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PROPOSAL= RIGGING POSE AND EDIT MODE WOES DO NOT REFLECT EDIT IN OTHER MODE.


VirtualKitten
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Posted (edited)

9a643f418781bca922631b192dff70db-min.thumb.png.61995467a1aac8f9f458e03a593fee53.png

How can you paint with a Subtract brush with a weight of 0.00 ! ! ! 

That means you are subtracting nothing !

 

Instead of switching all the time between the Add and Subtract brushes set your brush to Mix  and leave it at Mix and paint with the Weight at 1.000  or  0.000  and nothing in between.

When using the Mix brush with a weight of 1.000 means you are adding weight,  ( equivalent to the Strength value.)

Mix brush Adding weight :

add-min.thumb.png.991cb64d8caa16844bf7be91e8382a2a.png

 

When using the Mix brush with a weight of 0.000 means you are subtracting weight, (equivalent to the Strength value.)

Mix brush Subtracting weight :

subtract-min.thumb.png.6d5ac18177f4481bbdf32b58b8f21213.png

 

 

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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Posted (edited)

Yes I am just trying to get rest working I don't know why that those two nodes stuck there was one on tongue i fixed too I am just trying to check rest would you like me to send whole file ? When I lookd at nodes there was lots of other bits all out of lace too like collar bone on lips rights and left lips swapped over its my first attempt at this so its been well worth learning it i hope others will be learning this too

I don't mind sharing all project in public domain but it cant be sold 

Edited by VirtualKitten
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Posted (edited)

What ! ! !  

I misread, I had thought the dragon done. From the tip of its tail to mFaceTongueTip.

So really it is only the tongue ? lol

 

32 minutes ago, VirtualKitten said:

would you like me to send whole file ?

Unless it was you that created the dragon model I think it would be best if you didn't share it in a public forum.

 

My guess would be you now need to go through each vertex group in weight paint mode and if you see some obvious errors like areas of the model weighted to the wrong vertex group then using the Mix brush set to a Weight of 0.000 with a strength of say 0.30 or so, AND the Auto Normalize option checked,  carefully subtract that vertex group from that area of the skin. Stopping to check how the area is effected when rotating the appropriate bone(s)

Keep at it and you will get it done eventually.

Later when you have done a bit more correcting and still feel you need some help you can send me the .blend in a private message.

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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Posted (edited)

The wings are still not perfect the skins a bit silly

I changed them by accident and saved them grr lost my work. Can i not select the parts in weight paint mode and set automatic weights to bones when i do this nothing changes.

 

53e5aa4a9a9367e9c46dda2bd82912cd.png

Edited by VirtualKitten
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, VirtualKitten said:

Can i not select the parts in weight paint mode and set automatic weights to bones when i do this nothing changes.

I just tried setting automatic weights to the tongue.

 

1: In Edit mode, Face select mode....... Select the part of the mesh you want to re-do the automatic weights.

1b: If the weights assigned to the vertices are really messed up probably best to use the Remove from All Groups option for this selected part of the mesh.

2: Invert the selection with   Ctrl + I

3: H  key to hide selection.

4: Object mode.......... Select the bones then Shift select the mesh.  Next switch to Weight paint mode.

2: Select only the bone(s) you want to use to re-asign automatically the weights to the mesh.

   In this case I selected the two tongue bones.

4: Enable the Vertex Selection  hide / (mask out)  the part of the mesh that was hidden in Edit mode.

5: Use the A key to select All the visible geometry.H

6: Use the keyboard short-cut keys   Shft + H   to hide all the other bones.

    So now you should only have visible the part of the mesh and the relevent bones.

7: Open the Weights menu and choose the  Assign Automatic from Bones  option.

 

The first screen shot shows the tongue after I have Removed All Vertex Groups.

759790572_Tonguebeforenoweights-min.thumb.png.56de5d572ec1ab7efdd386dabd7d203d.png

 

And after Assigning Automatic weights from Bones.

