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1 minute ago, Fritigern Gothly said:

In my case it is just the other way around. Only when there is already a mutual romantic attraction growing between me and someone else do I start to become curious about what the other looks like and I start to hope (but never ask) that they would volunteer a RL picture of themselves. I never impose my RL pic on others and only show it after making sure it is wanted and even then am I hesitant to show myself (I am not the youngest anymore and not as cute as I once was). I really have to be comfortable with the other person before I feel I can take that step.

This is true however what do you do when you have started to form a romantic attraction and you get the RL picture and you are totally not attracted to the person at all?  This has happened to me both ways though I am speculating that the person who saw my picture ended the relationship because of the picture. It was the timing of when the picture was sent and when the other person broke off the relationship which was a matter of a few hours that makes me attribute it to that.

The time that I received a picture of someone that I had started to become romantic with I was just not attracted at all to them.  Shallow??..possibly but we all know that physical attraction is important in a relationship.  I honestly didn't know how to relate that to them so I ended up just avoiding them to not hurt their feelings.

I don't know what the answer is to this. In a perfect world this would not matter but we all know it does.  

 

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I've caused huge offence on here with my views on this but I haven't seen anything yet to make me change my mind. I don't think you owe anyone your RL sex/gender, any more than you owe them any other

There are a ton of reasons why you'd want to let the other person know. The foundation of a stable relationship- romantic, business, casual, friendly, doesn't matter- is honesty. If you're misrep

What I totally fail to understand is, why does it matter why disclosure of RL gender matters?    What is evident is, that it matters enough to enough people that the question keeps popping up per

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15 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

In a perfect world this would not matter but we all know it does.

   We can produce whatever ideals we want, and they can be however beautiful we want them to be; they can be perfectly just and kind to every living person on earth, wherein we could all live together in peace, love, and understanding.

   Except we don't, because that's just not the world we live in, and it probably never will be - certainly not before the end of our lifetimes, anyway. It is fine to want for something to be better, to strive for it to be better, but to expect it to be perfectly reflected in reality is foolish - heck, people can't even agree on what would make the world better; people oppose each other regardless of what the question is, sometimes, it feels like, for the sake of opposing each other rather than anything else.

   Perhaps Newton's third law is applicable to social issues as well.

   That people are fed up with being harassed, of having their boundaries transgressed, that's absolutely understandable. And yes, that warrants a reaction, and I suppose venting could be one form of reaction. But the generalisation and the prejudice displayed in this thread, it's simply not warranted, it is disgusting.

   To seek understanding is an admirable pursuit, but one will get nowhere by blindfolding oneself with ideals.

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1 minute ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

This is true however what do you do when you have started to form a romantic attraction and you get the RL picture and you are totally not attracted to the person at all?

Good question. I don't fall in love that often on SL and so far I have not been in this situation yet, although it is of course possible that the next romantic interest will fall into that category. I guess I will have to cross that bridge when I come to it.
 

4 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

This has happened to me both ways though I am speculating that the person who saw my picture ended the relationship because of the picture. It was the timing of when the picture was sent and when the other person broke off the relationship which was a matter of a few hours that makes me attribute it to that.

The time that I received a picture of someone that I had started to become romantic with I was just not attracted at all to them.  Shallow??..possibly but we all know that physical attraction is important in a relationship.  I honestly didn't know how to relate that to them so I ended up just avoiding them to not hurt their feelings.

I don't know what the answer is to this. In a perfect world this would not matter but we all know it does.  

What if you become romantically attracted to someone on a different continent? Would you break off the relationship because you can never be together? No judgement, just curious because we are all different people with different things we want out of SL and the friendships and relationship we build in it.
Personally I would be perfectly happy to keep the romance in SL, although if by some huge coincidence I would find myself to be living in the same town as the other, I would definitely hope that we could move our SL romance into RL as well. 

