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PROPOSAL= RIGGING POSE AND EDIT MODE WOES DO NOT REFLECT EDIT IN OTHER MODE.


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3 hours ago, Aquila Kytori said:

Something else I noticed ......... the skeleton and the mesh are not central to the World origin.

It would probably be a good idea to slide everything forward so the origin is between the feet. That's where SL expects the skeleton to be. Then again, I've never worked with Animesh pets.

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The first screenshot below shows you how to first remove all the vertex groups from all the vertices of the lower teeth :   And the next screenshot shows you how Assign the lower teeth

Basically. There is no easy way to use both. If you weight an eyeball to both the system bone and the alt bone, it will play a blend of a half-strength system animation and a half-strength custom anim

I just played with it some in 2.92. You don't need to hide anything. (You can if you want to. It can make the important parts easier to see and click on.) Select just the bones you want to re-do

Posted Images

@Aquila thank you I understand concept of loop cuts but as this is a  slightly different problem:

This is the first section the other to the left triangulated  side I am having problems with  :
f4082ffcd4dadfd92634a816ac4cf1de.png

Pressing Alt + J only turns some triangles to quads:
As one of the top pieces remains a triangle it is hard to use ctrl + R to loop cut

ie03c0a66bee924708ac77f1599b482325.png

ie

 31b845737a4f94a799f5981f36fe1611.png

It wont provide a loop cut  are there any other options please ?

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@Quarrel Kukulcan I am not sure of your meaning of your term 'sharps' I have not come across it idk.

I have been fire-fighting this mesh before I last posted to Aguila . There was a great many odd mesh shape distortions being created with miss-placed bones from auto weight as you noticed mGroin was one some of the fingers was also wrong. The strange oddity about this was before we started on the mouth eyes and tongue the mesh worked in auto weight  mode. 

I have had to go to pose post mesh through pose mode look for distortions and look closer in weight paint to try to see which part of this mesh this is coming from . It would be really helpful if the blender team carried this node edit parameters in to weight paint so you could select a node on distortion sadly this is not currently possible,  however I noticed a lot of strange bones in the wrong places idk why but its taken a while to check it all by vector node . Which I have completed . Its pretty much posable again without distortions but am going to come back to it after i get tail loop cuts in as currently i need another solution to place them :)

Hugs D

 

 

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53 minutes ago, VirtualKitten said:

It wont provide a loop cut  are there any other options please ?

 @VirtualKitten Often when there are too many edges joining at a single vertex it is not possible to convert the triangles to quads. In that case you have to only select the triangles that will convert to quads and then connect across the other tris with the Connect Vertex Path tool, ( J  key ). (or other times with the Knife tool ).

But first there is an unwanted vertex in this part of the tail, (a vertex in the middle of an edge).  Select this vertex and use the Dissolve tool.   to open the Delete menu, and choose the  Dissolve vertices option :

1-min.thumb.png.bb20ba2eec138c34c68f431d47e4d05e.png

 

Next select the lower 8 triangles and convert them to quads.

2-min.thumb.png.633f2ac754c1e35b66abf2a1ae154367.png

 

Add a loop cut to the newly formed quads :

2a-min.thumb.png.37797c99c80889cbcc78d479dc7ea7e9.png

 

Select the two vertices at the end of the loop cut :

3-min.thumb.png.3721b5ecb067d023f5b9e3ffd3eb360c.png

 

Use the J key to connect them :

4-min.thumb.png.164122031866b0dc7b197048844b1fa6.png

 

Et voila :

5-min.thumb.png.252f7ced17ac40cf4bba62a01acb1bc6.png

 

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, VirtualKitten said:

ts fine until i join 

No it is wrong long before you tried to join !  🙁

In the second screenshot of my previous post it says "Select the lower 8 triangles and covert to quads"  Eight !   8 is not the same as 6.

When I tried selecting only 6 of the 8 lower triangles I got the same result as shown in your image.

This is the 6 triangles you had selected :

B-min.thumb.png.f62998072209d11551a0974f897aaf8a.png

 

and this is the 8 tris you should have had selected before converting to quads :

A-min.thumb.png.9045b0f5feebdaceb71e939e50d629aa.png

 

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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Posted (edited)

am getting a lot of these type pf errors for some reason when i rotate or move model its hard too track them down Its Its fine until i rotate model and it gives not much clue as to what is wrong  these look like distortions from the hands to the floor . Its happening on both sides there should just be claws in this area not silly long things :

99360c118da4ccbd73a5c04e5ddddc84.png

70d127c015fd1318506a3cb2d64779d0.png

 

Edited by VirtualKitten
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Posted (edited)

I am getting thigs dropping down onto floor every time i move a bone . Is it supposed to be doing this as it sits at rest ok and when you move a bone it drops them then i noticed when i shup properties one came back  suggesting its something else can anyone help :mElbowRight moved:

8a609a6bc578f5c22ca066e4914b1e13.png

At rest all is well no spikes jumping out 

df53195622e933ec899c77e4571fb3b2.png

Move elbow and this happens to both 

57969a1d5aa4cf343028dac6a36cbbb3.png

Edited by VirtualKitten
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12 minutes ago, VirtualKitten said:

It doesn't seem to matter what i do but i cant get rid of these

 

It has to be that those vertices are  weighted incorrectly.