1123553985_Tongueafter-min.thumb.png.0c0560687c456a24d81055d704e96a37.png

 

 

The next screenshot is showing what not to do. This is the result of  Assigning Automatic Weights from bones without first hiding all the irreverent bones :

1714834804_Tonguebadweights-min.thumb.png.7e0d8252a23fa2e08a18e16fc48db4f8.png

Only a very small part of the mesh is weighted at 100%.

In Edit mode...... with a single vertex selected, we can see that this vertex is only weighted at 0.119 to the mFaceTonguebase and not even weighted to any of the surrounding bones. This is not good.

1401008291_singlevertex-min.png.10dae61f800d299c92cabce066f381b4.png

 

But when we look at the same vertex after hiding irrelevant bones and then Assign Automatic Weights from Bones, it has a weight of 0.989 to the mFaceTonguebase. Which I think is OK.

1199109740_singlevertexcorrect-min.png.796cc1feddc492ddba7f7bcee2ae30f4.png

 

All this may look complicated when written down like this but none of this is new to you. We have done all the steps before.

 

Perhaps  @Quarrel Kukulcan can say if this is the correct method to re-assign Automatic Weights from Bones when trying to re-weight only part of a mesh ?

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Aquila Kytori said:

Perhaps  @Quarrel Kukulcan can say if this is the correct method to re-assign Automatic Weights from Bones when trying to re-weight only part of a mesh ?

I just played with it some in 2.92. You don't need to hide anything. (You can if you want to. It can make the important parts easier to see and click on.)

  1. Select just the bones you want to re-do the weighting from (in pose or weight mode). Every other bone will be ignored.
  2. Select just the vertices you want to re-do the weighting on (in weight mode). Every other vert will be left alone.
  3. Pick "Weights" -> "Assign Automatic from Bones".

The new weights aren't normalized with the bones you aren't redoing. You really shouldn't be doing this to only some of the bones affecting an area, but if you have to, you should then also do "Weights" -> "Normalize All" (and go down into the recent operations modifier popup to make sure the options are "Deform Pose Bones" and turn OFF "Lock Active" before you do anything else). NOTE: "Normalize All" also affects only your currently selected vertices, so you should keep the same verts selected from step 2.

Edited by Quarrel Kukulcan
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Aquila Kytori said:

 

All this may look complicated when written down like this but none of this is new to you. We have done all the steps before.

Yes its, not so complicated now , you haved explained brilliantly Aquilla .  :)I think the 'single vector nodes' in edit model  is the way to go everything else seems to confuse it . I tried painting myself out of these wing bone mess and the resources we used with nodes on the head worked on the wings .

I think whats is happening is the weight paint system can do much more than is used in Second Life, but in my model it seems to add multiple weights to nodes so instead of it conected to one vertext group its conected to multiple. Then all these other vertext group seem to excert a differant force on the mesh vertect group  which seems to pull it off position  .

You can delete these other vertect weight groups from each singlevector  node which is selected  from it under action key 'N' menu, which I have been doing to get a cleaner position. Its how I managed to get tongue working . Without the knowlege of these single vertice nodes  I think all would have been lost. I ended up re-doing left foot and have right side left . Although checking every node seems daunting its not so bad xD if the result works xD

Edited by VirtualKitten
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Posted (edited)

Hi again well that was a big task but, hey not to bad. I  am now stuck with just a few bugs that I would like to solved, hard bends  and how to stop them . Principally should i could add more loop cuts or should i do something more with weights I don't think i completely understand the relationship of the colours yet only that 1 is strongest 0 is no influence. If i make this figure lower will it soften the bend or will more loop cuts be a better alternative. If i make everything south of yellow  green will this sften the bend ?

 

de7769668d9e33321871b05bf254ed60.png

I tried softening it and it didn't give me a smooth snake like cure . I presume i need more loop cuts ?

bc5170577782bd47d881f13050feaa37.png

Edited by VirtualKitten
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Posted (edited)

Your in too deep now to worry about warnings like that.

