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New FS Viewer...6.4.13...Looks Like BLEEEEEEEP!


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7 minutes ago, Jenna Huntsman said:

Fullbright and shine won't ever really work as far as I know. Best you could do is probably something like an emissive mask, which allows you to set which parts of a texture are to 'glow', and how much.

I see, but I brought it up because of speculation in this thread of a possible new Vulcan viewer down the road, but a new Vulcan viewer is not happening now it's just in the talking about it as possible stage.  

 

8 minutes ago, Jenna Huntsman said:

Protip: Always use TGA style textures for material mapping. It's easier to wrap your head around how the alpha interacts with the rest of the texture (as in photoshop it acts as it's own channel, unlike PNGs).

Okay, thanks again.  Most of my items from others though, and the stuff is really gorgeous, does not have speculars in them.  I found two speculars after looking in loads of my own home decor which is very varied, and one specular was used because it's a tin and the other specular was used because it's a lamp - both those are considered metal and shiny but I don't see much shine coming off there personally.  But, everything else, no specs in there.  So, I did check and others can too as most furnishing are modify.  Anyhow, all these no specular items I cannot in any way complain about the look I am getting.  They look terrific.  But, as we may go to EEP only and it can't be avoided, building may change on this but I even doubt then that my items would no longer look good from all the top creators in home decor I've bought stuff from in EEP.  EEP on my AMD is just very murky.  Whether a happy medium is achieved, I don't know yet but cards are scarce, I can't just get one at the drop of a hat.  I need time to look into it.  But, I'm fearing my AMD is just not going to go into the future here.  I had no complaints with it pre EEP though and have enjoyed a tremendous amount of visuals here in SL.  I bump my pixels way up in my camera area and that makes photos look like a high end GPU when it isn't.  

 

16 minutes ago, Jenna Huntsman said:

Anyone who tells you that no-mod protects copybotting doesn't know what they're saying. 

 There was a thread recently about 'why aren't more items mod' and everyone said that it's a myth regarding copybotting and modify items.  Thanks for the full explanation above.    

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I work on Catznip with @Kitty Barnett (who is also on the Firestorm team). Our goal is to take the Linden viewer and add features with a more thoughtful take. We don't import code from other viewers (

/me hurriedly puts her phone down. What? WHAT? Don't look at me like that!

That one did come up in the search and - from what I can see - is not exactly related to Microsoft in any real way. it is a developer attempting to cash in on the Microsoft name while offering what am

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40 minutes ago, KjartanEno said:

This is the way materials should be used. I'd add that these 32 bit textures can often be much lower resolution than the diffuse map they are used with on a UV mapped object, and they will look just as good without taking too much video memory. Any creator making textures should test their creations under a wide variety of lighting conditions using ALM before calling them 'done,' not just A-12pm (Midday) or whatever their favorite preset might be.

Another great thing about doing that is you can tile your material maps. Materials layers tile separate of the main diffuse layer, so say if you've got a steel object, you could use a 256 normal map to add tile the normal / spec maps to create an incredible amount of detail which you absolutely cannot get with a 1024 non-tiled materials texture. Because it tiles separate of the diffuse layer, adding details to that (e.g. a valve on a pipe) will be preserved correctly.

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2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I see, but I brought it up because of speculation in this thread of a possible new Vulcan viewer down the road, but a new Vulcan viewer is not happening now it's just in the talking about it as possible stage.  

Okay, thanks again.  Most of my items from others though, and the stuff is really gorgeous, does not have speculars in them.  I found two speculars after looking in loads of my own home decor which is very varied, and one specular was used because it's a tin and the other specular was used because it's a lamp - both those are considered metal and shiny but I don't see much shine coming off there personally.  But, everything else, no specs in there.  So, I did check and others can too as most furnishing are modify.  Anyhow, all these no specular items I cannot in any way complain about the look I am getting.  They look terrific.  But, as we may go to EEP only and it can't be avoided, building may change on this but I even doubt then that my items would no longer look good from all the top creators in home decor I've bought stuff from in EEP.  EEP on my AMD is just very murky.  Whether a happy medium is achieved, I don't know yet but cards are scarce, I can't just get one at the drop of a hat.  I need time to look into it.  But, I'm fearing my AMD is just not going to go into the future here.  I had no complaints with it pre EEP though and have enjoyed a tremendous amount of visuals here in SL.  I bump my pixels way up in my camera area and that makes photos look like a high end GPU when it isn't.  

