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As mentioned above, to have control over the LI cost and how it would look when zoomed out some, it would need at least one lower LoD model made for it.

If you wanted to walk around inside then it would need a simple physics model.

It is using 4096 x 4096 texture maps ............... This is a problem. When scaled down to the SL acceptable 1024 x 1024 most of the texturing would look very blurred.   4096² down to 1024² would mean 16 pixels in the original texture sampled down to a single pixel when seen ion the kiosk nworld.

To keep the same sharpness of the texturing (texture resolution) seen in those sample images, all the magazine covers, posters, newspaper, paint and wood textures etc would each have to be cut out and pasted into 16 new 1024² UV spaces and the relevant UV islands would need to be repositioned to match the 16 new texture maps . Then the relevant parts would need to be assigned 16 materials. As a mesh object for SL can only have a maximum of 8 materials (UV spaces) the model would need to be separated into at least 2 objects................ The original texture could be baked to the 16 new materials instead of copy and pasting but ................ either way it is quite alot of work for such a simple object.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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On 4/4/2021 at 6:31 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

Does anyone know if an object like this can be uploaded into SL -- and if so, how complicated is that to do?

 

https://www.renderhub.com/leon017/soviet-newspapers-kiosk-souzpechat-pbr

Looks like a straight forward project, the mesh could stand a little simplification, the UV mapping would probably need to be redone to preserve detail while dropping resolution, materials from PBR is straight forward and only needs to be done for the outside elements, no point doing it for anything behind the glass. hand making some LOD models doesn't get much easier than this, should be able to get it to degrade imperceptibly and be very low Li.

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25 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Looks like a straight forward project, the mesh could stand a little simplification, the UV mapping would probably need to be redone to preserve detail while dropping resolution, materials from PBR is straight forward and only needs to be done for the outside elements, no point doing it for anything behind the glass. hand making some LOD models doesn't get much easier than this, should be able to get it to degrade imperceptibly and be very low Li.

This is all true. However, if you have the skills required to do all that, you would just build it from scratch anyways.

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1 hour ago, arton Rotaru said:

This is all true. However, if you have the skills required to do all that, you would just build it from scratch anyways.

As a learning project, sure.

But if it already exists, and you got lots of stuff to model, why not take a shortcut there?

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On 4/7/2021 at 11:48 AM, arton Rotaru said:

This is all true. However, if you have the skills required to do all that, you would just build it from scratch anyways.

Well, that's what I wonder. I'm not going to be able to make a mesh item. But since it's a background building that doesn't have to be entered, I could put prims together and paste the magazines and whatnot on to it from old photos (it's a Soviet news kiosk). I mean, there's be no sense in buying that model and then paying someone else to upload it and more -- they'd have to do all that cutting and pasting to fit everything as Aquila mentioned. Seems insane, actually.

Thanks to everyone who explained it in detail.

It seems like Render Hub is basically not a place to shop for SL items, it's too much work and too complicated to upload them. You'd be better off commissioning someone to make it themselves in Blender or whatever. They'd be at no advantage to buy something there. I imagine Google Sketch-up is the same?

 

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50 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I imagine Google Sketch-up is the same?

Sketchup models initially seem to offer an easy path because the model.kmz file is actually a zipped DAE. Rename the extension to .zip and extract it. BUT...

There are unlikely to be suitable LoDs

The  triangle count can be frightening if some of the shapes or faces have been formed by splitting or subdividing other parts. (There are scripted methods of dealing with this that the Auran Trainz RubyTM package employs but  there is no intermediate DAE stage, just an IM mesh file, that won't import into SL).

Typically a sketchup model had a texture per face so lots of uploads (although some creators will have used mapping portions of a single texture to faces)

My preference after some experimenting is to not import things from outside SL that weren't designed for it in the first place, what seems like a walk in the park always ends up as a stagger through the vale of tears.

 

For your Russian Pravda-Vend I would build it out of prims first, then selectively group some of the prims together and using an in-world tool convert them into mesh or sculpts, for example the glass panes would converts to a single sculpted prim with the messy sculpt-texture faces nicely hidden as the top/bottoms of the panes.  The magazines  could be done as mesh with 1 or 2 LI but 14 individual faces. 