Just do it and see what happens. My guess is it will be Ok.

Just select the area you want to add the loop cut and convert the triangles to quads :

812416784_Loopcutrevisited-min.thumb.png.d18a7f57521ee61acfb1458b21da2b79.png

 

Add the loop cut. If it is incomplete use the the method from yesterday : Steps 4 and 5 in the screenshots below.

1009760370_Loopcut-min.thumb.png.5850105358d9c972f86f697665ffd1b3.png.04048233c3553c9eb500e8f0349da18c.png

1573742667_Loopcut2-min.thumb.png.5a1629dc38905e3a07a8cfa93a1d6de1.png.30cfb42121cf41f24a2c6a70416b0ce3.png

 

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, VirtualKitten said:

I am trying to get loop parts Ctrl _+ R  to work its says it does not work well on deformed mesh its triangulated i am wondering if this is the problem?

Being triangulated will stop loop cuts from working. That feature only works on quads.

The warning is because your mesh has an armature bending it. You can ignore it. Blender puts up that warning if you have any type of deformation modifier on a mesh. (An armature is one kind but there are others.)

 

21 hours ago, VirtualKitten said:

I  am now stuck with just a few bugs that I would like to solved, hard bends  and how to stop them . Principally should i could add more loop cuts or should i do something more with weights I don't think i completely understand the relationship of the colours yet only that 1 is strongest 0 is no influence. If i make this figure lower will it soften the bend or will more loop cuts be a better alternative. If i make everything south of yellow  green will this sften the bend ?

It depends what the flaws look like. A sharp bend is probably due to having too few polygons. Adding loop cuts or subdividing (and then weight tweaking) will fix that. Distorted bending is a weighting issue. Blender's automatic weight smoothing will help some -- that's how I fixed picture #3 below -- but you can fix it manually too if you start developing the skill. Eventually you will get a feel for how fast your weights should fade to 0 as you get away from the joint.

weightproblems.jpg

Edited by Quarrel Kukulcan
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Posted (edited)

Alt=J to convert tris to quads  it is then and Ctrl R to loop cut as two few polys Thank you 

5ff3c11fe47cccba347ac3a2c97c018d.png

 

What weighting should i give to this to create a nice curve ? I have tried different weight color but cannot fathom why i ant get this to curve nicely .maybe some examples of weights and bends might be helpful

Edited by VirtualKitten
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Posted (edited)

Hi @Aquila Kytori

Hi put my tail up as cant wait it do anything it should do as its all connected its really complicated  much different approach needed me thinks to everything else as i cant get it to make nice natural weighted movements what am i doing wrong please? Also the weight system wont paint again on my 2.92. it just sits and looks at me moving my mouse over it doing nothing in mix mode thanks DISCUSS

 

https://pasteall.org/blend/d06f48075fb243218b5634fa0af0e1be

The process is to select, then copy and paste into a new .blend file :

  1. In Edit mode select as much of the geometry around one of the eyes as you can.
  2. Use the key board shortcut Shft + D to make a copy of the selected geometry.
  3. With the geometry still selected hit the P key to open the Separate menu and choose the option Selection. This will separate it into a new object.
  4. In Object mode select only this new object then use Ctrl + C to copy it to "clipboard".

Next is to paste it into a new .blend file,

  1. File > New  General > ( Don't save ) and a new .blend will open.
  2. Delete the default cube.
  3. Paste in the Eye geometry with Ctrl + V  .  The bones will be included with the mesh object.
  4. Save this new .blend and upload to https://pasteall.org/blend/

Edited Wednesday at 05:08 AM by VirtualKitten

Edited by VirtualKitten
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Posted (edited)

I solved that it was the head root i had not set it to .4 on entire head. I am back to this terrible looking tale is there any way i can make it look more natural please moving bones weights or anything DISCUSS Suggestions please thank you ? i think really i could to with a mTail.5 lol  to go further along to mTail5  but don't think Linden import will like that option

73ffd96004e5a62354efd562a24433c9.png

 

I lengthened bone mTail4 does this look better?