I wouldn't worry too much about a viewer which doesn't exist yet. I also have faith that LL won't be out to break all of SL's existing content.

It's down to the creator how they want to make an item. They might have found that not including a specular map on an item makes it quicker / cheaper to make an item which preserves the same amount of 'apparent' detail, but at a slight sacrifice of lighting accuracy in ALM scenes, which, unfortunately not many people care about in SL. Which is why you can see a lot of posts blasting EEP as being 'unneeded'. (It was needed, but the timing I agree was odd).

EEP *generally* shouldn't be affected (colour-wise) by your GPU. That's more the realm of your monitor (or your GPU driver settings, but I digress). EEP does require some time to tweak though. I've been working on a realistic day-night cycle with colour temperature changes for about the past week. Getting it right takes time. WL presets look like garbage under EEP (this is probably an area of improvement, because they all look 'murky' as you say).

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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

Normal maps are not baked in.  Normal or bump maps work fabulous.  Specular maps are only needed for shiny things and there aren't that many shiny things in life.  What texture artists do here is something that was invented by the French a long time ago called trompe l'oeil.  Trompe l'oeil is tricking the eye into seeing  3D on a 2D surface because as you know all textures are really 2D. [...]

But virtual worlds are not 2D even though the viewing screen is. The point of view moves with every twitch of the camera, so baked-in shine looks totally fake in an interactive 3D world, just as a tromp l'oeil illusion is defeated as the vantage point moves relative to the painted surface.

Perhaps our main disconnect is that I don't much engage with static, standalone objects in SL; rather, my interest is drawn to assembled objects that move, interact, and change. Part of that is probably a side-effect of being a scripter, for whom the whole point of SL is to make the world interactive and dynamic. So for me, a baked-in "shine" highlight is just a flaw: as soon as the object moves, or the cam moves, or an avatar walks by, it fails to respond and becomes a mere blotch on the surface.

This is also why I'm so excited by EEP: unlike WIndlight, EEP can be used as a scripted feature that dynamically changes the whole environment on a per-user basis. For example, I have a houseboat parcel that (with Experience permissions) gives each visitor a deep visceral sense of clouds gathering and darkening and a storm rolling in from across the bay, changing the sky and the lighting on everything in the scene viewed from anywhere in the parcel. This makes baked-in shadows and painted-on shine highlights look especially fake for not responding to the changing environment, same as when they fail to respond to object motion or a shift of vantage point.

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I am commenting in general about something I saw on the "clip" version of a comment as it rolled by but I can't find it here on this thread any longer so perhaps it was changed (and quickly at that :D).  

 

I know we will never solve the Materials - no materials argument; it has been going on for a decade and we each have our point of view.  BUT I haven't seen any mention here (and maybe I missed it) that oftentimes designers add 1024 normal and specular maps) to their objects. Sometimes SEVERAL and sometimes on SMALL objects.  Each normal map -- each specular map is more texture that needs to be downloaded as well as another server call.   

All this use (I was going to say misuse but that is a personal perspective again) of so many large textures, texturing parts of garments that will never be seen, adding large normal and specular maps etc is one of the main reasons we are having that lag issue.   My lag days are over for awhile with my brand new and very powerful computer.  But I haven't forgotten about all the folks that are having new and increased lag issues.

 

Some of that appears to be inherent in EEP (or at least the FS EEP as that is the complaint I hear most often, possibly because most folks are ON FS :D).    Other is definitely CREATOR GENERATED and USER GENERATED (we all have choices to make here) content. 

 

So not all creators that have chosen NOT to use materials were trying to save time.  I have a very useful third party map generator that I PAID FOR (LOL) that makes lovely normal and specular maps with fine detailing in a few clicks.  I used it in Sansar on almost everything. Sansar is not SL however.  

