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2 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Oh, it returned after several re-logs yesterday but I will try to remember that shortcut.

I'm still fiddling with the viewer quite a lot today and my avi looks like this (below) with the bump and the shiny on... (it's not good - and my new necklace looks terrible!)  I don't know what I'm going to do here.    

Snapshot_904 (2).jpg

That looks like a lighting issue... Try different EEP settings. I like Nam optimal skin and prim.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, MarissaOrloff said:

What kind of hardware do you have? Go to Help > About Firestorm > Click "Copy to Clipboard" and paste the results below please.

It's not my machine as I decided to go into the LL viewer which is much, much better - see first photo of just what it looks like at midday in the LL viewer whereas when in FS, midday is terrible and as bad as what I'm getting with materials on.  Second photo in the LL viewer is with materials on.

 

15 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

That looks like a lighting issue... Try different EEP settings. I like Nam optimal skin and prim.

I know about lighting.  I usually use Annan Adored Optimal Skin, No Shadow.  

First, I wanted to check viewers and LL viewer is way better.  But, it doesn't have all the controls I'm used to for building nor a way to use environments as all lightings would need to be imported in here or I don't know where they are yet or perhaps there is a newer LL viewer with some light settings.  I just don't know yet but this is enough for today.  It's been a long day.  

But, I still say almost no items use specular.  Now I found some tins I have and a lamp that have specular but those both have metal parts.  I am perfectly serious when I say the vast majority of items in SL don't use specular because it's for metal, i.e. shiny things but now it's being used for HD skins and lip glosses.  And, I'd like to be able to use bump but as it is now if I turn off shiny, bump is shut off too.  First photo at Midday looks great in LL viewer but terrible in FS viewer where I have a marching ant effect in FS on everything.  But, I need to rest for a bit and I don't know where lightings are in LL viewer as I said.  My draw distance was up because some items were not holding form so I upped the DD just for testing something.   THESE ARE BOTH PHOTOS FROM LL VIEWER. I'm showing here how Midday looks fine here on LL viewer now.  

Screenshot (205).png

Screenshot (206).png

Edited by FairreLilette
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47 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

nor a way to use environments as all lightings would need to be imported in here or I don't know where they are yet

If  you're using a recent LL viewer (from anytime since EEP was first introduced), in your Inventory, look under "Library" -> "Environments" and then in either the "Days" or "Skies" folder.  I believe that all the FS windlights that were converted to EEP by the FS Team are there in the Library -> Environments folders.  

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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

It's not my machine as I decided to go into the LL viewer which is much, much better - see first photo of just what it looks like at midday in the LL viewer whereas when in FS, midday is terrible and as bad as what I'm getting with materials on.  Second photo in the LL viewer is with materials on.

The LL viewer will give the exact same output for hardware... Help > About Second Life > Copy to Clipboard

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You will generally get better performance from the LL viewer than from FS because FS has extras in it that the LL viewer does not have - all those nice to have things that you will miss.

Rather than continue bashing FS maybe you can turn it around and try to constructively make it better by running comparisons with exactly the same settings for sky, draw distance etc and then if there is noticeably significant differences raise (or add to) a JIRA on the FS site?

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8 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

It's not my machine as I decided to go into the LL viewer which is much, much better - see first photo of just what it looks like at midday in the LL viewer whereas when in FS, midday is terrible and as bad as what I'm getting with materials on.  Second photo in the LL viewer is with materials on.

 

I know about lighting.  I usually use Annan Adored Optimal Skin, No Shadow.  

First, I wanted to check viewers and LL viewer is way better.  But, it doesn't have all the controls I'm used to for building nor a way to use environments as all lightings would need to be imported in here or I don't know where they are yet or perhaps there is a newer LL viewer with some light settings.  I just don't know yet but this is enough for today.  It's been a long day.  

