New FS Viewer...6.4.13...Looks Like BLEEEEEEEP!

[Gabriele Graves]

@FairreLilette On the Nvidia side, you don't need anything better than the Nvidia 3060.  You don't need the TI version either.

[FairreLilette]

28 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

@FairreLilette On the Nvidia side, you don't need anything better than the Nvidia 3060.  You don't need the TI version either.

Oh, I didn't want those but it's causing price gouging for even the lower end ones since the others are scarce.  Doing a quick search the 3060 seems to be going from 400 to 1200 hundred dollars for the TI one which is very erratic pricing to say the least with prices all over the map but I did not check to see what was in stock.  What's going on, in general, is price gouging.  

https://www.google.com/search?q=nvidia+3060&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS784US784&sxsrf=ALeKk01kRsaQl5hLvO1-qEg_xGKBWHjEYw:1618368414113&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwih_8CT3PzvAhX4JzQIHRmdBmMQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1120&bih=626

 

[Gabriele Graves]

I doubt you can do anything about that except wait it out or maybe look at secondhand/used cards perhaps.

[Solar Legion]

3 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I doubt you can do anything about that except wait it out or maybe look at secondhand/used cards perhaps.

And hope they're gently used as opposed to run hard by cryptominers .....

[Gabriele Graves]

Just now, Solar Legion said:

And hope they're gently used as opposed to run hard by cryptominers .....

Yes, though I doubt the mid-range or lower-end cards are very interesting to miners.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

59 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

There are rumors I've heard and also said in this thread, so I looked it up.  I wasn't sure it was quite true or not but it says Ebay and stranger things have happened on Ebay.  Then, I stumble across a tariff?  Supposedly because of lockdown some parents didn't care what they had to pay to get their kids something that really keeps them occupied, so a lot of cards have been said to have been going up and up and for a lot of different reasons, bitcoin is just one of them.  My SL friend who has helped me with so many technical things in SL and works graphic design in rl, told me some cards to look at just a few months before COVID hit and before the cloud, as before the cloud I had a lot of lag, and the cards I needed were in the $100 dollar range.  I doubt I'll find anything like that now and I am kicking myself about it.  But, no...I've never heard of newegg.  I'd really like to spend around $250 ballpark or near there.  I know you are showing me a high end one from newegg but I'm just stating the ballpark range I'd be shooting for is about $250 max.

As of December 31, 2020, GPUs and motherboards are now included in tariffs the Trump administration placed on Chinese imports. ... That means prices are rising by as much as 25 percent for high-end GPUs—including Nvidia's new RTX 3090, 3080, 3070, and 3060 Ti, and AMD's RX 6800 and RX 6800 XT.Jan 13, 2021

Nvidia is a US company... 

57 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

The ones I see are all out of stock.

Thats scary, the one i posted was in stock when i posted it..

[FairreLilette]

31 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I doubt you can do anything about that except wait it out or maybe look at secondhand/used cards perhaps.

Yeah, wait it out a bit.  I'm thinking this should pass somewhere within 3-6 months as we all head more towards being vaccinated and less lockdowns, or as many of us as possible because I just looked at one card which was pricey and the warranty was sucky.  Our lockdown is said to be over June 15th but things could change though and us not open on June 15th. 

Geesh, with that cryptomining and the price gouging, it probably happened because people needed something to do during lockdown and were willing to pay anything.  

Edited April 14, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

I do not know where you are getting this info.. The RTX 3080 is available on newegg for $699. https://www.newegg.com/msi-geforce-rtx-3080-rtx-3080-ventus-3x-10g/p/N82E16814137600?cm_mmc=vendor-nvidia&u1=s1618363382089xkk2a52439

No crazy mark ups. Heck, they are all on Newegg for the listed retail prices. 

Where did you get this list?

ETA I wonder if a Nvidia card would work in your PC.. Less issues. 

No. They aren't on newegg for retail prices. They haven't been for months.

See that red logo on the side "NEWWGG SHUFFLE ONLY" - You can't buy the card, but you can enter a draw to win the opportunity to buy the card. Only winning doesn't actually guarantee anything, can still win and still not be able to buy anything.

All the other product they have that just up for sale the old fashioned way are shipped from China with massively inflated prices. Like a Gigabyte 2060 for over $800, or an MSI one for $919.99 !

[Rowan Amore]

Darn!!!  Was gonna get this one but it's sold out too.  😂😆

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3090-24gb-gddr6x-pci-express-4-0-graphics-card-titanium-and-black/6429434.p?skuId=6429434

[Coffee Pancake]

15 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Darn!!!  Was gonna get this one but it's sold out too.  😂😆

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3090-24gb-gddr6x-pci-express-4-0-graphics-card-titanium-and-black/6429434.p?skuId=6429434

JFC .. They have a 1030 for $129 .. only about $120 more than the card is worth.