I am also quite happy with EEP and my sim lighting these days. It has improved greatly and I have no plans to change it.  Things under EEP definitely  look different with ALM on and off however.  

 

I did some more tests just now and this is the same hookah using the current LL viewer.  

 

This is with ALM on under Linden EEP. 

363030527_eepwithALM.thumb.jpg.6a9099c02e2a761127ac3c30e9a9f861.jpg

 

And with ALM OFF under EEP on the Linden viewer.

 

523730869_eepALMOFF.thumb.jpg.d41b4eba36094f881696a106ec267585.jpg

I can't say that I can get too excited about the look with ALM off.  But honestly I have always use ALM  except when my computer was on its last breaths.  

Would be nice if The Lab could get things looking closer to each other.  Still I am very happy with how it looks under EEP with ALM :D.    

 

 

 

Edited by Chic Aeon
one spelling one punctuation -- not too bad
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1 hour ago, Chic Aeon said:

I am commenting in general about something I saw on the "clip" version of a comment as it rolled by but I can't find it here on this thread any longer so perhaps it was changed (and quickly at that :D).  

 

I know we will never solve the Materials - no materials argument; it has been going on for a decade and we each have our point of view.  BUT I haven't seen any mention here (and maybe I missed it) that oftentimes designers add 1024 normal and specular maps) to their objects. Sometimes SEVERAL and sometimes on SMALL objects.  Each normal map -- each specular map is more texture that needs to be downloaded as well as another server call.   

All this use (I was going to say misuse but that is a personal perspective again) of so many large textures, texturing parts of garments that will never be seen, adding large normal and specular maps etc is one of the main reasons we are having that lag issue.   My lag days are over for awhile with my brand new and very powerful computer.  But I haven't forgotten about all the folks that are having new and increased lag issues.

 

Some of that appears to be inherent in EEP (or at least the FS EEP as that is the complaint I hear most often, possibly because most folks are ON FS :D).    Other is definitely CREATOR GENERATED and USER GENERATED (we all have choices to make here) content. 

 

So not all creators that have chosen NOT to use materials were trying to save time.  I have a very useful third party map generator that I PAID FOR (LOL) that makes lovely normal and specular maps with fine detailing in a few clicks.  I used it in Sansar on almost everything. Sansar is not SL however.  

I am also quite happy with EEP and my sim lighting these days. It has improved greatly and I have no plans to change it.  Things under EEP definitely  look different with ALM on and off however.  

 

I did some more tests just now and this is the same hookah using the current LL viewer.  

 

This is with ALM on under Linden EEP. 

363030527_eepwithALM.thumb.jpg.6a9099c02e2a761127ac3c30e9a9f861.jpg

 

And with ALM OFF under EEP on the Linden viewer.

 

523730869_eepALMOFF.thumb.jpg.d41b4eba36094f881696a106ec267585.jpg

I can't say that I can get too excited about the look with ALM off.  But honestly I have always use ALM  except when my computer was on its last breaths.  

Would be nice if The Lab could get things looking closer to each other.  Still I am very happy with how it looks under EEP with ALM :D.    

 

 

 

The lag issue is a bit more complex than '1024 is bad', as a single 1024 is vastly better than 4x 512 textures.

The problem mostly comes from having 1024 diffuse textures on a set of earrings or something like that. It just isn't needed. Materials textures actually shouldn't matter as much, as the rendering pipeline can be smart and discard them from video memory if they aren't 'relevant' (i.e. object itself is at an LOD), also they should be able to have better compression as materials textures use a very limited colour space (limited range RGB for normals, greyscale for spec. SL uses JPEG2000 for textures, which is a *compressed* format). Diffuse textures can't be discarded however.

HUDs are another example. So many HUDs use several large textures when it just isn't needed. Use a damn texture atlas. I've been working on building an AO hud, and that uses just a single 1024 texture for the entire thing, thanks to the use of a texture atlas.

With that hookah example, it kinda goes back to what @Qie Niangao was saying, is that having that highlight baked into the texture itself breaks under non-ideal lighting conditions (e.g. sunset, wherein the highlight *has* to be a different colour, coming from a different direction). Although I do agree that for users that don't use ALM it's a good compromise. 