2236a97306bcd8cfbbc0140ab2a2b458.png

Edited by VirtualKitten
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Posted (edited)

I don't think you will ever get beautiful curves when bending the tail simply because there is not enough bones in such a long tail.

Anyways I had a go at weighting the bones of your tail.

First I tried to clean up the geometry a bit,  and then removed some of the loop cuts you had added around mTail1 and mTail 2.

I added a few loops around the ends of some of the other bones.

You can download a copy of the modified tail here https://pasteall.org/blend/f85b4a14b42b4b41b583675199b8277d

 

When weight painting I went for the fill in the majority of the bone red and the part that joins to the next bone green aproach.

Then bending each bone to test and while bent  adding or removing weights where there was too much deformation using a brush with very low strength values.

342387332_Boneweights-min.thumb.png.30a468496c802a5665ec8473f5c7488d.png

 

The result is far from perfect but perhaps Ok if you don't try rotating the bones too much. I don't think  you would need to rotate the bones alot when animating.

For some reason you had the vertices of mTail6,  weighted partially to the mgroin vertex group ?

 

Something else I noticed ......... the skeleton and the mesh are rotated a little around the Z axis :

22539827_worldorigin-min.thumb.png.bdc89ee43390f773db7948922ac6b4d0.png

 

I don't know if that will cause you problems later on ? Perhaps @Quarrel Kukulcan could comment on this ?

 

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, VirtualKitten said:

can this be straightened or does it need to be straightened manually by moving nodes?

You can scale the edge loop to zero along one of the axis , for example   S  Y  0   validate. Then in side view you will probably need to rotate it a little.

 

Another method could be : when you add the new edge loop make this edge loop parallel with one of the existing edge loops to the right or left of it.

Ctrl R  to add new edge loop.   LMB  to validate.  You will notice one of the edges connected to an one of the existing edge loops turn yellow, and the cursor change to two little arrows. pressing the    key will make the new loop parallel to one edge. if this is not the correct edge then after pressing the E key press the   F   key to make it parallel to the other edge (Loop).

Edge_loop.gif.f79268a7bf8b9eedd054a92827aa403c.gif

 

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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Posted (edited)
On 5/14/2021 at 4:17 AM, VirtualKitten said:

Hi put my tail up as cant wait it do anything it should do as its all connected its really complicated  much different approach needed me thinks to everything else as i cant get it to make nice natural weighted movements what am i doing wrong please? Also the weight system wont paint again on my 2.92. it just sits and looks at me moving my mouse over it doing nothing in mix mode thanks DISCUSS

Weight painting isn't working because you've somehow switched from the Draw brush to the Averaging brush, which means all you're doing is averaging the existing weights together instead of painting new values. (see pic #1)

mTail6 is weighted pretty well, but it looks like you also accidentally painted the end of your tail with both mTail6 and mGroin in almost the same way. Take the groin weighting off. mTail5 is almost good but the red area is too large. Weights should be about 0.5 at the joints, not 1.0. mTail4's weighting is jagged and irregular. mTail1 is also irregular, plus it has stray extra weighting in the hip. mTail2 and mTail3 never go higher than 0.5 anywhere. See pic #2 for a rough idea of how weights should go, or watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEwZTN8LBo0.

(EDIT: Oops. I see you've already seen that video since you posted that link yourself upthread. Still, watch how the artist paints weights around the joints. Pay attention to the color there, and how fast it fades off, and what brush mode the artist uses.)

Your mesh overall has a lot of random edges that are aqua because they're marked Sharp, for no apparent reason. You should clear those.

Finally, and this is a bit of fine tuning: your tailspikes shouldn't bend. You can fix this by giving every vertex in a spike the exact same weights. (see pic #3 for one way to do this)

saveas2.jpg

saveas1.jpg

saveas3.jpg

Edited by Quarrel Kukulcan
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