[Gabriele Graves]

Nvidia has put out a driver update that cripples cryptocurrency mining, however on their first go they fluffed it and ethereum miners were able to continue mining but Nvidia's ultimate goal is to make it infeasible to use gaming cards for cryptocurrency and sell miners special purpose cards that are no good for games.  So all this may pass, or the miners may bypass it somehow and the madness will continue.  It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Gabriele Graves

[ValKalAstra]

Gosh, the graphics card situation... it's something, alright. It's the perfect storm of factors that have led to a frankly insane situation on the market. In essence:

1. The previous generation of cards was lackluster. Expensive for little improvement, leading to people skipping it.
2. Nvidia's new RTX cards are a gamechanger in terms of visuals and technology for games that support it (there are a lot of comparisons on Youtube, if you search for raytracing vs no raytracing (to be more precise, raytracing is the game changer - it's just the RTX cards support it).
3. The pandemic and lockdowns have led to some people having more disposable funds (no expenditure for partying/travel and such) and more time at home.
4. Right when the cards were released, a new crypto craze fired off.
5. Scalpers have flooded the market with Bots and are buying cards faster than anyone can naturally get to them.
6. Production shortages brought on by the pandemic have further troubled the distribution.

As a result, the RTX cards are bought up the second they hit the market. People have grown so desperate to acquire one of these that they are genuinely watching live-streams of cardstocks, hoping to be quick enough to get one. The side effect is that it has caused a ripple effect and in turn made most semi-new cards jump in cost. There are waiting lists and some people have taken to buy complete systems, rip out the graphics card, sell it on e-bay and put in a cheaper one to basically get a computer on a steep discount.

12 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

So all this may pass, or the miners may bypass it somehow and the madness will continue.  It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

Aye. My prediction: Like previous mining crazes, this will pop like a bubble and come crashing down. The market will be flooded with a lot of half-broken second hand cards and it will all normalize. That is until the next time some billionaire guy kicks off the next craze.

Edited April 14, 2021 by ValKalAstra

[Gabriele Graves]

Let's not also forget the world-wide general chip shortage for all types of silicon:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2271918-theres-a-global-shortage-of-computer-chips-whats-causing-it/

[Coffee Pancake]

never rains but it pours

[FairreLilette]

8 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

never rains but it pours

My Mom used to say similar "when it rains it pours".  This always meant she knew someone was going through difficulties.

In the previous old version of the FS viewer I downloaded, the alpha chains and necklaces are flickering all over the place like the fourth of July, so "something" is just not connecting with my old AMD and FS any longer.  I'm on the LL viewer again right now trying to get back into the swing of things here but then I notice, it's kind of dark.

I'm going to try your viewer some time today, Coffee.  Thanks for building it.  You may be a life saver to some as I need to rest my eyes after a week of tweaking to no avail.  It's unfortunate timing for EEP with the card situation.  I have a laptop but it's for music and headphones.  Working on a laptop for me is misery as they are not ergonomically designed.  I need to adjust keyboard and monitor to me.  

[Charlotte Bartlett]

15 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I typically use one 1024 texture for most furniture  and bake a 2048 at 400.  For houses I do the same bake style but one texture for the interior of a small house for example, one or two for the exterior etc. 

 

I have to admit that now that I am "retired" I am not AS thrifty with my textures (still with my triangles :D) since "I" like PRET-TY too - LOL.   But still there is a big difference between reasonable and the over the top use of both main textures and material textures by some of our most popular H and G creators (clothing too but I don't know near as much about that).    So for example I made myself a little casita this last month.   Only one normal map -- the tile floor.   40 land impact with LONG LODs.   

 

When you consider that the numbers equate (or are much lower) than many SMALL pieces of decore (I have seen some with half a million triangles and hundreds of thousands of TMem)  I am calling this good.  LOL.     Also if I wanted more shine there is always the teeny tiny blank texture that works for adjustable all over shine. In most cases that does well enough for MY needs.  

 

 

I plan to spend the summer there

 

We all work differently and there are of course different markets.  Some items made by very popular creators I just bypass.  Way too many triangles (mostly unnecessary) and way too may textures.  I try to gives thumbs up to the  folks that are doing a great job too -- like the couch at ACCESS I just mentioned on the "Furnishings" thread :D.    BUT if folks keep buying this oh so heavy mesh, creators will keep making it-- when they could be making the same mesh  MUCH leaner with just a bit more effort.  Time will tell how it works out. 

 

 

That house is beautiful Chic!!   Gorgeous work.

I am the same (and god when I look at my older items I cry - I still cry daily hah as I struggle to figure things and it's 15 years of this stuff now (well 9 odd for mesh).   I should have mentioned that user case using 1024 over one item, good point!