But, I still say almost no items use specular.  Now I found some tins I have and a lamp that have specular but those both have metal parts.  I am perfectly serious when I say the vast majority of items in SL don't use specular because it's for metal, i.e. shiny things but now it's being used for HD skins and lip glosses.  And, I'd like to be able to use bump but as it is now if I turn off shiny, bump is shut off too.  First photo at Midday looks great in LL viewer but terrible in FS viewer where I have a marching ant effect in FS on everything.  But, I need to rest for a bit and I don't know where lightings are in LL viewer as I said.  My draw distance was up because some items were not holding form so I upped the DD just for testing something.  

What do you mean by "turn off bump and shiny?" Do you mean turning off the Bump mapping and shiny box in the graphics preferences? If your issue is with the "shiny" and vast majority of items dont use it, why is that an issue? 

As i have previously stated, anything in SL that is supposed to be metallic will most likely have a specular map on it. That includes the buttons and zippers on mesh clothing. 

I would be willing to bet that its a driver issue rather than a viewer one.  Can you take a gyazo gif of the "ants marching" effect? 

Another thought is that it could be your LOD Factor setting. 2-3 is usually best. Anything more and it means the mesh is poorly made. 

95bc48eb223836f648e5ee1442abac9d.png

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Jax Leeder said:

You will generally get better performance from the LL viewer than from FS because FS has extras in it that the LL viewer does not have - all those nice to have things that you will miss.

Rather than continue bashing FS maybe you can turn it around and try to constructively make it better by running comparisons with exactly the same settings for sky, draw distance etc and then if there is noticeably significant differences raise (or add to) a JIRA on the FS site?

I've used FS on and off for about ten years now.  I don't bash but there is a definite problem and it's worse in FS.   On Midday everything has a marching ant effect on FS but on LL viewer at Midday I don't have a marching ant effect.  Neither look good with materials at present but LL viewer looks a bit better.  Plus, with EEP it's not so easy to do a comparative lighting test until I find where the lightings are.  

I might not get back to the thread right away because I need to do some rl things and then later take pictures and talk to FS team inworld.

Edited by FairreLilette
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17 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Always keep your graphic card drivers up to date. 

Just to interject ... 

Nvidia - update constantly. Use geforce experience and the studio drivers if you'd rather do this as infrequently as possible (same drivers, slower release cycle).

AMD - If everything works, make a note of your driver version before you update, there have been times lately when an update came with some weirdness/blue. Update but maybe give it a couple of weeks after a new version comes out to see if other people have issues.

Intel - Can't always rely on Windows update to get you the best or latest. Broadly speaking, find the latest that works, If SL runs - back away slowly. Sometimes updates aren't. Easy enough to revert if things do break.

ATI - (old!!) Once you have a driver that works, never change it - N E V E R - Tinkering increases the chances for the ATI installer to screw up your entire system and leave windows unable boot. If SL updates and looks weird, this is your life now.

 

 

Edited by Coffee Pancake
derp derp derpitty derp
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12 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I've used FS on and off for about ten years now.  I don't bash but there is a definite problem and it's worse in FS.   On Midday everything has a marching ant effect on FS but on LL viewer at Midday I don't have a marching ant effect.  Neither look good with materials at present but LL viewer looks a bit better.  Plus, with EEP it's not so easy to do a comparative lighting test until I find where the lightings are.  

I might not get back to the thread right away because I need to do some rl things and then later take pictures and talk to FS team inworld.

With eep, even the old windlight look different.  Try using another one from the library folder.  Midday has always been rather harsh IMO

 

Edited by Rowan Amore
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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

AMD - If everything works, make a note of your driver version before you update, there have been times lately when an update came with some weirdness/blue. Update but maybe give it a couple of weeks after a new version comes out to see if other people have issues.

I have a phone number and I'm going to call.  But, I can see with the LL viewer it looks great at Midday, crystal clear and no marching ants.  So not sure why marching ants on FS...?  I think it's coming from the shiny.  Shiny should be separate from bump because I'd like to use bump and have need for it but I don't use shiny.  I thought I remembered someone saying back in a thread in December when EEP first came out that "they made everything shiny"...and she did not like it.  