In Edit mode select one of those vertices and check which vertex groups they belong to.

If you still can't sort it out you will have to share that part of the model like you did the tail yesterday.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, VirtualKitten said:

Yes I went through al vertices despair is sinking in 

If you had done that you would have seen that many vertices are incorrectly weighted.

For example the area around mHandThumb3Right. Look at the screenshot below. Why is this vertex weighted to the mPelvis and mShoulderRight when it should be weighted to mHandThumb3Right and mHandThumb2Right ?

MHandThumb3Right-min.thumb.png.3b908468567a8c93c47f7d8b1d3adcc5.png

You need to delete mPelvis and mShoulderRight from this vertex and then paint it so that it is weighted only to mHandThumb3Right and mHandThumb2Right.

MHandThumb3Rightd-min.thumb.png.9c8dcd7dd5d1c97dfb261dda7df4f3a7.png

 

Lets look at the next bone...... the selected vertex is weighted to the correct vertex group

MHandThumb2Right-min.thumb.png.34f9b118b501a4e0d1c1b44049da0080.png

 

but ......... this one isn't !    :

MHandThumb3Rightb-min.thumb.png.1f72066d941cba51adce951701e194b7.png

 

This is approximately how this part of the mesh should look and the same vertex weighted correctly :

MHandThumb3Rightf-min.thumb.png.3e9c7de70cb51d55c84354757d9644ed.png

 

What you need to do is starting at the extremities of the wing check how the mesh deforms when rotating the appropriate bone and if something looks wrong then fix. 

I found that sometimes it helps to have the Auto Normalize option enabled and sometimes not. the same with the Vertex selection in weight paint mode. See screenshot below for these two options  :

MHandThumb3Rightc-min.thumb.png.189f07c8921c6214c82b5f9a0395b11c.png

 

I also found that if it seems that the weight painting isn't working any more then enable or disable one or both of these two options.

I think it is usually best to paint with a very low Strength value for the brush.

Its just like the tail you have to do alot of painting by hand. It will be good practice for you. :)

If you find weight painting differ cult it is because you have not spent enough time learning from Youtube videos and then putting what you have learnt into practice.

 

So simply put,

If parts of the mesh deforms badly when rotating the bones it is because one or more of the vertices in that area is badly weighted !

Its a difficult model to start weight painting on but you have been told that before. Just do a little, one bone at a time.  The more you do the easier it will get, and you have alot to do so........... ;)

 

 

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, VirtualKitten said:

It would be really helpful if the blender team carried this node edit parameters in to weight paint so you could select a node on distortion sadly this is not currently possible, 

When in Weight paint mode if you enable  Vertex selection and then hold down the Shift key and select a vertex you can see which vertex groups and weights it is assigned to. Hold down the Shft key to select the next vertex. It is always the last vertex selected that it is shown in the Item > Vertex Weights panel.

Vertex_weights.gif.5bf450f39ea2d144a883facf60ed27ec.gif

 

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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13 hours ago, VirtualKitten said:

I am not sure of your meaning of your term 'sharps' I have not come across it idk.

These aqua lines, from one of your own images:

5ff3c11fe47cccba347ac3a2c97c018d.png

They mark where you want your model to look like it has a distinct, sharp edge between faces instead of the usual smooth transition. Looking at some of the other model pictures, I don't think they're random anymore, so don't worry about them.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, VirtualKitten said:

am getting a lot of these type pf errors for some reason when i rotate or move model its hard too track them down Its Its fine until i rotate model and it gives not much clue as to what is wrong  these look like distortions from the hands to the floor .

The problem is that you have extra, bad weights mixed in with the good ones.

If your left thumb isn't moving correctly, you can't just check that is has the correct weight to the left thumb bone. You also have to make sure it has no other weights. Accidentally getting some weight from your hip or chin or right wing bone mixed in will mess things up. @Aquila Kytorialready mentioned using the vertex Item Info panel. You can also look at your model in Weight Paint mode and click through every single weight group while looking for red areas to show up where they shouldn't be. If you're looking at the right shoulder group and parts of your right fingers turn red, for example...that's a problem.

badshoulder.jpg

Edited by Quarrel Kukulcan
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Posted (edited)

Thanks but to be honest I have been through all of these  and don't know why they are not sticking in place . Previously had had a problem with mPelvis bone in the week and removed all of them so don't understand, how they crept back,  also in your example you found no mElbowRight although this new method shift click with cursor select  It did find some :0 so hope is better    this is the problem I am currently having  as it creates these daggers and distortions when mElbowRight Moved .

