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PROPOSAL= RIGGING POSE AND EDIT MODE WOES DO NOT REFLECT EDIT IN OTHER MODE.


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The first screenshot below shows you how to first remove all the vertex groups from all the vertices of the lower teeth :   And the next screenshot shows you how Assign the lower teeth

Basically. There is no easy way to use both. If you weight an eyeball to both the system bone and the alt bone, it will play a blend of a half-strength system animation and a half-strength custom anim

I just played with it some in 2.92. You don't need to hide anything. (You can if you want to. It can make the important parts easier to see and click on.) Select just the bones you want to re-do

Posted Images

3 hours ago, VirtualKitten said:

I selected the bone and as you can see from the video  that the rotating the bone in weight and painting the arts not moving does not move them. What am i doing wrong as am new to this 

It could be a number of things. You might be in the wrong cursor mode. You might have selected some vertices (which means you can only paint those, not the rest). You might have locked that weight group. Unfortunately I can't say for sure. I don't actually think it's any of those based on what I can see in the UI, but you don't show all of it.

Separate question: you say you're assigning automatic weights. How? Did you just do it once when you originally parented the armature, or did you reassign them after every Edit Mode skeleton change?

And a suggestion. Set aside the dragon for a bit and go through some basic tutorials first. It will be easier, it will possibly be faster, and you will get a better end result. Aquila has posted one video already. I just found
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkiWBSSuxLw. There are tons more. You can even ignore everything about inverse kinematics/IK for now. Make or download a simple head or person any way you want, add an armature, do automatic weighting, then improve the weighting manually. Then come back to your dragon.

 

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15 hours ago, Quarrel Kukulcan said:

It could be a number of things. You might be in the wrong cursor mode. You might have selected some vertices (which means you can only paint those, not the rest). You might have locked that weight group. Unfortunately I can't say for sure. I don't actually think it's any of those based on what I can see in the UI, but you don't show all of it.

Separate question: you say you're assigning automatic weights. How? Did you just do it once when you originally parented the armature, or did you reassign them after every Edit Mode skeleton change?

And a suggestion. Set aside the dragon for a bit and go through some basic tutorials first. It will be easier, it will possibly be faster, and you will get a better end result. Aquila has posted one video already. I just found
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkiWBSSuxLw. There are tons more. You can even ignore everything about inverse kinematics/IK for now. Make or download a simple head or person any way you want, add an armature, do automatic weighting, then improve the weighting manually. Then come back to your dragon.

 

Hi @Quarrel Kukulcan Yes am familiar with this basic rigging in this video . As I said in previous posts dragon body is rigged  which I have animated and worked fine . The only problem i was having starting this thread was the teeth  originally when you moved the head these was left in place . Now this doesn't happen but the teeth at the front stay attached to top of mouth and the tongue no longer works  as it before all these additions . The eyeballs still do not rotate when you move relevant bone. However i am trying to get moth working first . Are there better positions for teeth? 

Selected is there current position of the teeth bones

babc648befc9a6bd66a2e22227666249.png

I have added a red-ring around the section of teeth which i believe is the problem below:

dd1b48ba95b8a547f91488db0ba6562d.png

 

 

Edited by VirtualKitten
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5 hours ago, VirtualKitten said:

Please see video for corner of the jaw

I really can't help you with weight painting. I just don't know enough about the subject especially when it comes to painting something as complex as the bento head.

 

 

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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You mentioned in an earlier post that when in weight paint mode the mesh is all black (instead of the expected blue). This could be because of the material you have assigned to the dragons skin. If this is the case then you could try opening the Viewport Shading drop-down and select the Single option instead of the default Material.

Screenshot_1-min.thumb.png.bc3edc88b036235a1c7cf757d3f1d338.png

 

And you may find if helpful to see the position of the vertices when weight painting. Viewport Overlays > Weight Paint > Show Wire :

Screenshot_2-min.thumb.png.e312df765b34d473c5d88a70ec264cac.png

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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On 4/17/2021 at 11:11 AM, VirtualKitten said:

Does anyone know my my teeth bones don't work? to encapsulate teeth in model when jaw moves ?

 

https://i.gyazo.com/e826692b4f0187d7e1d2b300285e5759.mp4

I may have found a solution to the problem with the teeth .

Check out the first half of this video :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLeiWgr6jV4

In the video he is assigning upper teeth to vertex group Headx where you will be assigning to mFaceTeeth Upper.

The same for lower teeth, assign them to vertex group mFaceTeethLower .

 

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Posted (edited)

I still need to get jaw working properly Aquila I don't now why it now takes in to much of the tongue it didn't before its now holding me up as have written all scripts to make this work and is clueless why it worked before now not now teeth and tongue and eyes are all in same vertex group i haven't altered yet

Edited by VirtualKitten
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On 4/18/2021 at 4:23 AM, Aquila Kytori said:

I may have found a solution to the problem with the teeth .

Check out the first half of this video :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLeiWgr6jV4

In the video he is assigning upper teeth to vertex group Headx where you will be assigning to mFaceTeeth Upper.

The same for lower teeth, assign them to vertex group mFaceTeethLower .

 

That is s a super helpful video @Aquila Kytori its the missing link x) I haven't  done that yet as was scripting something yesterday.

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1 hour ago, VirtualKitten said:

That is s a super helpful video @Aquila Kytori its the missing link x) I haven't  done that yet as was scripting something yesterday.

My guess is you need to follow that procedure for each of the following :

mFaceteethLower.

mFaceTeethUpper.

mFaceTongueBase.

Each of the eye bones (which ever one you have chosen to use).