Edited by Jenna Huntsman
fixing fast typing errors, added info
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7 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

I am commenting in general about something I saw on the "clip" version of a comment as it rolled by but I can't find it here on this thread any longer so perhaps it was changed (and quickly at that :D).  

 

I know we will never solve the Materials - no materials argument; it has been going on for a decade and we each have our point of view.  BUT I haven't seen any mention here (and maybe I missed it) that oftentimes designers add 1024 normal and specular maps) to their objects. Sometimes SEVERAL and sometimes on SMALL objects.  Each normal map -- each specular map is more texture that needs to be downloaded as well as another server call.   

All this use (I was going to say misuse but that is a personal perspective again) of so many large textures, texturing parts of garments that will never be seen, adding large normal and specular maps etc is one of the main reasons we are having that lag issue.   My lag days are over for awhile with my brand new and very powerful computer.  But I haven't forgotten about all the folks that are having new and increased lag issues.

 

Some of that appears to be inherent in EEP (or at least the FS EEP as that is the complaint I hear most often, possibly because most folks are ON FS :D).    Other is definitely CREATOR GENERATED and USER GENERATED (we all have choices to make here) content. 

 

So not all creators that have chosen NOT to use materials were trying to save time.  I have a very useful third party map generator that I PAID FOR (LOL) that makes lovely normal and specular maps with fine detailing in a few clicks.  I used it in Sansar on almost everything. Sansar is not SL however.  

I am also quite happy with EEP and my sim lighting these days. It has improved greatly and I have no plans to change it.  Things under EEP definitely  look different with ALM on and off however.  

 

I did some more tests just now and this is the same hookah using the current LL viewer.  

 

This is with ALM on under Linden EEP. 

363030527_eepwithALM.thumb.jpg.6a9099c02e2a761127ac3c30e9a9f861.jpg

 

And with ALM OFF under EEP on the Linden viewer.

 

523730869_eepALMOFF.thumb.jpg.d41b4eba36094f881696a106ec267585.jpg

I can't say that I can get too excited about the look with ALM off.  But honestly I have always use ALM  except when my computer was on its last breaths.  

Would be nice if The Lab could get things looking closer to each other.  Still I am very happy with how it looks under EEP with ALM :D.    

 

 

 

I've actually been surprisingly pleased with the EEP FS viewer.  Shocking!

I guess basically, no one can build with everyone in mind.  Each and every person runs their choice of viewer and graphics settings.  I definitely like the top picture much better.

Also, on another subject, most people I know have a working knowledge of how lighting effects the look of your avatar.

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51 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

But virtual worlds are not 2D even though the viewing screen is. The point of view moves with every twitch of the camera, so baked-in shine looks totally fake in an interactive 3D world, just as a tromp l'oeil illusion is defeated as the vantage point moves relative to the painted surface.

Well, while I agree to some degree, I mostly disagree because trompe l'oeil is still employed with 2D textures by the greatest textures artists that are here in SL every day; just look at Nutmeg and their textures for one.  Nutmeg has been said to be the best textures in SL and they are fantastic that is for sure and do employ trompe l'oeil techniques as do other greats in SL who are very well loved for their texture art.  

 It is difficult to add shine in Photoshop though as I said, but some people are just darn good at it here in SL, so we have subjective experiences.  I still think incremental shine, if possible, on a new viewer for the future would be a good idea, if that really is a plan going forward.  

However, overall I still like your post and found it enlightening.  

24 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

that oftentimes designers add 1024 normal and specular maps) to their objects. Sometimes SEVERAL and sometimes on SMALL objects.  Each normal map -- each specular map is more texture that needs to be downloaded as well as another server call.   

Yes, this can be a problem.  

And add, your pipe is gorgeous btw, I wanted to say, and the glass looks translucent in the first photo.  

EDIT:  Adding a photo.  I took the below photo and used a dawn windlight and I don't think the objects look "off" too much.  Maybe you might see differently here though.  In the below photo, I did NOT bump up by pixels in SL camera, this photo is with low pixels set as I was doing other kinds of photos and did not have time to bump up my pixels.  If you click on the photo you can see it better.

