Cinema 4D, SL Scale and Bones

[VictoriaRaven]

Hello,

 

I use Cinema 4D to do my work, alas I tried to import both the classic Skeleton and the Bento one. Both are tinier as a grain of rice, how can I enlarge them to work better? By what factor? cm? m? I am working with diameters of 0.0025mm and that is not very optimal.

The Bento Skeleton has an issue in some Formats that the Spine and the arms are hanging 90 degrees backwards. Nothing happens when I put them back, although the body responds to feet and head movement. Are these bones commonly bugged?

 

Thank you for your help.

Edited April 5, 2021 by VictoriaRaven
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[VictoriaRaven]

Update: I just worked on the small skeleton .DAE File. A bracelet which showed up perfect in the upload preview but was a blob ingame afterwards. In addition, the .DAE has the perfect size in Marvelous Designer. The .FBX is broken and small to barely visible in both programs. 

[OptimoMaximo]

6 hours ago, VictoriaRaven said:

Update: I just worked on the small skeleton .DAE File. A bracelet which showed up perfect in the upload preview but was a blob ingame afterwards. In addition, the .DAE has the perfect size in Marvelous Designer. The .FBX is broken and small to barely visible in both programs. 

Nothings broken, it's the actual scale of an avatar. 1 unit = 1 centimeter. If you want a meter scale sized avatar, you should group the skeleton (or parent to a transform node that has no shape node) and scale it by 100 on all axis, then rig your item onto it by fitting the size, placement and only then bind it to the skeleton. You'll have to work out for yourself the translation of the explanation above in c4d terms though

[FinnfinnLost]

@OptimoMaximo means you need to scale the stuff you need to the size that you need.

I presume Cinema 4D will be offering you some options when importing files, maybe play around with those a bit. It may be some quirk in the file, maybe link where exactly you got your skeleton from.

[OptimoMaximo]

59 minutes ago, FinnfinnLost said:

@OptimoMaximo means you need to scale the stuff you need to the size that you need.

I presume Cinema 4D will be offering you some options when importing files, maybe play around with those a bit. It may be some quirk in the file, maybe link where exactly you got your skeleton from.

It's not a quirk in the files, and playing with the settings to have it look right in your 3d app may get things even worse rather than improving. The original avatar was created in Maya at centimeter scale to get the software export in native units, making the conversion to the SL  internal file format scalable. If the skeleton refers to single units, the nomenclature won't have effects when said units are converted to another measurement. It happens that Maya uses centimeters internally and that's why it is set up the way it is.

When you parent something to another transform and scale the latter up, tth local space within the transform won't undergo any matrix changes, just the visuals will. So the single joints vectors won't change and everything will stay compatible, while the visuals can be adapted to a meters scale bounding box. Once the skin is bound, their absolute size won't matter as the components positions will become relative to the joints they are influenced by within the deformer.

Edited April 10, 2021 by OptimoMaximo

[VictoriaRaven]

With broken in the FBX I mean it literally, that the Spine Rig hangs out and the face is broken in, while the DAE doesnt. The import settings for that file extension are doing nothing to change that. I exported a blend file today into DAE and it seemed to have fixed the Skeleton issue but still there remains the scale. I made a dummy model on it, it worked somewhat, the scale is by 20% off. Naturally C4D works in mm and I adjusted the scale of course and didnt leave it there. The files come straight frome the SL Wiki, so I dont see how they would be so off. I worked with Maya as main in the past but I cant pay close to 3.000 Dollar a year in subscription fees anymore and settled for C4D.

Edited April 10, 2021 by VictoriaRaven
Added info

[OptimoMaximo]

1 hour ago, VictoriaRaven said:

I worked with Maya as main in the past but I cant pay close to 3.000 Dollar a year in subscription fees anymore and settled for C4D.

There is a new license type, called Indie License, at 350 usd per year.

https://makeanything.autodesk.com/maya-indie

Edited April 10, 2021 by OptimoMaximo

[VictoriaRaven]

Quote

There is a new license type, called Indie License, at 350 usd per year.

I was eying that as they brought this out, my country wasnt eligable back then and now I aleady paid 1100$ for C4D, maybe next year until then I have to figure this out. Thanks though this is a bookmark now.

[OptimoMaximo]

3 hours ago, VictoriaRaven said:

I was eying that as they brought this out, my country wasnt eligable back then and now I aleady paid 1100$ for C4D, maybe next year until then I have to figure this out. Thanks though this is a bookmark now.

Did you try something like the Maya command 'go to bind pose' after import anyway? In Maya when you import a collada file from blender, the mesh is always exploded for example, and going back to bind pose usually fixes those issues

[Charlotte Bartlett]

On 4/11/2021 at 5:16 AM, VictoriaRaven said:

I was eying that as they brought this out, my country wasnt eligable back then and now I aleady paid 1100$ for C4D, maybe next year until then I have to figure this out. Thanks though this is a bookmark now.

I am pretty sure you'll never really be able to what you want in Cinema 4D when it gets to this (even more so when you get to weight painting).
You would be better using Blender (free) if doing anything that involves skeleton, weight painting etc.  

Also in Cinema 4D you need to just change your preference units.  Then it will understand CM/M and you'll then have the proper scale.
Do not change any model size or use project scale etc unless something really does need a scale change versus translation of units.

https://gyazo.com/e307526576fab1bc39d736026f262f2b

MD - Cinema 4D works perfectly on that side of things assuming you have the right version of FBX (see comment below on what version).   Just ensure you are using the correct import/export scaling on import/export for FBX.

Other tip for Cinema 4D Exports make sure none of your model or skeleton is below "0" on the Y scale using World versus Object.

What version / licence do you have for Cinema 4D to clarify on FBX?

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Charlotte Bartlett