 

42 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

With eep, even the old windlight look different.  Try using another one from the library folder.  Midday has always been rather harsh IMO

 

Lot of us who build count on Midday to build.  It is the best for building, plus there was a slider one could use to adjust it slightly.   I have adjusted tons of lightings in FS already by moving the clouds slider, clicking around the sun for different positions, etc, and nothing makes it look better.  I do not, however, want AMD talking me into a bunch of drivers for a lot of money because that is not going to happen.

I just went into FS viewer and took a pic at Midday with materials off and it looks like bleeeeeeeeeeeeeep!  It really does.  Look at my necklace and planter for two examples. ...they look just awful and they never looked like that with the BOM viewer I was using.  However, on LL viewer at Midday my stuff looks fine.  Looks like a new viewer may be in store for me because I am not spending tons of money on driver updates.

Snapshot_910 (2).jpg

Edited by FairreLilette
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Hasnt EEP been in the last 3 FS viewers? Not sure why it would be causing an issue with this release. 

54 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I've used FS on and off for about ten years now.  I don't bash but there is a definite problem and it's worse in FS.   On Midday everything has a marching ant effect on FS but on LL viewer at Midday I don't have a marching ant effect.  Neither look good with materials at present but LL viewer looks a bit better.  Plus, with EEP it's not so easy to do a comparative lighting test until I find where the lightings are.  

I might not get back to the thread right away because I need to do some rl things and then later take pictures and talk to FS team inworld.

Bottom right corner of the viewer is a phoenix logo. Click that and you can change the EEP settings quickly. The last 3 drop downs are for EEP. 

95bc48eb223836f648e5ee1442abac9d.png

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1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Nvidia - update constantly. Use geforce now and the studio drivers if you'd rather do this as infrequently as possible (same drivers, slower release cycle).

GeForce Experience is better imo.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/geforce-experience/

But for those who insist on the cloud https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce-now/

 

ETA: I also have never used midday for building. Nam's Optimal Skin and Prim is the best one for building. That advice comes from 17 years of building in SL.

Edited by Selene Gregoire
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Just for comparison sake ....

The following snapshot was taken at Mid Day using the current FS EEP Viewer:

Midday_001.thumb.jpg.9a62280602fe53603d864e4f115e589a.jpg

Using the following settings:

FSGPPREFSCropped.png.fb6f549fa909abdd93b467f6aa821f6b.png

FSGPPREFSCropped2.png.2e8e63645cb1901f35a1d97f08a7c1b1.png

FSGPPREFSCropped3.png.57fb9b639ae6ad649ac8fa27b4f24ba9.png

With Depth f Field turned off. Normally i have it running with the following settings:

FSGPPREFSCropped4.png.25974727740b31ac315b00d6e1e3af5b.png

As far as good EEP settings for snapshots and where to even find the current EEP presets ... The Quick Prefs floater has not changed much and should list every EEP Setting you have in your inventory, including in the Library section. As far as messing with the actual settings, that is in the same place as it was before, just under a new name and with a different floater (World - Environment - Personal Lighting). Outside of the Quick Prefs box, EEP settings are designed to be applied right from your inventory via secondary click context menu options (Apply Only to Myself and Apply to Parcel).

ETA: The "comparison" shot with my usual EEP and DoF enabled:

PreffedEEP_001.thumb.jpg.764e20e5bec20b5f7cf42ed992b0d325.jpg

Edited by Solar Legion
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18 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Hasnt EEP been in the last 3 FS viewers? Not sure why it would be causing an issue with this release. 

Bottom right corner of the viewer is a phoenix logo. Click that and you can change the EEP settings quickly. The last 3 drop downs are for EEP. 

95bc48eb223836f648e5ee1442abac9d.png

That button exists there for you because you're using FS's Vintage Skin. On every other Skin you have to put it there manually.

