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PROPOSAL= RIGGING POSE AND EDIT MODE WOES DO NOT REFLECT EDIT IN OTHER MODE.


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Posted (edited)

Its really the lips and chin i need a zoom in on and the eyes please. I hope it looks ok above so far its slow work to get symmetry correct. I can see why this is a long work think . I haven't event ventured much into animation yet and that is fraught with problems my first model  acted ok in blender and jelly in Second life I think this was it used the reset-position to animate therefore everything was done without rest of bones I am guess  this  was why it was jelly as don't have enough experience with animating yet  it yet to know. Its a steep learning curve and i thank everyone for there comments so far and help kisses.

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The first screenshot below shows you how to first remove all the vertex groups from all the vertices of the lower teeth :   And the next screenshot shows you how Assign the lower teeth

Basically. There is no easy way to use both. If you weight an eyeball to both the system bone and the alt bone, it will play a blend of a half-strength system animation and a half-strength custom anim

I just played with it some in 2.92. You don't need to hide anything. (You can if you want to. It can make the important parts easier to see and click on.) Select just the bones you want to re-do

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12 hours ago, Aquila Kytori said:

Download one of the two files I linked you to and then you can take the exact screenshots that you need.

The second file will open exactly as you see in the screenshot above. 🙂

I did download it many thanks for sharing it was very kind of you but require two different views from front  the  mouth and lips . They don't zoom up  to show clear names as the overlap and could you help with  a clear image of the eyes  as have some strange bones to add in like mFaceEyeAltLeft etc a view from the front might be helpful please ?

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30 minutes ago, VirtualKitten said:

I did download it many thanks for sharing it was very kind of you but require two different views from front  the  mouth and lips . They don't zoom up  to show clear names as the overlap and could you help with  a clear image of the eyes  as have some strange bones to add in like mFaceEyeAltLeft etc a view from the front might be helpful please ?

Okay, okay. What do you want here? Do you just not want to move the camera yourself and make screenshots? Is there some other issue? I'm very confused.

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Posted (edited)

@FinnfinnLost I need a closer pic of the bones in the eyes of the human face eyes as its clear some bones not all . Also the moth lips please and face

shapers for cheeks thank you so much for your help

Edited by VirtualKitten
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This is how the Lip bones are positioned in the human head :

1611280681_BentoUpperandLowerLipbones-min.thumb.png.1a615e97418553b6f335cdf3fb40161b.png

 

Note how the bones are radiating out from inside of the mouth/head :

1374024864_Lipsbonessideview-min.thumb.png.65229dbe877ef87d172877ee74502c23.png

 

And note how it is only the tips of each bone that protrudes through the surface of the mesh :

574358410_LipsTipsofbones-min.thumb.png.3d8b150de05bec2d61f208a1c04d0c9d.png

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@VirtualKitten The only time I have tried rigging was about 5 years ago when I followed a YouTube tutorial on how to rig a robot dog. So you know more about his than I do :)

 But I would like to make an observation about how you have your dragons nose bones orientated . You appear to have those bones positioned almost horizontally across the front (surface) of the nose of the dragon?

1037019478_Dragonnosebones-min.thumb.png.757a9f92d3833e696475695b68b61276.png

  In the human head, these nose bones, like the lip bones, are orientated with the base of each bone inside the head and only the  tip of the bone  at the surface of the mesh. See screenshots below :

812762912_NoseBones-min.thumb.png.a8232beb800bc55fced9ba4b87d6028b.png

 

Side view :

2033510173_NoseBonessideview-min.thumb.png.16fbee2bf771cafb3452552fe66e085f.png

 

And the tips of the bones protruding through the surface of the mesh :

60320504_NoseBonesTips-min.thumb.png.7f4683c870dd2989b0282e946c9bdbdb.png

 

Perhaps we could ask @FinnfinnLost to comment on the orientation of your dragons nose bones?

 

48 minutes ago, VirtualKitten said:

I just need human face positions for the inner corner eye and the alt eye bones which are confusing

See the screenshots in my previous post :)

 

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, Aquila Kytori said:

 But I would like to make an observation about how you have your dragons nose bones orientated . You appear to have those bones positioned almost horizontally across the front (surface) of the nose of the dragon?

That's great i don't mind comments I welcome these . I am new to this its on a dragon s has a pronounced nose how do you think these should go please? I hope Finn would not minding to help either I have put lips in I welcome any help with positions or anything you feel might help?

22b0d970ff306e4423514bf111ec5d50.png

 

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1 hour ago, VirtualKitten said:

@Aquila KytoriI note you have MFaceAltEyeLeft where I have MEyeLeft what is the difference please and were is yours on your image?

They go in the same place as each other, and you only rig your mesh to one pair or the other depending on how you want your eyeballs to behave.

The mEyeLeft and mEyeRight bones are controlled entirely by Second Life. If you've ever noticed how default avatar eyes flick around and follow your cursor, well, that's what your mesh eyeballs will do if you weight them to these bones. They are immune to custom animations.

The mFaceAltEyeLeft and mFaceAltEyeRight bones are normal animation bones. Weight your eyeballs to these instead if you want full manual control of their movements. (The downside is you have to create and play animations for them or your eyes will just stare in one direction all the time.)