On 4/10/2021 at 10:12 PM, Quarrel Kukulcan said:

(Eyeballs are easier to rig & weight manually than any other part of the face. That's good because automatic weighting won't get it right. Make the eyeball a perfect sphere. Put the eye bone base exactly at the center. The tip is generally pointed through the iris because that's intuitive. Weight every vertex in that eyeball at 1.0 to its bone and to nothing else. Done.)

 

and when you have done each of those then isolate the tongue and hand paint the tip of the tongue to mFaceTongueTip.

 

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13 hours ago, VirtualKitten said:

See video please

Your image is showing that when you select the vertex group mFaceTeethUpper it is selecting the upper teeth, which is correct.

Your video shows the mFaceUpperTeeth bone is not moving when you rotate the mFaceJaw bone, which is correct. But some of the upper teeth are moving along with the mFaceJaw bone.

This would suggest that some of the upper teeth are also weighted to one or more of the bones (vertex groups) that move when the mFaceJaw bone is rotated.

To check for this:

In Edit mode select a single vertex of one of the upper teeth that move with the mFaceJaw bone then open the properties side panel (N key) and in the Item menu > Vertex Weights check which vertex groups that vertex belongs to. Ideally it should only belong to mFaceTeethUpper and have a value of 1.00.

In the first image below you can see the SL avatar upper and lower teeth (with the rest of the head hidden). There is one vertex of the upper teeth mesh selected and we can see that it belongs only to the mFaceTeethUpper vertex group with a weight of 1.00 :

Screenshot_1-min.thumb.png.d9ce99d93dae3d8926331f41e50383e7.png

 

In the next screen-shot a single vertex of the lower teeth is selected and we see it belongs only to the mFaceTeethLower vertex group and has a weight of 1.00 :

Screenshot_2-min.thumb.png.ed08d6e847eafb83b748ddcdb4a8d853.png

so far so good  :)

But in the third screen-shot a different vertex of the lower teeth is selected and we see that it belongs to 2 vertex groups ! ! This is not good for the teeth at all. The teeth should belong to only one vertex group, mFaceTeethUpper or mFaceTeethLower.

Screenshot_3-min.thumb.png.161dbb324c25a1b1f10393364a942342.png

If when you do this check you find teeth vertices belonging to more than one vertex group then you will have to redo process shown in the video that I linked to earlier. Thats to say, select upper teeth vertices only and remove from all vertex groups then assign only to the mFaceTeethUpper vertex group.

 

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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Posted (edited)

Hi @Aquila Kytori  I dont have same options under item especially these vertex weights oddly  . can you assist Do you have something installed? I am quite concerned I don't have same items as you which blender version is the images from as this may have been moved elsewhere.

689c5fec28ef08499f287e168362dcb7.png

 

With teeth selected just shown everything else hidden.

d5e45e628b70c5b07ebfb5a49d360469.png

 

with mFaceJaw selected in the vertex list  under Vertex Groups in the panel if i deselect the teeth then select mFaceJaw and click select button none of the teeth are selected. I presume this means that the teeth are not weighted to the Jaw?

Tarah! I found the teeth  in mFaceLowerLipLeft, mFaceLowerLipRight, mFaceLipLowerCentre, mFaceLipUpperLeft, mFaceLipUpperRight, mFaceLipCornerLeft,  mFaceLipCornerRight, mFaceLipUpperCentre.mFaceEyeCornerInnerLeft.   I had to go down list deselect all and select the vertex groups each one at a time . Wow that's a lot!

How do i remove the teeth from these can i select teeth and click vertex group and deselect button to remove them from each of the vertex groups ? This seems from what you suggested an am eager to learn!

 

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1 hour ago, VirtualKitten said:

Hi @Aquila Kytori  I dont have same options under item especially these vertex weights oddly  . can you assist Do you have something installed? I am quite concerned I don't have same items as you which blender version is the images from as this may have been moved elsewhere.

You are not paying enough attention to the replies you get.

14 hours ago, Aquila Kytori said:

In Edit mode select a single vertex of one of the upper teeth that move with the mFaceJaw bone then open the properties side panel (N key) and in the Item menu > Vertex Weights check which vertex groups that vertex belongs to.

I will repeat, Select a single vertex ...........

In Edit mode and vertex select mode, select a single vertex.

Your image is showing that you are in face select mode !! and with lots of geometry selected !!

Face select mode, the Vertex Weights are not shown in the properties side panel, see first image below:

911910045_Faceselect-min.thumb.png.5aca2c566200f837dacff484a10b850a.png

 

Change to vertex select mode, select a single vertex and the Vertex Weights are visible. See screen-shot below :

1875506588_vertexselect-min.thumb.png.f643f761fdf8883970bc29383eaacc0b.png

Note that if you have more then one vertex selected then the Vertex Weights groups and values are for the last vertex that was selected, (the active vertex).

 

1 hour ago, VirtualKitten said:

How do i remove the teeth from these can i select teeth and click vertex group and deselect button to remove them from each of the vertex groups ? This seems from what you suggested an am eager to learn!

Again you are in to much of a hurry and miss the important bits. Watch the video that I linked to for the process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLeiWgr6jV4

 

 

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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Hi this is getting so interesting with the vertext groups I can select areas in weight screen and see lots wrong  with eye parts which the system has selected through auto weights a larger area i am presuming these need adjustment. Should for example the  mFaceEyeBrowCentre  not select eye  and just the eyebrow center ? these weights are going to be a bit finicky so i will select how i am in vertex area 8fc9d11e142c5025d174b75385961dd4.png

I fixed eyeball but am wondering if this should be just one face above the eye not what was given:
496d3894648fa00e9d7f9b74c82c4215.png

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