 

Edited by Profaitchikenz Haiku
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1 hour ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

If you're not gonna simplify or LOD it you gain nothing from doing this.

See people doing this all the time.

Prims -> export as collada -> upload collada -> cheese the LOD settings -> Lower Li

The resulting mesh being garbage tier doesn't matter when you can break the entire LOD system with a slider.

 

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2 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

If you're not gonna simplify or LOD it you gain nothing from doing this.

The tool(s) take a group of prims, say 4 for the Pravda-vend windows, and convert those into 1 prim sculpt, or a 1 LI mesh. That's the simplification stage. For mesh there's then the business of choosing a physics model, triangle counts at different etc on the upload. It works, just not so finely-tuned as Blender, I admit.

 

39 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Prims -> export as collada -> upload collada -> cheese the LOD settings -> Lower Li

I know, that fails gloriously, the Marketplace tools available for creating sculpts or mesh from collections of prims are what I was referring to.

Sometimes I get the distinct impression that we few who still build inworld are very much regarded as the knuckle-dragging cousins of those who build in outer space.

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43 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

The tool(s) take a group of prims, say 4 for the Pravda-vend windows, and convert those into 1 prim sculpt, or a 1 LI mesh. That's the simplification stage.

That is not simplifying anything, at best you reduce draw calls by reducing the number of material faces, but wit what you just explained, all you've done is convert a set of parametric prims into a mesh that effectively takes longer to download. You can save a ton of polygons when you do those conversions, but you have to actually simplify the model.

47 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

Sometimes I get the distinct impression that we few who still build inworld are very much regarded as the knuckle-dragging cousins of those who build in outer space.

That was uncalled for, I use prims all the time because I need a more flexible build that I can edit on the fly, there is nothing wrong with in-world building.

There is everything wrong is converting prims to mesh with zero cleanup, and then fiddling with the LOD generator because you decided that it should be 1LI.

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50 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

That was uncalled for,

Oh dam, now I've gone and upset you without even making an effort. It was just my warped sense of humour :)

 

52 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

There is everything wrong is converting prims to mesh with zero cleanup

So let me just explain, a certain number of prims are placed together, and where faces of a prim are completely obscured because they adjoin another prim and so will never show, setting them to transparent means the creation tool does not generate a face there. So in a group of 8 cubes, which would normally have 48 individual faces to be triangulated and textured, perhaps 16 might be eliminated by this means and the resultant mesh object only has 32 faces. Isn't that cleaning up?

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44 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

So let me just explain, a certain number of prims are placed together, and where faces of a prim are completely obscured because they adjoin another prim and so will never show, setting them to transparent means the creation tool does not generate a face there. So in a group of 8 cubes, which would normally have 48 individual faces to be triangulated and textured, perhaps 16 might be eliminated by this means and the resultant mesh object only has 32 faces. Isn't that cleaning up?

It is, but because how prims are generated, exported cubes for example have all their faces use 3x3 grids of triangles, so 18 triangles per side, instead of the 2 needed. Likewise, twisted toruses and tubes create tons of unneeded geometry.

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1 hour ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

exported cubes for example have all their faces use 3x3 grids of triangles,

Is this just what the "export-as-dae" Coffee mentioned does, or do the in-world tools such as mesh generator also do this? I have looked at some of the mesh I created this way to export to Trainz and I saw 2 triangles per face using the PEV tools.

ETA

I've just looked at one of the mesh builds I created using Naonao Watanabe's "Mesh Generator" inworld for exporting to Trainz a couple of year ago, after realising I had brought it back into SecondLife as a replacement for one of my earlier sculpted efforts. The only way I know to examine the faces to see how many triangles they are composed of is to turn on wireframe. Using that, I can state with certainty that the mesh object I created and re-uploaded has only two triangles per face. A cube prim rezzed alongside it does indeed show the 3 x 3 grid of triangle, therefore the in-world tool does what is required to cull/simplify/efficiently triangulate the faces of the mesh it creates.

(I wish you could limit the wire-framing to an object you select, trying to look through all the triangles of the sandbox terrain to see what I needed to see made my eyes blur over.)

Edited by Profaitchikenz Haiku
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