Edited by Solar Legion
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28 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Lot of us who build count on Midday to build.  It is the best for building, plus there was a slider one could use to adjust it slightly.   I have adjusted tons of lightings in FS already by moving the clouds slider, clicking around the sun for different positions, etc, and nothing makes it look better.  I do not, however, want AMD talking me into a bunch of drivers for a lot of money because that is not going to happen.

I just went into FS viewer and took a pic at Midday with materials off and it looks like bleeeeeeeeeeeeeep!  It really does.  Look at my necklace and planter for two examples. ...they look just awful and they never looked like that with the BOM viewer I was using.  However, on LL viewer at Midday my stuff looks fine.  Looks like a new viewer may be in store for me because I am not spending tons of money on driver updates.

Regardless of what you USED to use, you may need to adjust for the new viewer.  I did 2 pics with different EEP settings, each with materials on.  You just need to play around to see which works best for you.  The first is Annan Adored Realistic Ambient

https://gyazo.com/28b9f08ac63056b3c7154c01e842b87f

The second is with Nam's Optimal Skin and Prim

https://gyazo.com/0b91eab2fe601d6498be44ebf125fc8a

The first is what I assume you mean by marching ants.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by Rowan Amore
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4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Regardless of what you USED to use, you may need to adjust for the new viewer.  I did 2 pics with different EEP settings, each with materials on.  You just need to play around to see which works best for you.  The first is Annan Adored Realistic Ambient

https://gyazo.com/28b9f08ac63056b3c7154c01e842b87f

The second is with Nam's Optimal Skin and Prim

https://gyazo.com/0b91eab2fe601d6498be44ebf125fc8a

The first is what I assume you mean by marching ants.  

But, but.. thats the specular map doing what its supposed to do... Making parts of the necklace reflect light... Thats not a glitch.. if that is indeed what she means by ants marching that is.. 

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15 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

That button exists there for you because you're using FS's Vintage Skin. On every other Skin you have to put it there manually.

My wife has the same little phoenix box, albeit a different color, in the bottom right corner.. Its just the quick prefs box. 

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12 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Regardless of what you USED to use, you may need to adjust for the new viewer.  I did 2 pics with different EEP settings, each with materials on.  You just need to play around to see which works best for you.  The first is Annan Adored Realistic Ambient

https://gyazo.com/28b9f08ac63056b3c7154c01e842b87f

The second is with Nam's Optimal Skin and Prim

https://gyazo.com/0b91eab2fe601d6498be44ebf125fc8a

The first is what I assume you mean by marching ants.  

 

 

 

 

That's more like "flickering" I have that too but that's not what I mean by marching ants as I first stated it's more like static marching ants.

See, screenshot 1 - look at the legs and you will see lines.  Look at screenshot 2 of me logging into the LL viewer with old picture on Midday and no static marching ant lines.  It looks great actually - 2nd screenshot is old BOM viewer at Midday, now gone sadly.  It was a really great viewer.

Screenshot (208).png

Screenshot (210).png

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Just now, Drake1 Nightfire said:

My wife has the same little phoenix box, albeit a different color, in the bottom right corner.. Its just the quick prefs box. 

That's nice. It still does not exist in all of the Skins by default. Vintage and the Beta Latency Skin have a section dedicated to the old school Media/Voice controls and that button. The Firestorm labeled one does not and going by the preview screenshots ... none of the others do either.

In all other Skins, you have to explicitly put the button to access Quick Prefs on your toolbar. That is how it has been for quite some time.

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2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

That's more like "flickering" I have that too but that's not what I mean by marching ants as I first stated it's more like static marching ants.

See, screenshot 1 - look at the legs and you will see lines.  Look at screenshot 2 of me logging into the LL viewer with old picture on Midday and no static marching ant lines.  It looks great actually - 2nd screenshot is old BOM viewer at Midday, now gone sadly.  It was a really great viewer.

Screenshot (208).png

Screenshot (210).png

What I'm seeing there looks like the same sort of jagged lines caused by some forms of image/texture compression.

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