There is a creator (no actually I won't use that word, a brand who buys their mesh, repackages and then sells it on SL) who's stuff is so complex and texture heavy it makes me really sad.  The comments are always "high quality, beautiful".  Perhaps, yes for a static image, but not for a virtual world in reality with SL's infrastructure.    

I don't always get it right myself but I have to give Kudos to posters like you and many others here, who have helps many of us hobbyists understand more and improve on their output and products - so thank you!!



 

[Chic Aeon]

2 hours ago, Charlotte Bartlett said:

There is a creator (no actually I won't use that word, a brand who buys their mesh, repackages and then sells it on SL) who's stuff is so complex and texture heavy it makes me really sad.  The comments are always "high quality, beautiful".  Perhaps, yes for a static image, but not for a virtual world in reality with SL's infrastructure.  

Yes and then those consumers wonder why they can't move in their house :D.  The folks over on the "Furnishings" thread are getting smarter -- at least quite a few of them.  Unfortunately most people don't understand the consequences. 

 

Even sadder are the creators (some of my favorites) who have moved over into the heavy mesh and texture group -- presumably because they sell more that way.  If the people BUYING "Render" mesh would just retopo before uploading and use fewer textures it would be great.  Happily -- now and then WITHIN "the brands" you can find some lower poly items :D. So I still "shop" -- it just often turns into  and "oh damn" moment when I inspect the object. 

 

I am wondering how those brands are going to handle the EEP changes (there I did a segue back to the OP).   Hopefully -- in the next few months -- the devs will work out the rest of the major issues still inherent in EEP.   I was applaud when I heard that they expected the creators to redo all (or many) of their products as needed.  So much for backwards compatibility.   I WILL say that I am happy with the improvements to the LOOK of EEP -- at my place anyway. I can definitely live with that. 

 

I am still planning on installing the OS Firestorm when the FS BOM version gets retired.  I can use the Linden viewer if I make another building.  And I can work some in OS again (where I still get paid LOL).  

 

In SANSAR the complete scene was baked and there were no lighting changes aavailable so THERE normal and specular maps worked really well with no odd looks depending on how the light was hitting (this for Windlight too of course - not just EEP).  But we don't have that here. 

[Charlotte Bartlett]

36 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Yes and then those consumers wonder why they can't move in their house :D.  The folks over on the "Furnishings" thread are getting smarter -- at least quite a few of them.  Unfortunately most people don't understand the consequences. 

 

Even sadder are the creators (some of my favorites) who have moved over into the heavy mesh and texture group -- presumably because they sell more that way.  If the people BUYING "Render" mesh would just retopo before uploading and use fewer textures it would be great.  Happily -- now and then WITHIN "the brands" you can find some lower poly items :D. So I still "shop" -- it just often turns into  and "oh damn" moment when I inspect the object. 

 

I am wondering how those brands are going to handle the EEP changes (there I did a segue back to the OP).   Hopefully -- in the next few months -- the devs will work out the rest of the major issues still inherent in EEP.   I was applaud when I heard that they expected the creators to redo all (or many) of their products as needed.  So much for backwards compatibility.   I WILL say that I am happy with the improvements to the LOOK of EEP -- at my place anyway. I can definitely live with that. 

 

I am still planning on installing the OS Firestorm when the FS BOM version gets retired.  I can use the Linden viewer if I make another building.  And I can work some in OS again (where I still get paid LOL).  

 

In SANSAR the complete scene was baked and there were no lighting changes aavailable so THERE normal and specular maps worked really well with no odd looks depending on how the light was hitting (this for Windlight too of course - not just EEP).  But we don't have that here. 

I look at my old stuff, even things now 2-3 months old and always want to bin it as small little improvements.  But I will sadly not be redoing any of the 140 odd houses, unless it's a complete rebuild and new release for that product unrelated to EEP.  I am a hobbyist I don't have time and would prefer to just make something new.  I'll just adjust newer ones to the newer "state" as I go.   I still have some older houses with "sun and shadows" baked in that people still buy (who are on lower end machines and can't used advanced lighting).  

EEP I did read most of the thread, I would love to try Black Dragon as a viewer but am on a Mac.  The images I see created with are always amazing (so much so I might have to fire up parallels on my Mac and run windows just to have a go with it!).

[Adumelial Rothstein]

I am getting a crash continually since the Firestorm Update in March. After Firestorm crashes SL "Bug Splat" points to Firestorm every time. I send in the error reports to them with the files and fill in the what I was trying to do, with no fix!? Does anyone know why or what fix I can do.

 

Yes, clean install. IT here very miffed with SL all around because of this.

Premium member too

[Chic Aeon]

6 hours ago, Adumelial Rothstein said:

I am getting a crash continually since the Firestorm Update in March. After Firestorm crashes SL "Bug Splat" points to Firestorm every time. I send in the error reports to them with the files and fill in the what I was trying to do, with no fix!? Does anyone know why or what fix I can do.