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Posted (edited)

@Aquila KytoriI n Ok does this mean you cant use both at same time ? Oh I see i didn't see that line so one  must choose oh dear , what would yo suggest as am new to animation and watched some of the dragon movies on youtube and there is a lot to move

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5 minutes ago, VirtualKitten said:

@Aquila KytoriI n Ok does this mean you cant use both at same time ?

Basically. There is no easy way to use both. If you weight an eyeball to both the system bone and the alt bone, it will play a blend of a half-strength system animation and a half-strength custom animation. That will probably look bad.

The simplest solution is to use just one bone pair and ignore the other.

Combining automatic and manual eye motion needs complicated trickery. One option might be weighting to both bones and building your custom animations so the bones rotate twice as far as you want so they look right when only half the angle happens. Another possibility is creating two eyeballs in the same position (one using the system bone, one using the alt bone) and then making one of them invisible, with some scripting and a HUD to switch to the other when you want.

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@Aquila KytoriI  I have already scripted it so that is no real problem to change i will just up number of links i presume .. You remember i bought a model and had a bad seller so have the bulking of scripting completed that model flew and animesh walked . It is my purpose to try and make it for my family the same but as with fire.  I am more fanatical about getting my bones correct having learned a lot of tricks this week :)and my mesh bones was not quite right with resect to torso and spine i don't think my eyes function at all but i have not got so far as weighting aa model yet and that is another huge hurdle to get over. I am presuming i should also allow a link to sit on as a seat or two for two to sit   I have already added one for fire ball.  Does the face bones look ok I still have a few spare and am wondering if i should duplicate the eyes as well however this will add more complication to weight painting i guess?

Thank again D
 

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15 hours ago, FinnfinnLost said:

Looking at the bento reference, it could work. I'd say rig it and play with the pose a bit. For testing purposes, automatic weights should give you a rough idea.

@FinnfinnLost , Thanks Finn, I think most of the rest of the rig is working as been checking it and refining it as i went along . Tts just always been these facial areas I don't have several bones allocated at present:

I still have these not used and without a place to plant them:
mFaceAltEyeLeft  ,mFaceAltEyeRight  ( Used for animation) , mFaceCheekLowerLeft, mFaceCheekLowerRight, mFaceCheekUpperLeft, mFaceCheekUpperRight,

mFaceJawShaper,

I don't think this will place the jaw teeth, tongue  and eyes working I think these maybe need weight painting?

does this look about right for left eye please?

 50910a3b1a8f43caf0828d7b22d35a98.png

Any suggestions appreciated kiss

Edited by VirtualKitten
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4 hours ago, VirtualKitten said:

@FinnfinnLost , Thanks Finn, I think most of the rest of the rig is working as been checking it and refining it as i went along . Tts just always been these facial areas I don't have several bones allocated at present:

I still have these not used and without a place to plant them:
mFaceAltEyeLeft  ,mFaceAltEyeRight  ( Used for animation) , mFaceCheekLowerLeft, mFaceCheekLowerRight, mFaceCheekUpperLeft, mFaceCheekUpperRight,

mFaceJawShaper,

I don't think this will place the jaw teeth, tongue  and eyes working I think these maybe need weight painting?

does this look about right for left eye please?

 50910a3b1a8f43caf0828d7b22d35a98.png

Any suggestions appreciated kiss

Always kinda difficult to tell from screenshots alone. We can't really see where exactly those bones are.

From here it looks like the eyebrows aren't all that well placed, especially eyebrow inner? Bit at a loss here. Not all that experienced with rigging either.

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2 hours ago, FinnfinnLost said:

Always kinda difficult to tell from screenshots alone. We can't really see where exactly those bones are.

From here it looks like the eyebrows aren't all that well placed, especially eyebrow inner? Bit at a loss here. Not all that experienced with rigging either.

Is this any better @FinnfinnLost

 c05ead7653c963727aa4159e2fc7da34.png

 

Edited by VirtualKitten
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3 hours ago, VirtualKitten said:

Am not sure how else to know how to show it to you

 

You could make a copy of the relevant part of the head and paste it into a new .blend file.(See image below). The bones should automatically be included in the file.

Then upload it to this Blender file sharing page so that we can take a look ourselves.  https://pasteall.org/blend/

Screenshot_1-min.thumb.png.54e373609e584e2c42c46f5a1a8156c6.png

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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1 hour ago, VirtualKitten said:

how do i make a copy of just that part please? Including the  bones

First save your .blend file :)

 

The process is to select, then copy and paste into a new .blend file :

  1. In Edit mode select as much of the geometry around one of the eyes as you can.
  2. Use the key board shortcut Shft + D to make a copy of the selected geometry.
  3. With the geometry still selected hit the P key to open the Separate menu and choose the option Selection. This will separate it into a new object.
  4. In Object mode select only this new object then use Ctrl + C to copy it to "clipboard".

Next is to paste it into a new .blend file,

  1. File > New General > ( Don't save ) and a new .blend will open.
  2. Delete the default cube.
  3. Paste in the Eye geometry with Ctrl + V  .  The bones will be included with the mesh object.
  4. Save this new .blend and upload to https://pasteall.org/blend/
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