Snapshot_831.jpg

Edited by FairreLilette
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While some of the items presented in the screenshots I added into this thread earlier may not have much in the way of Materials usage, some most certainly do and very few items do not make use of both Bump/Normal mapping and Specular/Shine maps.

As a point blank example that nearly everyone should be familiar with: Human mesh bodies make use of the Specular/Shine maps to achieve that oiled/sweaty look you sometimes see in screenshots. To some this looks "plasticy". It can be an immense shock to not see it at all for some time and then suddenly see it when updating/upgrading a Viewer and it decides having ALM in general on is a good fit for your hardware. if that happens then guess what? You're finally seeing yourself as everyone else saw you!

And yes, a lot more items than one would think, make use of both types of maps. That is simply a fact. You may not see them or they may not stand out much to you but they are there.

I have an area at my Den that I use to relax and have left open to public access through the on Parcel teleport system. One of the features there however is also good for seeing how lighting is affected by the two different maps and the settings they have. More than once, an item that did not appear to have much Specularity to it in normal lighting conditions revealed itself there to actually have such a map set and configured in such a way as to give more weight to artificial light sources.

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2 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I am commenting in general about something I saw on the "clip" version of a comment as it rolled by but I can't find it here on this thread any longer so perhaps it was changed (and quickly at that :D).  

 

I know we will never solve the Materials - no materials argument; it has been going on for a decade and we each have our point of view.  BUT I haven't seen any mention here (and maybe I missed it) that oftentimes designers add 1024 normal and specular maps) to their objects. Sometimes SEVERAL and sometimes on SMALL objects.  Each normal map -- each specular map is more texture that needs to be downloaded as well as another server call.   

All this use (I was going to say misuse but that is a personal perspective again) of so many large textures, texturing parts of garments that will never be seen, adding large normal and specular maps etc is one of the main reasons we are having that lag issue.   My lag days are over for awhile with my brand new and very powerful computer.  But I haven't forgotten about all the folks that are having new and increased lag issues.

 

Some of that appears to be inherent in EEP (or at least the FS EEP as that is the complaint I hear most often, possibly because most folks are ON FS :D).    Other is definitely CREATOR GENERATED and USER GENERATED (we all have choices to make here) content. 

 

So not all creators that have chosen NOT to use materials were trying to save time.  I have a very useful third party map generator that I PAID FOR (LOL) that makes lovely normal and specular maps with fine detailing in a few clicks.  I used it in Sansar on almost everything. Sansar is not SL however.  

I am also quite happy with EEP and my sim lighting these days. It has improved greatly and I have no plans to change it.  Things under EEP definitely  look different with ALM on and off however.  

 

I did some more tests just now and this is the same hookah using the current LL viewer.  

 

This is with ALM on under Linden EEP. 

363030527_eepwithALM.thumb.jpg.6a9099c02e2a761127ac3c30e9a9f861.jpg

 

And with ALM OFF under EEP on the Linden viewer.

 

523730869_eepALMOFF.thumb.jpg.d41b4eba36094f881696a106ec267585.jpg

I can't say that I can get too excited about the look with ALM off.  But honestly I have always use ALM  except when my computer was on its last breaths.  

Would be nice if The Lab could get things looking closer to each other.  Still I am very happy with how it looks under EEP with ALM :D.    

 

 

 

I always love it when Chic has to bring out the Hookah!

(it's a great example).

For me: 1024 textures should only be used for large things like a floor spanning a house (I use them there but only if a large floor).
Most creators can simply use 512x512 and below and have super crisp materials with some post editing after you bake out the maps esp if using Substance Painter and they have a good environment and material pipeline.
Also things like glass windows 64x64 textures are just perfect for blurry glass and that includes any specular maps etc or shine as we call it in SL terms.


On the point made about no mod and copybot.   