 

Yes, clean install. IT here very miffed with SL all around because of this.

Premium member too

Too many variables and a good chance even YOU won't be able to figure it out (been there). The FS team might well be fixing the problem if it is widespread but it won't be an instant fix as that isn't how things work. So the best you can do is go back to the version that WAS working for you and then try the next release and see if your problem goes away. OR use the Linden viewer for awhile and see if it truly IS FS and not another problem. 

 

[FairreLilette]

19 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I was applaud when I heard that they expected the creators to redo all (or many) of their products as needed.  

Yeah that would be terrible.  There is too much too loose here when many love to use SL for still life work more so even than as an interactive world.  

Anyhow, one thing I do really, really like about the LL viewer is all the info you get upon starting the viewer.  I wanted to let you know Chic that last week your 52 Weeks of Color was featured on the opening page of the LL viewer and I thought that was great.  There is a lot of information on 'that' opening page about things to do and things to get involved in.  

But, anyhow, yesterday I had rl to do so I haven't downloaded Catznip viewer yet but started the LL viewer this morning and it has an update and I updated it.  The LL viewer has apparently updated some of these bug fixes.  Okay, as far as the alpha channel and jewelry and other things alpha it's better but not as good as it once was in my opinion as it kind of flickers but the alpha stuff (jewelry etc) doesn't look as bad as it did for photos now.  The screenshot below is on the bug-fix LL viewer and the alpha stuff (chains etc) are rezzing now.  I also took the screenshot with EEP environment abled - it's an EEP environment I bought and it supposed to be slightly green tinged.   

But, I'm going to be downloading Catznip today and see if I want to just skip EEP for now or not.  

[Jenna Huntsman]

24 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Yeah that would be terrible.  There is too much too loose here when many love to use SL for still life work more so even than as an interactive world.  

Anyhow, one thing I do really, really like about the LL viewer is all the info you get upon starting the viewer.  I wanted to let you know Chic that last week your 52 Weeks of Color was featured on the opening page of the LL viewer and I thought that was great.  There is a lot of information on 'that' opening page about things to do and things to get involved in.  

But, anyhow, yesterday I had rl to do so I haven't downloaded Catznip viewer yet but started the LL viewer this morning and it has an update and I updated it.  The LL viewer has apparently updated some of these bug fixes.  Okay, as far as the alpha channel and jewelry and other things alpha it's better but not as good as it once was in my opinion as it kind of flickers but the alpha stuff (jewelry etc) doesn't look as bad as it did for photos now.  The screenshot below is on the bug-fix LL viewer and the alpha stuff (chains etc) are rezzing now.  I also took the screenshot with EEP environment abled - it's an EEP environment I bought and it supposed to be slightly green tinged.   

But, I'm going to be downloading Catznip today and see if I want to just skip EEP for now or not.  

If you'd like, you can IM me in-world. I've got some other EEP presets you could try out before you make your decision. (One is a realistic day cycle, one is just fixed noon)

[Chic Aeon]

29 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I wanted to let you know Chic that last week your 52 Weeks of Color was featured on the opening page of the LL viewer and I thought that was great.

Thanks. Didn't know that :D.   FS used to have a screen similar with "to do" and "to go to" types of things.  I don't remember when that stopped.   

And yes, things DO seem better than a couple of months ago and those fixes will make it into FS on the next release I suspect :D.  

 

PS. Seeing the post above I guess it would be good to mention that I have a set of "Places" (new ones not the original ones that are now in most 3rd party viewers) EEPS that I made in 2020.  They are free to pick up here:  http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Moon Beach/211/107/2510

Just in a big box on the ground (this was on the wall of the art gallery but the art gallery moved and the SLURL had been published LOL, so a little tacky. Sorry about that!

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Chic Aeon
adding info

[Claireschen Hesten]

9 hours ago, Adumelial Rothstein said:

I am getting a crash continually since the Firestorm Update in March. After Firestorm crashes SL "Bug Splat" points to Firestorm every time. I send in the error reports to them with the files and fill in the what I was trying to do, with no fix!? Does anyone know why or what fix I can do.

 

Yes, clean install. IT here very miffed with SL all around because of this.

Premium member too

You might want join the inworld group and ask this the folks there will be able to direct you to the right help

The only real issue i've noticed since upgrading to EEP is my FPS has tanked to less than half what it was on the last pre-EEP viewer

[FairreLilette]

1 minute ago, Jenna Huntsman said:

If you'd like, you can IM me in-world. I've got some other EEP presets you could try out before you make your decision. (One is a realistic day cycle, one is just fixed noon)

Thanks, sure.  Okay, Jenna it's just about breakfast for me now and then rl store after.  I will attempt to contact you after I get back from the store and it's a small shopping I have to do so I won't gone too long.