As you know I mentioned that knowing what someone looks like in RL can alter my perception of them but my example was about people with whom I had "only" a friendship. Once the heart becomes involved, I don't really care much about what the other looks like (I care, but not that much) and knowing what they look like in RL does not seem to affect my romantic feelings.
I did get into a romance once with someone who I would never notice in RL and probably not even get attracted to, but in the end the reason why the relationship ended was because there were too many incompatibilities between us. 
Would I have taken this relationship to RL if I could have? I don't think I would have because of the lack of attraction to the RL appearance, but as long as the relationship remained in SL I was perfectly happy with this.

As I said earlier, we are all different people who want different things out of our SL and our RL. The above is just me and I mean in no way that you breaking off the relationship because you weren't attracted to his RL appearance was a bad thing. I'm certain that this was right for you at the time although from the sound of it, perhaps you could have found a better way to break it off than avoiding and/or ghosting him. The latter has happened to me (after a 6-month relationship no less) and that hurt. I would have rather been told what, if anything, I had done wrong than to have been blocked, muted, unfriended and unpartnered from one day to another, which is what happened in my case.

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7 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   We can produce whatever ideals we want, and they can be however beautiful we want them to be; they can be perfectly just and kind to every living person on earth, wherein we could all live together in peace, love, and understanding.

   Except we don't, because that's just not the world we live in, and it probably never will be - certainly not before the end of our lifetimes, anyway. It is fine to want for something to be better, to strive for it to be better, but to expect it to be perfectly reflected in reality is foolish - heck, people can't even agree on what would make the world better; people oppose each other regardless of what the question is, sometimes, it feels like, for the sake of opposing each other rather than anything else.

   Perhaps Newton's third law is applicable to social issues as well.

   That people are fed up with being harassed, of having their boundaries transgressed, that's absolutely understandable. And yes, that warrants a reaction, and I suppose venting could be one form of reaction. But the generalisation and the prejudice displayed in this thread, it's simply not warranted, it is disgusting.

   To seek understanding is an admirable pursuit, but one will get nowhere by blindfolding oneself with ideals.

You quoted me but I really have no idea how this post relates to what I posted. Are you directing these comments to me personally?

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17 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

You quoted me but I really have no idea how this post relates to what I posted. Are you directing these comments to me personally?

   First part, yes. Second part, trailing off. After that, no.

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43 minutes ago, Orwar said:

That people are fed up with being harassed, of having their boundaries transgressed, that's absolutely understandable. And yes, that warrants a reaction, and I suppose venting could be one form of reaction. But the generalisation and the prejudice displayed in this thread, it's simply not warranted, it is disgusting.

I haven't read the whole thread but I am not sure what you are saying.  Are you saying that generalizing about homophobia in this thread is not warranted and is disgusting?

I don't find it disgusting as some people are just fed up with it but I did want to say one thing about homophobia in that the real homophobia is the bullying and the harassment of an individual that could happen should say a male playing a female trust the wrong person with that information and then it turns into bullying and harassment.   This is why I'm suggesting the individual protect themselves first.

Of course there is the problem with what seems an innocent relationship turning into what could be real feelings and even love.  

I don't have any magic remedies for anyone but I can tell you dating and relationships in real life come with a lot of complications and heartache too.  With risking our heart, it cannot 100% be avoided.  But, if one is pretty darn sure they are not going to cam or meet anyone in real life, I think people should just keep their privacy about it to avoid the real homophobic - the bully.

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2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I haven't read the whole thread but I am not sure what you are saying.

   I haven't charged my phone, so the battery is dead. 

3 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Are you saying that generalizing about homophobia in this thread is not warranted and is disgusting?

   No.

4 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I don't find it [...]

200.gif

   It might help to actually read what someone writes before you respond to it, rather than to gloss over it and fill the blanks with assumptions. 

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2 hours ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

what do you do when you have started to form a romantic attraction and you get the RL picture and you are totally not attracted to the person at all?