 

1b1846c99780d9f1e6ce3da602338c86.png

Also  i tried clicking on primary nodes but there is no extra influence shown

0b13961afa3b69b3c582991b9b182f87.png

Also sometimes Shift Click on a node nothing is shown at all when a vertice is selected so how can it be affected by mElbow?c8433b7688d185ba8194efdec6ae2f7c.png

 

Sharps: Yes I nocked this blue but do not know why it appeared or what it meant it just went blue one day xD

 

 

 

Edited by VirtualKitten
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, VirtualKitten said:

Thanks but to be honest I have been through all of these  and don't know why they are not sticking in place . Previously had had a problem with mPelvis bone in the week and removed all of them so don't understand, how they crept back,  also in your example you found no mElbowRight although this new method shift click with cursor select  It did find some :0 so hope is better    this is the problem I am currently having  as it creates these daggers and distortions when mElbowRight Moved .

But you do know why parts of the mesh / vertices are "Sticking in place" !!!

You just wont admit it to yourself.  let me repeat this one last time ...........

 

If parts / vertices are "sticking in place" it is because the vertices are incorrectly weighted.

Look at the gif below. I have rotated the mElbowRight bone a little. Each time one of those "sticking in place" vertices is selected notice that each and everyone of them are weighted to the wrong vertex groups. Two of them are not weighted to any vertex group at all. So it is normal that they stick in place.

Vertex_weights.gif.5c49d215cf63784f9b1572413cc5419b.gif

 

Note that if you hold down the Ctrl key while selecting the vertices,  only that vertex is selected.

Holding down the Shift key while selecting will add that vertex to the vertices already selected.

 

If we zoom in on the vertex that was the first to be selected in the gif above we see that it is a vertex that is part of the thumb but is is weighted to three vertex groups that have nothing to do with the thumb. In the image below delete these three vertex groups from this vertex by hitting the little X buttons.

Screenshot_1-min.thumb.png.365c187bfa0ca00f4c3c7302c0985fec.png

 

Now it does not belong to any vertex groups.

This vertex should belong to the mHandThumb3Right and a little to mHandThumb2Right.

After a little painting of this and the other vertices we get for the mHandThumb3Right :

 

Screenshot_2-min.thumb.png.597723c5008dddc800fa4a1e7117d10a.png

And for mHandThumb2Right :

Screenshot_3-min.thumb.png.385e78a7a80a88d967f470c74ff2e8b4.png

 

 

Edited to add:

It should be noted that I also tried applying Assign Automatic Weights from Bones to the wing mesh and it did correct those "sticking in place" vertices.

I did this with only the right wing mesh and the right wing bones mesh visible and selected. Thats to say the rest of the bones and mesh hidden.

IF you are going to do this I would strongly recommend that you save your file before attempting it . 🙂

 

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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Posted (edited)

Hi @Aquila Kytori sorry for the silence this was getting me down and decided to do some scripting as nothing i could do came up with same results as you 2.92 did the same thing sighs so now am stuck on how to fix this as I am not seeing what you are seeing :(

a65c698742099dd14c7651c0ff810f9a.png

 

 

 

Edited by VirtualKitten
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1 hour ago, VirtualKitten said:

nothing i could do came up with same results as you 2.92 did the same thing

Don't just look at which bones the vertex is weighted to. Look at the weight numbers. That vertex has a weight of ZERO to the thumb bone. It needs to be 1.0.

 

zero.png

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2 hours ago, VirtualKitten said:

I am not seeing what you are seeing

And guess what ? .......... I am not seeing what you are seeing! 😄

What I have in the rightwing.blend file you linked to is very close to what you are showing in your image but as far as I can judge that part of the "sticking" mesh is made up of 3 vertices but in your screenshot it looks to be only two vertices. So I am guessing we are not working with exactly the same mesh.

Left is from your image, left is from the rightwing.blend file :

1037518882_3vertices-min.thumb.png.8666a69fb083a5a7aefb9810815c0615.png

 

It would be helpfull if you could change your Zero Weights option from Active to None then what is black in your image would be blue, and also enable Show Wire  in the Viewport Overlays panel.  See image below

Screenshot_1-min.thumb.png.ffd4ba3fb4049d9f29b07c3007dc6458.png

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