Clothing creators generally (the many I know) have a culture of non mod due to not wanting customers to recolor and to leverage fatback income (whether you agree/disagree).
H&G creators generally (should) have a mod culture as frankly people need to size things and play with animations or even if we mesh at a modular format break up builds and reuse bits.   e.g. I try these days (mostly) to make all windows a single mesh that you can then interchange between builds or use in other builds you buy from other creators   I don't always achieve full modular just because of some designs and my fingers run out of steam, but something I have been enjoying recently is seeing customers share their "mods" some are amazing and it doesn't matter if I like the outcome, as long as the person who purchased the house loves it, that makes my job complete and successful.

So any creator whom I have seen say the copybot thing is normally an inexperienced creator, or somebody who isn't linked into their community and peers.   So just has not yet had the misinformation corrected.  Any time you see a creator say the copybot/mod thing, keep educating them.  Mod wins always for just keeping people engaged within SL.   I have seen a huge uptick in our customers alone who are now modding and creating from things, and that's great it means they are growing an attachment to SL and being creative.

As a side, copybot doesn't really impact sales/brands, most creators I know in the top and mid tiers wouldn't even give it a passing thought these days. You get the odd rampage on Marketplace when somebody does it but LL generally get the DMCA responded and the stuff off quickly and creators quickly share across the community.     

 

Edited by Charlotte Bartlett
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4 hours ago, Jenna Huntsman said:

WL presets look like garbage under EEP (this is probably an area of improvement, because they all look 'murky' as you say).

I see.  

I really did like the old windlights and especially the slider in quick prefs which gave so much uniqueness to the windlights.  Plus, I can do a bazillion things in PS too that look like EEP anyways for 2D stuff.  What I saw of EEP in the LL viewer was pretty and the clouds move but with my AMD I would not rave about it.  

I kind of thought EEP might have been better as an alternate for more advanced users rather than enforced as it's cutting out those with AMD, especially an older AMD like me that has no updates and is oddly made also due to old technology.

 I don't like laptaps because I need an ergonomic set-up with a large screen monitor where I need it for my vision and an old-fashioned full keyboard due to carpal tunnel syndrome.  Yes, I know full kb's can be used as a peripheral with a laptop but if I need to move the laptop screen closer towards me so I can see it could move the peripheral keyboard right off the table.  Desktops are easier to set up ergonomically and have a way better cooling unit and don't cost nearly as much as a laptop.  I will need time to look for a card due to the scarcity for various reasons such as COVID and bitcoins. 

 

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6 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

  I will need time to look for a card due to the scarcity for various reasons such as COVID and bitcoins. 

 

Amazon has tons of them... Not sure what bitcoin has to do with graphics cards..

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33 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I see.  

I really did like the old windlights and especially the slider in quick prefs which gave so much uniqueness to the windlights.  Plus, I can do a bazillion things in PS too that look like EEP anyways for 2D stuff.  What I saw of EEP in the LL viewer was pretty and the clouds move but with my AMD I would not rave about it.  

I kind of thought EEP might have been better as an alternate for more advanced users rather than enforced as it's cutting out those with AMD, especially an older AMD like me that has no updates and is oddly made also due to old technology.

Your GPU vendor should be largely irrelevant regarding EEP. It's mainly about the age of the hardware.

EEP is definitely something that's geared more towards technical users, as it requires an understanding of colour theory and time to tinker / experience in CG to get things looking good. It's a good system, but it still needs improvement - for example, in the environment editor 'Distance multiplier' would better be renamed to 'Turbidity' as that is the function that it serves.

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38 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Amazon has tons of them... Not sure what bitcoin has to do with graphics cards..

I think she is alluding to the shortage of Nvidia 3070/3080 cards due to being snapped up by cryptocurrency miners.  There are still plenty of other cards available though.

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5 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I think she is alluding to the shortage of Nvidia 3070/3080 cards due to being snapped up by cryptocurrency miners.  There are still plenty of other cards available though.

Yeah and it looks like a scam.  But, COVID is causing shortages too.  I will look around asap though.  I've also heard bitcoin right now is a sell but who knows.  I'm not involved in bitcoin.