The odds are good that if a person is truely falling in love, then the person they are falling for will look attractive to them, love has a way of doing this to a person,

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11 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   I haven't charged my phone, so the battery is dead. 

   No.

200.gif

   It might help to actually read what someone writes before you respond to it, rather than to gloss over it and fill the blanks with assumptions. 

Well, some people were reacting to the word homophobic and I wasn't sure that is what you were saying also, and that's why I asked.

I'm still not quite sure what you are saying in your last post.  What is disgusting?  

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I have a female alt, and I really don't run into this issue so much as the alt is mainly used for designing female orientated things that would not work on a male Avatar.

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32 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I'm still not quite sure what you are saying in your last post.  What is disgusting?  

   The flippant usage of the term homophobe to describe someone who, by default of the context, is heterosexual (i.e. doesn't want to be romantically or sexually engaged with someone without assuring themselves of their identity first), employing it as a derogatory slur akin to ones that would warrant an immediate ban from the forums.

   Because this whole thread is projected from a set angle, it suppresses any honest opposition to that stance. It's not 'does RL matter', it's 'why does RL matter'. That alone has brought it from that people are free to simply offer their opinion, to any opinion not aligning with the religious belief that it doesn't to be attacked viciously. 

   It is arrogant, and in so many ways seems like the exact same thing as what actual homophobia entails, which is prejudice and hostility towards a group of people who you either don't understand or who you oppose. That, I find disgusting. 

   Not all people are afraid of sharing their RL info, not all people are afraid to voice verify or against sharing their RL pictures - just take a look around anywhere on the grid, you'll find people voicing in public and you'll find people with their RL pictures in their RL section of their profiles all over.

   How you want to live your SL is up to you, but no one should tell anyone else how they should or shouldn't live their SL. 

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2 hours ago, Orwar said:

   That people are fed up with being harassed, of having their boundaries transgressed, that's absolutely understandable. And yes, that warrants a reaction, and I suppose venting could be one form of reaction. But the generalisation and the prejudice displayed in this thread, it's simply not warranted, it is disgusting.

 

If this refers to something I've said, then it would appear that you have misinterpreted something. (If it's something that someone else has said, then I apologise for saying so).

I have referred specifically to people who are literally afraid that they are gay, or that something they do makes them gay, or that people might think that they are gay. It also, as Fairre pointed out, refers to bullying of LGBT+ people because of hate or prejudice. These things are part of the definition of homophobia, meaning that people who actually believe these specific things are, by definition, homophobic.  

I do not for one second believe that having a heterosexual preference is anywhere near the same thing as homophobia.  I am NOT referring to people who choose only to date people who are RL women for reasons of sexual preference, but ONLY to people who choose only to date RL women because they think that being attracted to someone who is male in RL makes them gay and being day is bad.

I do not for one second believe that anyone who has participated in this thread is homophobic. It's possible that someone here actually does believe those things, but I've not seen any recent evidence of it.

Actually what I am trying to establish is what valid reasons there are for knowing a person's RL gender that are NOT related to sex or sexuality or relationships. 

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30 minutes ago, Orwar said:

The flippant usage of the term homophobe to describe someone who, by default of the context, is heterosexual (i.e. doesn't want to be romantically or sexually engaged with someone without assuring themselves of their identity first), employing it as a derogatory slur akin to ones that would warrant an immediate ban from the forums.

   Because this whole thread is projected from a set angle, it suppresses any honest opposition to that stance. It's not 'does RL matter', it's 'why does RL matter'. 

Well, that is what you were saying.  I agree it may be over-used in this instance a bit because, as I said, the real homophobia, and I should have said 'dangerous' homophobia is that which involves harassment and bullying.  

As far as anyone expecting and think they should be granted real life information is also a bit much and out of touch with reality of how SL is.  SL should be safe for all first of all.  And, secondly, people wanting a more realistic heterosexual experience know they should go on cam.  

As far as the "why" should it matter...it's mostly for sexual reasons I'd gather but then one still doesn't know for sure unless they are on cam.

I still think people should protect themselves and their privacy first and forgot about this "honesty" nonsense about the gender behind an avatar they are just typing with.

Edited by FairreLilette
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7 hours ago, Orwar said:

 It's not 'does RL matter', it's 'why does RL matter'.

I've seen evidence that it matters to a large number of people, and I see it every time I leave my home parcel with a female avatar. If it didn't matter, no-one would ask.

I'm not enquiring about the people for whom it doesn't matter; I am one of those people. I understand that opinion. What I am seeking to understand is the people who are different from me, whose opinion I do not share - those for whom it does matter. 

What I am specifically interested in, is whether there are any non-sexual and non-relationship reasons to need to know, and if there are any such reasons what are they?   The reason I want to know is because when I do leave my home parcel with a female avatar, and I receive those approaches, what should I do with them? Should I continue blocking them all as I currently do, or should I assume that there may be a different reason for the contact, and continue with the conversation? Am I missing out on anything useful by blocking these guys?

So far, there have been a handful of good suggestions, but the overall consensus seems to be "no, it's just about sex".  And that seems to indicate that my current tactic of blocking them all is a good one.

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Well I'll say this much because I see there is the mentality of your not obligated to reveal your RL gender and all this other blah blah BS nonsense and ya sure that is true and all well and good. Up to a point. If your going to enter in to a relationship on here and mess around with people and stuff like that then use common sense and be open and honest with the person/people about who you really are otherwise you can seriously mess someone up mentally. If someone is the type of person who thinks that is an ok thing to do then make no mistake your a POS and probably got bigger issues then just gender ones. lol😎

That having been said if someone wants to play the opposite sex and go to RP sims and RP as the opposite sex and all that jazz then I don't personally see nothing wrong with it. If someone wants to hop on a female alt and go out shopping and/or whatever else then sure why not? Go for it. Chicks got way more shopping options on here half the time anyway. lol😂

To the OP I say this. As long as your not messing with no ones head then your good. I wouldn't sweat it mate. If someone asks what your RL gender is then do what I would do if I were in your shoes and respond with this. Lmao!!!!😁🤣

 

Edited by Velk Kerang
Corrections.
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10 hours ago, Talligurl said:

The odds are good that if a person is truely falling in love, then the person they are falling for will look attractive to them, love has a way of doing this to a person,

I would agree with you..if you had met the person in RL and then started to form a romantic relationship with them. I've met people in RL that I initially thought that they were not particularly attractive, yet once I got to know them and their quirks and personality that did change.

Where I disagree with you is forming a romantic relationship online and then finding out after seeing their picture that you are not attracted to them physically. You said the odds are that if you were truly in love then they would look attractive to you. If you send me a picture of yourself in boxers and a t-shirt smeared with pizza and a beer belly with 5 teeth I don't care how much in love I thought I was with you online, I am not going to be sexually attracted to you in RL.  That is an extreme example of course.

When I first logged into SL I thought this might be a good place to meet a RL partner.  After being here for 3 years my opinion on that has done a 180 turn.  Anyone can send a fake picture and present a fake persona online.  I personally find it dangerous and would never agree now to meet someone in RL. I also feel the same way about dating sites such as match.com. In my younger days I had no issues whatsoever finding someone to date using those types of apps.  I would never use them today.

I still want to find a partner in SL and get to know their real self and have a romantic relationship online. I think you can show the real you without sharing specific details about your RL to protect yourself.  While I have two children in RL and I am honest about everything about them, I also refer to them with different names to protect both myself and them.  I don't see that as lying, I see it as smart.  I don't think I could really say that I was in love with someone I only met online. Of course all that changes if you throw in voice, skype etc. but that is another topic for another thread. :) 

Edited by Sam1 Bellisserian
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5 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

If you send me a picture of yourself in boxers and a t-shirt smeared with pizza and a beer belly with 5 teeth I don't care how much in love I thought I was with you online, I am not going to be sexually attracted to you in RL.  That is an extreme example of course.