Retail Price and Street Price

Item Retail price Street price (Dec 2020)
Item Retail price Street price (Dec 2020)
Nvidia RTX 3080 $699 $1,227
Nvidia RTX 3070 $499 $819
Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti $399 $675
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9 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I think she is alluding to the shortage of Nvidia 3070/3080 cards due to being snapped up by cryptocurrency miners.  There are still plenty of other cards available though.

You dont need anywhere near that powerful a card though.. I have a 1650 that i paid $150 for..

8 minutes ago, Evah Baxton said:

"Crypto-currency enthusiasts have contributed to a shortage of graphics cards by snapping up supplies to use for non-gaming purposes."

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56114508

I.. did not know that.. I dont follow bitcoin as i am never going to be able to afford it. Nor do i really want to. 

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3 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

You dont need anywhere near that powerful a card though.. I have a 1650 that i paid $150 for..

No, I don't need it...I haven't really looked yet.  I was just wondering how much of a mark-up there might be when one is just reading about how graphics cards are going through the roof and then COVID shortages.  I didn't want to pay more than the 200 range myself.  

GPU, PS5, XBOX STREET PRICES: MARCH 2021

Item Retail price Street price (Dec 2020) Street price (Mar 2021) Current value
Nvidia RTX 3090 $1,499 $2,076 $2,985 1.99x
Nvidia RTX 3080 $699 $1,227 $2,160 3.09x
Nvidia RTX 3070 $499 $819 $1,239 2.48x
Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti $399 $675 $1,226 3.07x
Nvidia RTX 3060 $329 N/A $828 2.5x
AMD RX 6900 XT $999 Did not check $1,841 1.84x
AMD RX 6800 XT $649 $1,232 $1,555 2.4x
AMD RX 6800 $579 $841 $1,331 2.3x
AMD RX 6700 XT $479 N/A $1,169 2.4x
PS5 (disc) $499 $1,024 $833 1.66x
PS5 (digital) $399 $990 $754 1.88x
Xbox Series X $499 $835 $805 1.61x
Xbox Series S $299 $471 $432 1.45x

RX 6700 XT is based on five, not seven days of eBay sales since it’s brand-new.

 

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23 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

I.. did not know that.. I dont follow bitcoin as i am never going to be able to afford it. Nor do i really want to. 

I don't follow bitcoin either but this has been all other the news that passes my eyes for a while now for some reason.

Edited by Gabriele Graves
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3 hours ago, Charlotte Bartlett said:

I always love it when Chic has to bring out the Hookah!

(it's a great example).

For me: 1024 textures should only be used for large things like a floor spanning a house (I use them there but only if a large floor).

I typically use one 1024 texture for most furniture  and bake a 2048 at 400.  For houses I do the same bake style but one texture for the interior of a small house for example, one or two for the exterior etc. 

 

I have to admit that now that I am "retired" I am not AS thrifty with my textures (still with my triangles :D) since "I" like PRET-TY too - LOL.   But still there is a big difference between reasonable and the over the top use of both main textures and material textures by some of our most popular H and G creators (clothing too but I don't know near as much about that).    So for example I made myself a little casita this last month.   Only one normal map -- the tile floor.   40 land impact with LONG LODs.   

 

When you consider that the numbers equate (or are much lower) than many SMALL pieces of decore (I have seen some with half a million triangles and hundreds of thousands of TMem)  I am calling this good.  LOL.     Also if I wanted more shine there is always the teeny tiny blank texture that works for adjustable all over shine. In most cases that does well enough for MY needs.  

 

image.thumb.png.994fcb3ee13b4a53d9a52bf14004fcda.png

 

I plan to spend the summer there :D

 

We all work differently and there are of course different markets.  Some items made by very popular creators I just bypass.  Way too many triangles (mostly unnecessary) and way too may textures.  I try to gives thumbs up to the  folks that are doing a great job too -- like the couch at ACCESS I just mentioned on the "Furnishings" thread :D.    BUT if folks keep buying this oh so heavy mesh, creators will keep making it-- when they could be making the same mesh  MUCH leaner with just a bit more effort.  Time will tell how it works out. 