Wait, what? Did we date? Lmao!!!!😜

Sorry had to be done. lol😁

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20 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

a beer belly with 5 teeth

Va.. wait no, it's stomachos dentata..

Quote: The word stomach is derived from the Latin stomachus which has roots from the Greek word stomachos (στόμαχος), ultimately from stoma (στόμα), "mouth". Gastro- and gastric (meaning "related to the stomach") are both derived from the Greek word gaster (γαστήρ, meaning"belly").

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32 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Va.. wait no, it's stomachos dentata..

Quote: The word stomach is derived from the Latin stomachus which has roots from the Greek word stomachos (στόμαχος), ultimately from stoma (στόμα), "mouth". Gastro- and gastric (meaning "related to the stomach") are both derived from the Greek word gaster (γαστήρ, meaning"belly").

Either way...it's not attractive. ;)

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On 4/7/2021 at 4:28 PM, Lewis Luminos said:

Actually what I am trying to establish is what valid reasons there are for knowing a person's RL gender that are NOT related to sex or sexuality or relationships. 

Reasons beyond a perfect sexual fantasy is probably more like it.  People fall into these perfect sexual fantasies and then if or when they might find out it's not the same sex as the avatar or as some are saying the person's rl photo doesn't match this perfect fantasy, then the perfect fantasy goes "poof" as though it was all a fake and a lie and somehow people feel betrayed or they might feel like a fool.

I put up the avmatch.com weblink here.  There one might find more what they are looking for if, for example, let's say both profiles put honesty, then you will be matched with someone looking for honesty...etc.  

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If you are honest from the beginning you are never going to get in trouble I think you are actually dating someone or feelings are starting to get serious then you can be honest when asked about your real life, I read often profiles SL is SL and Real is Real, but that does not mean that you have to help everyone in SL with lies and so unfortunately this happens, I see it often enough - For relationships i think it is matter of being honest about who you are 

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4 hours ago, littlebadwolfy said:

If you are honest from the beginning you are never going to get in trouble I think you are actually dating someone or feelings are starting to get serious then you can be honest when asked about your real life, I read often profiles SL is SL and Real is Real, but that does not mean that you have to help everyone in SL with lies and so unfortunately this happens, I see it often enough - For relationships i think it is matter of being honest about who you are 

IF I was getting involved in any kind of sexual or romantic relationship, or looking from one, then of course I would be absolutely honest. But I'm not - I have such a relationship on my main account already and getting involved in another one is something I have absolutely zero interest or desire for.  I'm even reluctant to start simple friendships on alts, because I'm not on them as often, and I'd rather direct any potential new friendships to friend my main account instead.

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On 4/7/2021 at 3:15 AM, Lewis Luminos said:

But that refers to people who you ARE having or seeking to have sex/a romantic relationship with, and this has already been clearly established. I'm interested in whether there is ever a non-sexual reason to require knowing.

It still applies to people who meet you in a club or out anywhere. A lot of people can't handle (IMO) any chance that a person you're attracted to could be something other than who they appear to be. 

Food for thought: You REALLY think all those lesbian couples in SL are REALLY lesbians??? Chew on that....

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So far I am not seeing anyone disagree with the sentiment that if you are starting to discuss your RL lives, have swapped RL information such as names and pictures and hope this will become more than just a casual friendship, then you should be honest about those things because at that point it is becoming an RL relationship and SL is just becoming a method for meeting, chatting etc. to facilitate that.

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I think it’s talking to someone and feel like you are connecting even though you will never meet or get in to a relationship.  A friendship.   It is nice that my friend I made in Tasmania is a woman and usually I don’t really care.  We talked on voice which I rarely do so I know.  For someone that doesn’t,  it’s nice to know that the woman or man you are taking to are really the gender they say they are.  

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