 

casita.thumb.jpg.eacca6506abf633d13d977e1f75220d0.jpg

 

Edited by Chic Aeon
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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

No, I don't need it...I haven't really looked yet.  I was just wondering how much of a mark-up there might be when one is just reading about how graphics cards are going through the roof and then COVID shortages.  I didn't want to pay more than the 200 range myself.  

GPU, PS5, XBOX STREET PRICES: MARCH 2021

Item Retail price Street price (Dec 2020) Street price (Mar 2021) Current value
Nvidia RTX 3090 $1,499 $2,076 $2,985 1.99x
Nvidia RTX 3080 $699 $1,227 $2,160 3.09x
Nvidia RTX 3070 $499 $819 $1,239 2.48x
Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti $399 $675 $1,226 3.07x
Nvidia RTX 3060 $329 N/A $828 2.5x
AMD RX 6900 XT $999 Did not check $1,841 1.84x
AMD RX 6800 XT $649 $1,232 $1,555 2.4x
AMD RX 6800 $579 $841 $1,331 2.3x
AMD RX 6700 XT $479 N/A $1,169 2.4x
PS5 (disc) $499 $1,024 $833 1.66x
PS5 (digital) $399 $990 $754 1.88x
Xbox Series X $499 $835 $805 1.61x
Xbox Series S $299 $471 $432 1.45x

RX 6700 XT is based on five, not seven days of eBay sales since it’s brand-new.

 

I do not know where you are getting this info.. The RTX 3080 is available on newegg for $699. https://www.newegg.com/msi-geforce-rtx-3080-rtx-3080-ventus-3x-10g/p/N82E16814137600?cm_mmc=vendor-nvidia&u1=s1618363382089xkk2a52439

No crazy mark ups. Heck, they are all on Newegg for the listed retail prices. 

Where did you get this list?

ETA I wonder if a Nvidia card would work in your PC.. Less issues. 

Edited by Drake1 Nightfire
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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

I do not know where you are getting this info.. The RTX 3080 is available on newegg for $699. https://www.newegg.com/msi-geforce-rtx-3080-rtx-3080-ventus-3x-10g/p/N82E16814137600?cm_mmc=vendor-nvidia&u1=s1618363382089xkk2a52439

No crazy mark ups. Heck, they are all on Newegg for the listed retail prices. 

Where did you get this list?

ETA I wonder if a Nvidia card would work in your PC.. Less issues. 

There are rumors I've heard and also said in this thread, so I looked it up.  I wasn't sure it was quite true or not but it says Ebay and stranger things have happened on Ebay.  Then, I stumble across a tariff?  Supposedly because of lockdown some parents didn't care what they had to pay to get their kids something that really keeps them occupied, so a lot of cards have been said to have been going up and up and for a lot of different reasons, bitcoin is just one of them.  My SL friend who has helped me with so many technical things in SL and works graphic design in rl, told me some cards to look at just a few months before COVID hit and before the cloud, as before the cloud I had a lot of lag, and the cards I needed were in the $100 dollar range.  I doubt I'll find anything like that now and I am kicking myself about it.  But, no...I've never heard of newegg.  I'd really like to spend around $250 ballpark or near there.  I know you are showing me a high end one from newegg but I'm just stating the ballpark range I'd be shooting for is about $250 max.

As of December 31, 2020, GPUs and motherboards are now included in tariffs the Trump administration placed on Chinese imports. ... That means prices are rising by as much as 25 percent for high-end GPUs—including Nvidia's new RTX 3090, 3080, 3070, and 3060 Ti, and AMD's RX 6800 and RX 6800 XT.Jan 13, 2021

Edited by FairreLilette
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46 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

I do not know where you are getting this info.. The RTX 3080 is available on newegg for $699. https://www.newegg.com/msi-geforce-rtx-3080-rtx-3080-ventus-3x-10g/p/N82E16814137600?cm_mmc=vendor-nvidia&u1=s1618363382089xkk2a52439

No crazy mark ups. Heck, they are all on Newegg for the listed retail prices. 

Where did you get this list?

ETA I wonder if a Nvidia card would work in your PC.. Less issues. 

The ones I see are all out of stock.

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